Holden_Dissent Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I've come to realize this must be the case after reading so many anecdotes about current WoW. Which is a shame, because vanilla WoW questing was great if you had enough attention span to notice it. Does current WoW have advanced quest tracker as a default UI? It's really a terrible feature that never should have been adopted by the industry. Pretty sure that it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superawesomerman Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I've come to realize this must be the case after reading so many anecdotes about current WoW. Which is a shame, because vanilla WoW questing was great if you had enough attention span to notice it. Does current WoW have advanced quest tracker as a default UI? It's really a terrible feature that never should have been adopted by the industry. /facepalm How do you justify saying something like "it's about getting exactly what they want, when they want it and if they don't, they throw a fit about it," and then say you're satisfied with this game? It literally throws everything at you, at zero difficulty level; no gameplay challenge, no burden of knowledge, nothing but being handed rewards just for showing up. Agreed, vanilla wow levelling was way more challenging because it didnt have this built in. its also why there weren't really many complaints about,lack of endgame, because endgame took a while to get to. Vanilla wow was loads of fun, heh. This old guy might have a genuine point. Im giving him a chance to elaborate before he burns in the fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansultares Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Pretty sure that it does.Terrible terrible shame... What idiot keeps popping up suggesting this thing? I'm sure it polls well and metrics suggest its widespread adoption by Burning Crusade, but all it reflects is that people are lazy; it's like being the guy who supplies 30,000 calories a day worth of food to the 900+lb. person who can't get off the bed any longer. People want to know what happened to story in MMOs? It was stunlocked 100-0'd by advanced quest tracker; force feeding it through cutscenes is not an adequate substitute (though cutscenes would be a nice addition to a well presented story). This old guy might have a genuine point. Im giving him a chance to elaborate before he burns in the fire.I suppose he could just be a huge KOTOR fan. I've heard some say that they view this as a SPRPG with optional online content and comparatively frequent content updates (admittedly at a much higher cost), which I could see being something you might want after solidly playing through the entire SPRPG genre. Edited February 27, 2012 by Ansultares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superawesomerman Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 He points out issues without realising the reason: 1. no social interactions. - Why? Becouse social mechanics are like half-done... whispers doesnt take players attention due to no sound notification, /say chat doesnt get any attention due to no chat bubbles, so people basically dont see other people talking... everything is so speechless. 2. there is some "disconnect" in the feel of the game and the player - Why? The camera is awkward, so you cant feel like you would be there. You are being reminded you are just looking trough 3rd person camera which bugs out and is being lagged (read: smoothed) and also force you to look in single direction when you are running/driving. - Another reason? Sure, the targeting mechanic is also totally awkward and reminds player he is only playing a game... a broken game in addition and onlty trying to controll his character. Kind of reminds player he is a paying beta tester. No way to immerse into game athmoshpere with such a gigantic flaws most of players cant pin-point and simply say "something is wrong". Hence they dont give enough attention on forums, hence devs dont give a damn. Closed circle of awkward development. Bioware made a giant fail in those department and still refuse to admit camera is a problem, and call "chat bubbles" not a priority thing for mmorpg... Amateurs. Disagree with 1, huge agree with 2. 1 is more a problem with pop and game design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loupe Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 How on earth did this troll thread hit 50 pages? At its heart its not a troll thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden_Dissent Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I agree. The quest tracker really simplifies things to a very dumb level. Follow the pointer, click the thing, follow the pointer. It really takes away from challenge, immersion, and exploration. Anyone seen Mankrik's wife? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansultares Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Anyone seen Mankrik's wife?This, exactly. It really takes away from challenge, immersion, and exploration.Not only does it do so directly, but eventually developers begin to design around it, so it's a compounding problem. Edited February 27, 2012 by Ansultares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superawesomerman Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Terrible terrible shame... What idiot keeps popping up suggesting this thing? I'm sure it polls well and metrics suggest its widespread adoption by Burning Crusade, but all it reflects is that people are lazy; it's like being the guy who supplies 30,000 calories a day worth of food to the 900+lb. person who can't get off the bed any longer. People want to know what happened to story in MMOs? It was stunlocked 100-0'd by advanced quest tracker; force feeding it through cutscenes is not an adequate substitute (though cutscenes would be a nice addition to a well presented story). I suppose he could just be a huge KOTOR fan. I've heard some say that they view this as a SPRPG with optional online content and comparatively frequent content updates (admittedly at a much higher cost), which I could see being something you might want after solidly playing through the entire SPRPG genre. im of the opinion that single player in this game is fairly trash. The story is merely ok, the storytelling is,very very bland. The characters are either hackneyed, annoying, or forgettable. The dialogue is forgettable. The setting is bland. If you think swtor single player is good, id point you to any number of other games like system shock, portal, Mass effect, fear, any number of other games with vastly more satisfying stories, characters, and settings. Multiplayer is really what you make of it, but bioware sure isnt making it any easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herboss Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Agree with everything in the article except for the dungeons, I haven't repeatedly done dungeons as I'm more of a PVP'er but I've enjoyed all the ones I've done. The boss fights have been reasonably enjoyable BUT pretty boring between boss fights. The one EV hardmode run I did was also reasonably fun with varied bosses. I do however hate that EVERY SINGLE BOSS enrages, it just seems like an extremely cheap way of doing things. The combat doesn't flow at all and feels pretty bad which is a major turn off, global cooldowns are such a terrible terrible idea and makes combat feel clunky and unresponsive. The game engine itself is, from what I've seen, THE WORST MMO engine available, whoever decided on this engine for SWTOR has a lot to answer for. Having played in the last few Tera Online betas I could only imagine how awesome SWTOR could have been using this engine, it looks a millions times better and runs a million times better than this POS. SWTOR, what could have been.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superawesomerman Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Agree with everything in the article except for the dungeons, I haven't repeatedly done dungeons as I'm more of a PVP'er but I've enjoyed all the ones I've done. The boss fights have been reasonably enjoyable BUT pretty boring between boss fights. The one EV hardmode run I did was also reasonably fun with varied bosses. I do however hate that EVERY SINGLE BOSS enrages, it just seems like an extremely cheap way of doing things. The combat doesn't flow at all and feels pretty bad which is a major turn off, global cooldowns are such a terrible terrible idea and makes combat feel clunky and unresponsive. The game engine itself is, from what I've seen, THE WORST MMO engine available, whoever decided on this engine for SWTOR has a lot to answer for. Having played in the last few Tera Online betas I could only imagine how awesome SWTOR could have been using this engine, it looks a millions times better and runs a million times better than this POS. SWTOR, what could have been.... Boss enrages are a way to increase the value of good dps. otherwise, you could just run tanks and healers. There are other methods though, adds, burn phases, doomsday spells w/ shield,etc. Globals are a necessary evil to prevent you from flooding the server bandwidth. Trust me, you want global cooldowns. Still awaiting a response from the geezer, where did you go? Edited February 27, 2012 by Superawesomerman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LanceUpercutt Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I agree. The quest tracker really simplifies things to a very dumb level. Follow the pointer, click the thing, follow the pointer. It really takes away from challenge, immersion, and exploration. Anyone seen Mankrik's wife? pretty sure you can just turn off the tracking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herboss Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Boss enrages are a way to increase the value of good dps. otherwise, you could just run tanks and healers. There are other methods though, adds, burn phases, doomsday spells w/ shield,etc.Exactly, enrage on EVERY boss just seems lazy. Globals are a necessary evil to prevent you from flooding the server bandwidth. Trust me, you want global cooldowns.Having played a few other MMO's this is the first one I've ever played with this horrible horrible global cooldown crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princey Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) One point I do agree on, up to a certain point that is, is the design of the Flashpoints after Black Talon / Esseles. They are seriously lacking any story. BW sets a high expectation with how well BT and Ess are then drops it on the floor for everything else. I again suspect that the final game was something like version 2.5 of how it played and that scrapping the old versions cost them all their time but that's just a supposition on my part. Have you done any flashpoints past Cademimu? The game has 16 flashpoints, 6 are what the devs call "Story light" and 10 are "Story Heavy". They are admittedly regretful of the order that they put them in, though. You start with the story heavy BT/Esseles, then have to slog through 4 story light flashpoints before getting back into story heavy with Boarding Party/Taral V and Foundry/Maelstrom. Most of the flashpoints are story heavy, though. Edited February 28, 2012 by princey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superawesomerman Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Have you done any flashpoints past Cademimu? The game has 16 flashpoints, 6 are what the devs call "Story light" and 10 are "Story Heavy". They are admittedly regretful of the order that they put them in, though. You start with the story heavy BT/Esseles, then have to slog through 4 story light flashpoints before getting back into story heavy with Boarding Party/Taral V and Foundry/Maelstrom. Most of the flashpoints are story heavy, though. Esseles was good. Taral 9 / maelstrom were ... Ok. Directive 7 was decent. Kaon under siege was terrible. the last fight in hm false emperor waa fun. the rest of the fps I dont remember, and I did them all at least once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princey Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Esseles was good. Taral 9 / maelstrom were ... Ok. Directive 7 was decent. Kaon under siege was terrible. the last fight in hm false emperor waa fun. the rest of the fps I dont remember, and I did them all at least once. Doesn't really matter if you like the stories in them or not. That's subjective. The person I quoted said that all the flashpoints after BT/Esseles were "seriously lacking any story", which isn't true. Only six of the sixteen flashpoints are light on story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superawesomerman Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Doesn't really matter if you like the stories in them or not. That's subjective. The person I quoted said that all the flashpoints after BT/Esseles were "seriously lacking any story", which isn't true. Only six of the sixteen flashpoints are light on story. That seems like an unnecessary amount of hair splitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinthinner Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) At its heart its not a troll thread. yeah it is. The url posted in the start of it all is a half-baked opinion piece with no real basis in reality aside from feeeeeeeeeelings of the person wanting to very much not like TOR from how the page read. It reeked of blatant bias in the fact that most of what is stated can be, and is, applicable across all other MMOs in production.... TOR fps are horrendous, yet Scholomance is mentioned as being able to be ran multiple times... with no issues.... righhhht. bah. drivel and fan fiction at best. Edited February 28, 2012 by skinthinner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
princey Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 That seems like an unnecessary amount of hair splitting. Refuting something that isn't true with objective fact is hair splitting. ooookay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mecher Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Shocked this barely covered up troll thread hasn't been locked yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superawesomerman Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Refuting something that isn't true with objective fact is hair splitting. ooookay Heh, im pretty sure the "interesting story" was implied, but I concede your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypsezero Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I actually think a lot of the problems that gamers are having nowadays is they aren't willing to put up with games being pushed out for money making before they are done. This game doesn't even have the BASICS. No need to go past that. Basics are what are needed to be able to play the game. Over a million people do. So I would say the game has the basics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miaxi Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) They have some points. Putting every sith inquisitor on the dark council and promoting every sith warrior to the emperor's wrath was a bit too much. On the other hand, the only reason I would have run Scholomance more than one was because the loot I wanted never dropped. Edited February 28, 2012 by Miaxi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superawesomerman Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) They have some points. Putting every sith inquisitor on the dark council and promoting every sith warrior to the emperor's wrath was a bit too much. On the other hand, the only reason I would have run Scholomance more than one was because the loot I wanted never dropped. Shrug, every jedi knight kills the emperor. Overlap like that is expected, I suppose. I remember when scholo was an epic 4 hour adventure, lol. Edited February 28, 2012 by Aurrelio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waxninja Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I agree. The quest tracker really simplifies things to a very dumb level. Follow the pointer, click the thing, follow the pointer. It really takes away from challenge, immersion, and exploration. Anyone seen Mankrik's wife? I concur but i dont forsee any going bak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superawesomerman Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Oh, the hypocrisy. On a less troll note, you gave a vast game history and you find this game entertaining? What specifically about it? Im genuinely interested in your point of view, if your experience is as broad as you claim. Dear alkiii, patiently awaiting your response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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