mrHaterade Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) In testing out my theory in THIS THREAD, I noticed that the damage done with Force Scream didn't seem to be affected by Gore. Random variance aside, regular and crit damage on level 48 normal, strong, and elite mobs was about the same with Gore as without. Is anyone else seeing this? UPDATE: This apparently is only an issue in PvE. Perhaps mobs have no or very little armor to penetrate, I dunno, but the difference is hugely noticeable on other players. Edited March 1, 2012 by mrHaterade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumri Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Force Scream is Kinetic Damage. Kinetic Damage is reduced by armor. Gore gives you 100% armor penetration. Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrHaterade Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 So yeah, did you read the post or just the title? I'm seeing Gore having no effect on Force Scream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varatho Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 That's odd. I do noticeably less damage with force scream in pvp without gore up. Are you factoring in Execute procs? Might be only pve thing? I know the Carnage tree is full of pve bugs, it's at the point where I am about to respec just to function properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trekket Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Gore is a big damage increase, not sure about pvp....im to busy being a pingpong ball which is starting to get old fast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rufuscure Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Gore is essential in pvp. I've noticed it isn't as useful in pve although my pve experience is just questing. I'm full centurion and half champion carnage spec with 48 valor. I average 200-300k dmg and hover around the top of the charts unless it's a really bad *** tier 3 guild rocking me. This is completely nonscientific but I've noticed better results on heavy armor then medium then light. Gore almost doubles my dmg it seems what I do is gore>trinket(champion)>force scream I get good results, I say play around with it more. Also realize that it can miss. Gl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrHaterade Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) I didn't get a chance to verify in PvP, but it's definitely not doing much, if anything, for me in PvE at the moment. I see a very noticeable difference gored vs ungored using Vicious Slash, Massacre, and Ravage, but almost nothing with Force Scream. This is just running around questing level 48+ normal, strong, and elite mobs on Corellia. I am checking to make sure the buff is on target so it's not that it's missing. May as well file a ticket. :/ Edited February 21, 2012 by mrHaterade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumri Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) I noticed that Gore made my FS hit harder(up from 5k to 5.5k on average in my older gear) on raid bosses(although not by much due to the stacking 20% armor debuff bug and having 3-4x 20% in our 16m when I was carnage). Your targets may or may not have a noticeable amount of armor. Try testing it on a tank friend and you'll notice a large damage difference. The last time I played Carnage was 1.1.1 so I may be wrong and a patch may have fudged it up but I don't understand why the devs would screw around with Gore or Force Scream. Edited February 21, 2012 by Tumri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varatho Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I noticed that Gore made my FS hit harder(up from 5k to 5.5k on average in my older gear) It's stuff like this that makes me wonder just what level of gear I am supposed to have. My FS are lucky to breach 3k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderbubble Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 It's stuff like this that makes me wonder just what level of gear I am supposed to have. My FS are lucky to breach 3k. Carnage is probably the latest bloomer of all the trees. Annihilate is the best pre-40, Carnage is probably best until 49, and then at ungeared 50, Rage seems to shine. As you get geared, Annihilate becomes the best again. Once you're ridiculously geared, Carnage becomes good again. In other words, Carnage is only good once you're the top 90%+ of your PvP tier. On topic: I've also noticed Gore making Scream a harder hit. However, I spend half my time in the Carnage tree facepalming about how bad it is compared to other trees that I don't notice it as much. I have never seen Scream do less damage with an instant crit and a Gore than on a crit without Gore, assuming half of it wasn't absorbed by an overpowered- I mean Sorceror. Off topic again: As I've said about 239487234 times on these forums, Carnage is amazingly fun. It's just not viable and I really wish it was...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruddy Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Because Gore affects FS (as well as everything else) I'll refer the community back to: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100ZGGrM00rRrcZhrR0z.1 FC > Gore > FS > BA > Obliterate > VT > Ravage and boom goes the dynamite. Shii-Cho o you aint doin' it rite! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrHaterade Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 blah... What a maroon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kricys Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Because Gore affects FS (as well as everything else) I'll refer the community back to: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100ZGGrM00rRrcZhrR0z.1 FC > Gore > FS > BA > Obliterate > VT > Ravage and boom goes the dynamite. Shii-Cho o you aint doin' it rite! No, just no. That's horrible. Why would you do that to yourself. First of all gore is 6 seconds. By the time you use it and your next global is up you have 4.5 seconds left on it, thats 3 globals if you time it perfectly and don't get cc'd, knocked back, rooted etc. In your amazing "rotation" when you get to ravage gore will have expired. No ataru form, no blood frenzy, no massacre, exchanged for a weak obliterate. Hybrid builds do.not.work. Stop it. Carnage performs bad enough but you managed to gimp it even more, wow. I hope to god this is a troll. Edited February 21, 2012 by Kricys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruddy Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 i liek turtles... i c wut u did thurr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcaciaDragon Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 No, just no. That's horrible. Why would you do that to yourself. First of all gore is 6 seconds. By the time you use it and your next global is up you have 4.5 seconds left on it, thats 3 globals if you time it perfectly and don't get cc'd, knocked back, rooted etc. In your amazing "rotation" when you get to ravage gore will have expired. No ataru form, no blood frenzy, no massacre, exchanged for a weak obliterate. Hybrid builds do.not.work. Stop it. Carnage performs bad enough but you managed to gimp it even more, wow. I hope to god this is a troll. No, he is dead serious, I remember his thread trying to pass that off as a real spec. Not one person supported it and he still thinks its viable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrHaterade Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) Hybrid builds do.not.work. Stop it. Hybrid builds work fine. You don't work. Start to. i c wut u did thurr. Btw, I have almost the same spec, hoss: http://knotor.com/skills#AgQAHA0zQklScnqjqrK6wsvSgomqsbrCywAA Edited February 21, 2012 by mrHaterade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruddy Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 No, just no. That's horrible. Why would you do that to yourself. First of all gore is 6 seconds. By the time you use it and your next global is up you have 4.5 seconds left on it, thats 3 globals if you time it perfectly and don't get cc'd, knocked back, rooted etc. In your amazing "rotation" when you get to ravage gore will have expired. No ataru form, no blood frenzy, no massacre, exchanged for a weak obliterate. Hybrid builds do.not.work. Stop it. Carnage performs bad enough but you managed to gimp it even more, wow. I hope to god this is a troll. Obliterate is actually quite strong, and if you crit with Gore up, its 3k+. FS crits for 4k+. This build is about rooting and having a low-cost burst w/ FS. The 4pts you get from FC cover the opening Gore + FS > BA > Obliterate all fall under the 6sec ArP rule. You -can- use Ravage before the end, but *most* look for this to interrupt, so saving it for the end of your rotation serves your purposes of rooting them + damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruddy Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Hybrid builds work fine. You don't work. Start to. Btw, I have almost the same spec, hoss. One thing i noticed with this spec is the ease of throwing the 2 pts from Overwhelm around into other talents. Like 2/3 Enraged Slash for the rage building Vicious Slash Fury dump; 2/2 into Saber strength; or even dropping the self heal and putting points into both Saber Strength and Brutality (but that seems more of a PvE build). Lemme know And thx for the curiousity in checking it out and/or discovering it on your own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrHaterade Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 No, Obliterate is very strong. What these group-thinkers fail to grasp is Force Scream for 1 rage every 6 seconds. Also, Vicious Slash with talents, and especially Berserk is more painful than Massacre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasymodeX Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Obliterate is actually quite strong, and if you crit with Gore up, its 3k+. WOW DUDE, THAT IS LIKE 75% OF THE DAMAGE THAT MASSACRE DOES WHEN YOU CRIT WITH GORE UP ... EVERY GCD o.O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruddy Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 No, he is dead serious, I remember his thread trying to pass that off as a real spec. Not one person supported it and he still thinks its viable. People did get behind it, but it got flagged for spelling out FS too many times lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrHaterade Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) WOW DUDE, THAT IS LIKE 75% OF THE DAMAGE THAT MASSACRE DOES WHEN YOU CRIT WITH GORE UP ... EVERY GCD o.O Which is what got me thinking of dropping Obliterate, but it's also a decent damaging gap closer. Otherwise this: http://knotor.com/skills#AgQDHArbM0JJUnJ6o6qyusLL0qqxusLL Edited February 21, 2012 by mrHaterade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasymodeX Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I wonder if Massacre still procs an Ataru in ShiiCho stance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruddy Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Which is what got me thinking of dropping Obliterate, but it's also a decent damaging gap closer. Obliterate is a gap closer, which makes it superior to Massacre (*for this build*). And considering the build favors Shii-Cho form, and forgets all the Ataru Form junk, Obliterate is the superior option over Massacre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrHaterade Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 I wonder if Massacre still procs an Ataru in ShiiCho stance. Nope. Tried it. I think it's kinda buggered a little as I was getting a LOT of crits (about 80%) when doing a Massacre before Scream. After dropping Massacre in a respec it's not quite as often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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