*** is wrong is shadow infiltration

[Elror]

Im 46 now, and my issue is that silver mob are now as strong as gold one, each time I fight a silver my HP get down to 15-20%( i have to avoid most of the silver mob, too afraid to die). My gear is more than good. I used to switch to combat stance and put a shield, but since they nerfed it, it suck hard as infiltration...

 

Its only me or other shadows are having a bad time? We need more suvivabilty for pve solo. The nerf for the infiltraiotn was useless.

[Warclaymore]

I had the same issues when going infiltration, but after looking a whil here in the class forums, I realized that my gamestyle was wrong.

I dunnow how you confront your pulls, but as long as I know, the Infiltration Shadow should use ALL its CC tricks. Start with a kick, full rotation, low dash, take distance to take a breath, force cloak kick rotation, stun, take a breath with this 4 secs, rotation again. I wouldn't be afraid of using all my CD in every strong fight.

As I said, this is not my style (I'm more a Kinetic Shadow: run into them, AoE, DS, DS, Project, DS, project, AoE, DS, DS, Project TT), but sure the (few) infiltration players here could give you an advice.

[Timberley]

Speaking as a recent 50, I can say that yes, being Infiltration does feel somewhat squishy at times when levelling.

 

This is the rough rotation I used from stealth when levelling (with thanks to Kitru and Powerr for showing me the light so to speak):

 

Spinning Kick -> Clairvoyant Strike (As a 46, you've got that by now if you've been plugging solely into Infiltration) -> Clairvoyant Strike -> Project -> Force Breach -> Sabre Strike -> Blackout -> Clairvoyant Strike -> etc.

 

I say rough because additional attacks and skills are governed by your proc bar. If Find Weakness is up and you think you can get away with it (Force-wise and you won't need the interrupt ability anytime soon) then I add in Force Stun/Low Slash -> Shadow Strike. Alternatively, if the proc's up, and Holiday's out, you can forgo the stun. I'd be surprised if Kitru agreed with this however. And, again, if I think I can get away with it, I finish with a Spinning Strike.

 

Most of the Infiltration's big hits are primarily from using the procs intelligently and watching for them before using abilities. For example, make sure you've got 2 stacks of Circling Shadows from using Double/Clairvoyant Strike before using Project at all. Putting Force Breach straight after Project does give a bigger burst due to the animation & damage delay from Project.

 

Hopefully one of the more experienced voices will chime in with their version of events.

 

Oh, and what companion are you using? I used Tharan exclusively as soon as I got him on Nar Shadaa as he can apply the heals (when he remembers - he does seem to stop doing it if you've got a brief pause before attacking a Mind Mazed survivor of a group you've taken out), and he also brings Holiday to the table, who acts as her own stun.

 

In short, procs before any ability, and judicious use of stuns and interrupts as required.

 

Tim

Edited February 23, 2012 by Timberley

[ragamer]

Interrupt is the 1st thing you have to use on PvE as Infil (Tharan as companion the 2nd)...

 

...Also you need to know that Strong Mobs can (and usually) do more DPS than Elites or even Champions... They just have less HP.

 

You are 46... Soon, on Voss, you will have to face the hardest Strong encounter on the game, imho... The one with the 2 Gormak Shamans spawning as the last stage of a bonus...

 

...Those are the best example on how hard Strong mobs can hit over Elites or Champions.

[Philosomanic]

More information would help us help you. What build are you using? (Use the Torhead skill calculator). What companion are you using? How is your gear (Quest greens? Full oranges with commendation mods? Crafted blues? etc.)? How is your companion's gear?

 

Answer those, and we can probably point out what the issue is.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Philosomanic

[wilbertson]

PVE is really easy as infiltration shadow. Use Theran Cedrax + Shadow Technique.

 

Lets examine your typical packs of mobs.

 

Scenario 1

Mobs: 1 Strong, 2 Normal

Mind Maze the Strong while stealth, open with Clairvoyant Strike x2 > Project > Force Breach > Spinning Strike. Don't open with spinning kick, against normal mobs, its very high force usage for a measily 2 second stun. Only open with spinning kick against say a solo Elite mob.

 

By this point, Theran will have usually pulled aggro on the 2nd Normal mob, allowing you to go behind for the Shadow Strike if find weakness has procced. Otherwise Open up with Clairvoyant Strike > Project > Force Breach rotation again. Throw in low slashes/force stuns as needed to execute Shadow Strike. Always use Low Slash over Force Stun first as Low Slash has a significantly lower CD.

 

Before engaging the strong mob you can manually control Theran to heal you full up before you start. Repeat standard DPS rotation.

 

Scenario 2

Mobs: 4-5 Normal

You can stealth and Mind Maze one of the far left/right ones of the pack, then Force Wave to push them together in a group and use Whirling blow to dps them all, or, simply follow the standard DPS rotation, and maybe popping your Deflection or Unity CD at the start since you'll have 4 of them on you.

 

Scenario 3

Mobs: 2 Strong/2 Normal

Mind Maze one strong, follow the above rotation focusing down the Normals First, then the awake strong. Pop a defensive CD at the start if necessary. In scenarios where this STILL isn't enough and you're still dieing, after taking out the normals, you can reset by using Force Cloak to exit combat, and Meditate to recover full health. Then start from the beginning with Stealthing and Mind Mazing 1 strong and killing the other strong.

 

Basically each scenario comes down to this:

CC your hardest target with mind maze, pick off the low hp mobs as they go down quickly but do considerable damage, use your procs as they come up and if necessary use Force Cloak if you're really struggling. Use offensive and defensive CDs as necessary.

 

I'm a 50 shadow and have a very easy time soloing the heroic 2/4's dailies on Ilum and Belsavis.

Edited February 23, 2012 by wilbertson

[Elror]

Thanks all for all the great answer,

I guess my issue is not using theran, I used him since I got Nadia, because I want to raise affection with her, didnt though it was that hard to play without a healer.

 

And for the CC and rotation I use all of them and they work great, but without theran, a Voss silver mob, hit me 4-5 time and im close to death.

 

On a side note, I find it a bad gameplay design to force player to use the same companion all over the leveling process.

[wilbertson]

On a side note, I find it a bad gameplay design to force player to use the same companion all over the leveling process.

 

 

I wouldn't say it's necessarily a gameplay problem. To be honest, if you really liked another companion, you could make it work, its a matter of fine tuning them to work with you. Look at your companion as a way to overcome your current builds inherent weaknesses. First make sure you turn off any AOE that could disrupt your CC, or at least bind her two aoe abilities to something so you control when she uses them.

 

As a DPS Infiltration shadow, you have damage covered, but you're potentially lacking in 2 areas, either healing or tanking. Say you pick up Qyzen or Iresso to address the tanking issue, sure, now you have tanking and dps, but you're still lacking in healing. Expect lots of downtown in between each fight from having to meditate. You'll have an easier positioning yourself though. If you use a DPS companion and you''re dps specced you're going to be taking a lot of damage.

 

If you were a Tank specced shadow, you would go with either healing, or dps. Using a healing companion means you're very sturdy, but you might take longer to kill something. Using a DPS companion will lengthen recovery time between fights.

 

In general, i think people recommend Theran Cedrax over a tanking companion because your endurance, dps, and survivability will scale much better with levels and gear. Your companion's ability to heal/tank/dps will increase with gear, but not by much. So as you get better equipment, you'll be able to take more damage, and do more damage. Having a healing companion essentially extends your ability to take damage even further. If you used a tanking companion, however, their ability to tank is fixed. The fact that you're hitting harder means their tanking ability is diminished since you'll be pulling threat quicker.

 

Using Theran versus Nadia means slightly longer fights but less downtime in between fights. Using Nadia means shorter fights, but more downtime. Pick whichever you prefer, just realize your decision's implications on battle length and downtime.

Edited February 23, 2012 by wilbertson

[Philosomanic]

I personally like Qyzen best. Even though he has less DPS than Nadia, being able to use Shadow Strike when it procs is a nice DPS boost. If you have aggro, that skill isn't useable. Also, at least so far, I've had minimal downtime with Qyzen. Maybe two or three seconds meditation after each landscape groups. Nadia tends to go down* much faster for me. Qyzen's DPS, combined with Shadow Strike, come pretty close.

 

I only use Tharan if I know that there are lots of Imps nearby. Even then, I'll usually keep Qyzen out and hang onto Force Cloak. Tharan's great for world PvP, but I actually go much faster with Qyzen/Nadia. They give me far more DPS, and at the cost of a few seconds of downtime.

 

Just my two cents.

 

 

*Get your mind out of the gutter.

Edited February 23, 2012 by Philosomanic

[ragamer]

n general, i think people recommend Theran Cedrax over a tanking companion because your endurance, dps, and survivability will scale much better with levels and gear.

 

Personally I always recommend Tharan because Holiday CC... It's so easy to synch your combat to get the max of it that it's a world of a difference. The key is the very low CD and that she appears 2 seconds before the CC gets in place, making very easy to interrupt ongoing attacks and keep the mob interrupted...

 

...This massive CC just disrupts tough enemies casting sequences and OFC, boosts the healing received as you have all the time in the world for Tharan to get his heals out of CD.

[Jagil]

I had the same issue till about lvl 40 then read up that kinetic was so much better at tanking. From that point on I was able to fight gold stars without even losing 1/4 of my hp by the end of the fight.

[Elror]

Yea but im infiltration, until double spec, i wont respec for tank.

[Kaphik]

I leveled to 50 as Infiltration with no problems at all. I never used Tharan, I only used Qyzen and sometimes Iresso when I had Qyzens affection way up there.

 

Learn to use your stuns! We have several, and plenty of dps to burn down everything except some champion mobs.

[KingpinDragon]

Do forget about Tumult... It's strong and doesn't cost a thing--just that CD.

[AlatarTheGrey]

Thanks all for all the great answer,

I guess my issue is not using theran, I used him since I got Nadia, because I want to raise affection with her, didnt though it was that hard to play without a healer..

 

You can always bring Nadia out when accepting and turning in missions to get her afffection but switch to Theran when you'll be fighting. He doesn't like many Jedi-ish answers any way.

[nomoreavril]

*** is everyone going on about? if you're infiltration, you need to use qyzen. infiltration is a STEALTH CLASS. doing all your damage from the back while someone else is getting hit. i dont care what anyone says about shadow strike using too much force. i have all my points in force regen and damage boost. at 35 my shadow strike crits for almost 2k every time. and i''m probably undergeared. the best my project gets is maybe 1200-1400. and i use BOTH only when procced. so if you're gonna QQ about losing too much health when playing as a dps stealth class, i guess you need to either use more CC or go kinetic. with qyzen i never even get touched. and take strong mobs down within 6 seconds.

[ragamer]

Erm...

 

*** is everyone going on about? if you're infiltration, you need to use qyzen. infiltration is a STEALTH CLASS. doing all your damage from the back while someone else is getting hit.

 

...You do realize that Holiday is a free CC that allows you to Shadow Strike enemies on the back, right?...

 

...And that if you use SS without FW procs you are forfeiting either a Project or a FB, right? Specially on short bursts scenarios?

[nomoreavril]

1. holiday pisses me off, because every time i am fighting a boss and spamming my cooldowns, if i hit one at JUST THE RIGHT SECOND. he deploys holiday, i do damage at the same time, and she disappears. then it is useless. i only use theran if i am fighting a boss, though.

 

2. i said i only use project AND ss when they are procced.

[Panzerbase]

*** is everyone going on about? if you're infiltration, you need to use qyzen. infiltration is a STEALTH CLASS. doing all your damage from the back while someone else is getting hit. i dont care what anyone says about shadow strike using too much force. i have all my points in force regen and damage boost. at 35 my shadow strike crits for almost 2k every time. and i''m probably undergeared. the best my project gets is maybe 1200-1400. and i use BOTH only when procced. so if you're gonna QQ about losing too much health when playing as a dps stealth class, i guess you need to either use more CC or go kinetic. with qyzen i never even get touched. and take strong mobs down within 6 seconds.

 

Fail, shadow strike is the only move that requires us to be behind the target and it's weak as hell. Come back at 50 and maybe you'll have more to share kid.