princey Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Hey Miaxi and Super, how about using spoiler tags? Like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superawesomerman Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Hey Miaxi and Super, how about using spoiler tags? Like this. OOps, did I spoil something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansultares Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 On the other hand, the only reason I would have run Scholomance more than one was because the loot I wanted never dropped.Why would you ever accept hallway dungeon design? I'd gladly take Scholo over any FP I've run so far, especially after the second or third time running it, and Scholo isn't even a top5 vanilla dungeon, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohpleasework Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I don't personally see how that blog post was any more illuminating than any random forum post. Just a random collection of opinions. The only point I mildly agree with was his or her critique of the Jedi Knight - it wasn't for me either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grucho Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Sad bad true, I had such high hopes with this game Nothing to do, nothing to strive for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inixus Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 indeed, sad but true Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monkgryphon Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Clearly you didn't even read the article. All the points he makes are valid, completely level-headed and fair. What is level-headed and fair when his opening line is: "but it appears my suspicions were correct" An idea of failure will present yourself with failure. If you expect something to be bad, you're going to look beyond what is good about something, even if it is a VAST majority, just to find the little things that make it bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falkenhausen Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Disagree with 90% of the link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synamon Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 http://www.keenandgraev.com/2012/02/14/copy-gold-leader-out/ I haven't been keeping up closely with these guys. But Keen is uncannily right in his perceptions a vast majority of the time. Besides his assessments, in addition I can not tolerate the bugs and poor design elements which just make you wonder about the designers professionalism, if not their talent. Also the general game management structure and failure of proper public relations and in game support. It was great while it lasted and save something biblical in effect to change how the game plays and feels, I do not see this title lasting. I'll hang out a while longer, probably go back to an older title like DDO.. I'm sure they've added content by now.. Right on the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arigo Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 This is definitely a game I'll only be playing for a couple months - if that. I just expected so much more for the time and money that was supposedly put into it. I think I found where all the game making talent went, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KennethHoover Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Your typical gamers nowadays are entitled, self-important, generally immature (at least as far as their public persona goes), unrealistic, and have no idea what they want out of a game. This isn't a troll or "rude behavior", it's just what I notice on a regular basis. ^^This. A thousand times this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synamon Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 This is definitely a game I'll only be playing for a couple months - if that. I just expected so much more for the time and money that was supposedly put into it. I think I found where all the game making talent went, though. That also just shows one of the flaws that is present in SWTOR, the lack of life in the world. It's the little things in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemmar Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) http://www.keenandgraev.com/2012/02/14/copy-gold-leader-out/ I haven't been keeping up closely with these guys. But Keen is uncannily right in his perceptions a vast majority of the time. Besides his assessments, in addition I can not tolerate the bugs and poor design elements which just make you wonder about the designers professionalism, if not their talent. Also the general game management structure and failure of proper public relations and in game support. It was great while it lasted and save something biblical in effect to change how the game plays and feels, I do not see this title lasting. I'll hang out a while longer, probably go back to an older title like DDO.. I'm sure they've added content by now.. Alright mister OP. I will bite. Questing Too repetitive At first the story disguises the grind, but when you’ve reached the 5th planet giving you the same cliche story arcs, it’s hard to suspend disbelief. The writing for a lot of the quests was bad. Too boring, maintaining a very generic feel. Opinion. Many people disagree and think the opposite. Also, lack of comparison. Where is the MMo that has done this better and whose questing you didnt even read the text of? Biased unfactual view. Replayability I have no desire to make alts. Maybe this falls under questing. I can’t do it again. Only a few of the classes felt fun or interesting, and the mirrors were a little too obvious. I can’t, for example, go play a Juggernaut after playing a Guardian. They are the same thing. Ridiculous claim. Yes, juggernaut and guardian are mirrored classes. Lets just ignore that there are 8 advanced classes that are completely different from each other added to 24 different specs to play, all with their different style. Crafting In many ways, pointless. Only Biochem and maybe Cybertech are useful. No meaningful connection between players. Crafting is pretty much a solo experience. When was crafting about a conection between players? Crafting in other games = powerlevel lvl 1 to 400 through the auction house for a passive buff and dont touch it ever again. SWTOR = you have to actually take your time. Its easy to lvl but its not something you can powerlevel in a coupleof hours. You get rewards at high level, you have to craft and reverse engineer to get better versions of the recipes and to have a chance to creat items with augments in them = engaging and reason to keep crafting after hitting max level. What is this guy drinking? I dont know, but it sounds prety potent. Dungeons All but the first dungeon felt very boring to me. I couldn’t bring myself to do them more than once. They didn’t have that replayability factor that WoW dungeons had — I could run Scholomance a dozen times but I cringe thinking about running a SWTOR dungeon. Another biased view. Scholomance was the boredom of the world, and none of the SWTOR flashpoints feel that way. The only reason he repeated it so often was because there was no other way to get gear at the time, and the drop rates were dire, as they still are today on WoW. On SWTOR, the FP's are always garanteed to give you a tier 2 token at their end. Also, from personal experience, nothing in WoW comes close to the epicness of the Foundry and the false emperor flashpoints. Not even close. End-game PvE and PvP Gear treadmills aren’t fun for me. I don’t like the Expertise stat at all. Ever heard of resilience on WoW? Same thing. If the stat wasnt there, the PvE'rs would dominate the PvP world with their gear. PvP would be pointless by itself. Gear treadmills arent for him, yet he claimed just above to have ran Scholomance countless times. Go figure. How the game feels Combat feels off for me as a Jedi Knight. There’s a disconnect somewhere. Maybe a delay, maybe a GCD issue, maybe the animations. It’s not quite “WoW in space” because I think SWTOR falls short of what WoW achieved in the ‘feel’ department. For what it is, WoW has a lot of depth (which might sound like an oxymoron because themeparks do not have a lot of depth) and SWTOR did not capture the player in any sense of “world”. The game actually felt closer to Warhammer Online’s truncated questing hubs. There not even a justification for this opinion. He might've said pigs rained from the Sky. SWTOR is not a "world" its a galaxy. This concept seems hard to grasp to people to held back by WoW. The combat is one of the two things that give this game issues. It is great fun, but skills failing seems to happen ocasionally in the heat of battle. It can be annoying. The combat delay itself i no longer feel anything. WoW's combat is very tight, but it is also not very fun in comparison with SWTOR's. The reason why are the animations and the way you can move through the 3D envyronment. For example charges are limited to flat surfaces on WoW and on SWTOR you can charge anywhere you got a line of sight on. This makes the combat incredibly more fun. Community There isn’t a community at all. This feels like a single-player game. I rarely saw another player while leveling. People are just crammed into the station. No one needs to communicate with or interact with other players on any level. Players do not have to rely on each other. Essentially there is no “massively multiplayer” feel. This claim is beyond ridiculous. The problem here is not the game but this kind of player. If you want to be anti-social, you can be. But how are you gonna get into flashpoints? How are you gonna do those heroic group quests without relying on others? How are you gonna do those raids or Win those PvP matches? This also ignores the fact that SWTOR's landmass is massive and many times that of other MMO's, wich obviously spreads out the user base. More ridiculous is saying there is no community. The community is very tight. I know many of the great PvPrs on my server by name, just cause i grouped with them sometimes. Same thing happens on Illum when you're farming armaments or doing world PvP or when running flashpoints or raids pugging. Again, if one chooses to be anti-social, one can only blame oneself. No one will force you to play the game content beyong the leveling. In retrospect, there is only one legitimate claim in there and one that isnt there wich are the bugs. If this is your opinion, then the problem doesnt reside with the game, but with you. Edited February 28, 2012 by Nemmar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arigo Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 That also just shows one of the flaws that is present in SWTOR, the lack of life in the world. It's the little things in life. Yes. They fell short in a lot of ways for me and the immersion factor is a big one. This game is for a specific type of customer. Games like this will continue to be made and they will do well with the demographic they are after. And that is fine. Fortunately, it looks like there are some games on the way that appeal more to the type of game I'm looking for. This passes the time for now and just makes me more aware of what I want out of my MMORPGs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silarr Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I think I found where all the game making talent went, though. Yep that feels about right. Immersion is a very important thing for mmos.. WoW had it for me, Warhammer had it in some extend (I miss my goblin)... I mean I like Star Wars and all, but I can't stop laughing when I visit a base that is said to be heavily contested and it has a small wall that anyone could jump over and like a blaster canon protecting it.. This Star wars Universe isn't very well thought after all (I mean you got holograms but you have to run miles through lifeless landscapes to get back to the questgiver... Contracts can't be that expensive, gas costs like 70 bucks to travel from one planet to another). In the end I might not be a sci-fi type of guy, but I think Star Wars could be represented in a better fashion than what is provided in this game.. On another note, wow does guild wars look good, even on lowest settings.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocNessMonster Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Just another "I love WOW" **** blog written by some kid just trying to drum up hits for a no name website. The entire blog is just flamebait. How about explaining why he dislikes some features instead of some generalizing comment? This guy is just a poor writer and I has bored before I got through the first paragraph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zilliztra Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Good read. And I agree with most points. The game has no staying power. When you are done with the story, you are litterally DONE, there is nothing to do at level 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fardarter Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I signed up for a 90 day at launch but I havent played in weeks maybe a month by now. I want this game to succeed and I follow the patches from afar. My number one concern is that the dev team isn't moving quickly enough to fix/add/improve the game. I have read about the hero engine and how it apparently is limited. It really doesn't matter. I was hoping by now that the dev team would be ramping up patching but that doesn't seem to be the case. Where is the massive patch that addresses a multitude of issues or adds desperately needed endgame content? The argument that the game is brand new loses credibility with each passing day. I hope they can get it right but I will not be paying to see it happen. I already feel like I wasted money on a 90 day sub, shame on me. I have been playing rift lately and it seems swtor players are returning to that game in droves (like myself), seeing the additions to that game and the timeframe in which that team pumps out content it just highlights SWTOR's sluggishness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texicon Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I just want swtor to be half as popular as WoW so I can sell my CE that is collecting dust. On an on topic note...I agree with most of what the article said...but I hate WoW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inixus Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 This is definitely a game I'll only be playing for a couple months - if that. I just expected so much more for the time and money that was supposedly put into it. I think I found where all the game making talent went, though. so awsome!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Just another "I love WOW" **** blog written by some kid just trying to drum up hits for a no name website. The entire blog is just flamebait. How about explaining why he dislikes some features instead of some generalizing comment? This guy is just a poor writer and I has bored before I got through the first paragraph. That pretty much exactly what it is. I'd even bet the OP is one of them or a friend of the site. If you go back and read his earlier posts he seems to know too much about the personal lives of the site hosts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicalPremise Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Ah, yes, random unhappy blogger. So, if what the guy is saying isn't important, why is there a FIFTY FOUR PAGE thread on his "ranting"? At some point, a definition of the importance of opinion-based criticism has to be made. For a moment, all the fanboys just need to shut up and entertain -- however briefly -- a concept alien to their central argument. This game cannot be evaluated on "it's own merits" when so much is mirrored from other games. Bioware did not market this game as anything like a story-based casual experience. They had videos touting PVP and end-game and their first major release content after the game launch was MORE end-game content. The bulk of their fixes and adjustments thus far have been to the engine, the PVP, balancing, crafting, and raids. The PVP maps and many of the class designs are much like WoW. That is not a matter of "opinion" , but fact. The concept of "level --> PVP and Raiding" is the same endgame formula as WoW (and other games like it). IF Bioware had done something innovative and come up with another form of end-game, the point that comparing it to WoW would be valid. IF Bioware had come up with a unique class design that did not marry WoW and WAR in some unholy union , then the QQ about the game being just like WoW would have less weight. IF Bioware had made story part of the END game experience, then you could say the game was about the story. They did not. That is not a criticism (I would not bother with such a game, nor would many) but merely a fact. Opinion pieces like this are, for the most part, worthless garbage when it comes to objective criticism of a game. Everyone has an opinion and everyone's opinion is meaningless regardless of what it is. Like, dislike, love, hate --- you're either paying the sub (and thus supporting it) or not paying a sub (and thus no one cares what you say). On the other hand, opinion pieces usually end up encapsulating what some people's frustrations are with the game. There's a group of people who are very happy with the game and play it every day. I think these people are having a blast and obviously like what they are seeing. That in no way invalidates the point that there are other people who are *not happy*. If we are going to dismiss opinion then at least do it for the right reasons. Saying that it's invalid or "biased" because he compares it to WoW simply denies reality - he compares it to WoW because of far too many similarities that anyone who isn't biased can discount. Likewise, the grognard line of "all today's gamers are whiney" is a strawman -- if a "whiny" player has a valid complaint does it lose it's validity just because he complains a lot? Dismiss the opinion piece on factual errors, sure. Dismiss it as the ranting of a person who probably unsubbed and has no skin in the game, fine. But ignoring what was brought up with a sniff of disdain doesn't work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killowatt Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 It's funny people are complaining about being to easy... and how the quest tracker points you to everywhere... well I was just in a beta and the quests had no tracking unless you went in and clicked to turn it on... and low and behold on the forums there was crying because some hadn't figured out how to turn the tracking on... their comments were PLEASE make quest objectives easier to find...I DON"T WANT TO LOOK FOR MEANINGLESS QUEST ITEMS.... So which is it? Oh wait that's right no matter how anything is implemented in any game..for some how ever it's implemented in the game they are currently playing it's wrong and either to easy or to hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killowatt Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 And another thing.. I see people complain about fixes not coming fast enought.. well low and behold in Rift they patch like mad men... and guess what... People complain... **** why must you hotfix and patch all the times.. GEEZ just stop and put it all in a patch.. No win ever.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quraswren Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) SNIP.... The blog was made by some random unhappy WOW fan and SWTOR is stealing some of there thunder or they just wanted to jump in the banwagon of SW haters to drive up there own website traffic. I whole - hardheartedly believe the OP is a friend of or is actually one of the bloggers trying to drive up his site traffic. Which he has probably been successful at doing but that also makes me want to report the thread. Either way, The reason this thread is this long is people love drama and especially so for forums, thats all this thread is. Drama, Drama, Drama... Edited February 28, 2012 by Quraswren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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