what if: NO Ops - Just FP's?

[SushaBrancaleone]

WHAT IF:

the best content in the game was to be had from HM FPs?

OPS would be removed or just not implemented any longer and loot to be had in ops could be found in FPS too? regarding rakata, FP's could have a "Nighmare " mode.

 

the reasoning is that i find FP's to be the most fun activity in the game for me. I hear many on the forums complaining about somehting regarding PVP, Operations, farming daily quests, but I NEVER read any1 complaining about the FP's.

 

In fact i love them and i love tanking them.

 

the 4 man storytelling allows for a lot of immersion and the game play is fun and works as are the bosses. nor is it always easy to get through them with random groups.

 

FPS is where this game shines. while it has many holes here and there, i wonder if it wouldnt be best to invest more in what is working rather than try and fix somethign which isnt their strong?

 

what if new FP's were implemented frequently, becoming the main attraction, allowing bio to focus on the storytelling which they have done so well so far?

 

it would also be a new take on mmo's maybe a more casual friendly one, but atleast it would do something really well instead of trying to do everything so so.

 

anyone agrees?

[pursang]

the reasoning is that i find FP's to be the most fun activity in the game for me.

 

And that's where your argument fails. Most people aren't you.

[Lord_of_Stone]

I agree with pretty much everything. I love FPs, for their story telling and role playing ability. It makes me glad that with 1.1 Bioware has set their standard in terms of new content: Flashpoints.

 

However, I would never want them to remove Ops, because they are equally awesome for different reasons. Little replayability, but AWESOME fights. I cant even begin to describe how fast my heart was pumping the first time I faced Soa.... I was healing and I had NO idea what was in store for me. We made it all the way to stage 3 and wiped.... but it was incredible. Such a beautiful fight. And the music.... oh how I love how they use Duel of Fates so sparingly....

[Madprophetus]

WHAT IF:

the best content in the game was to be had from HM FPs?

OPS would be removed or just not implemented any longer and loot to be had in ops could be found in FPS too? regarding rakata, FP's could have a "Nighmare " mode.

 

the reasoning is that i find FP's to be the most fun activity in the game for me. I hear many on the forums complaining about somehting regarding PVP, Operations, farming daily quests, but I NEVER read any1 complaining about the FP's.

 

In fact i love them and i love tanking them.

 

the 4 man storytelling allows for a lot of immersion and the game play is fun and works as are the bosses. nor is it always easy to get through them with random groups.

 

FPS is where this game shines. while it has many holes here and there, i wonder if it wouldnt be best to invest more in what is working rather than try and fix somethign which isnt their strong?

 

what if new FP's were implemented frequently, becoming the main attraction, allowing bio to focus on the storytelling which they have done so well so far?

 

it would also be a new take on mmo's maybe a more casual friendly one, but atleast it would do something really well instead of trying to do everything so so.

 

anyone agrees?

 

As a tank, yes. I agree. However, SWTOR flashpoints force you to slog through too much trash for too few bosses or story moments per instance. They would have to pare it down quite a bit or add more bosses and story moments to make the time rewarding.

[SushaBrancaleone]

As a tank, yes. I agree. However, SWTOR flashpoints force you to slog through too much trash for too few bosses or story moments per instance. They would have to pare it down quite a bit or add more bosses and story moments to make the time rewarding.

 

id love for more action and less dialogue in the cinematics.

 

U know the good old days when all a gamer wanted as reward for completing a lvl was a cool animation sequence?

 

loved False emperor the first time when there's actually some physical interaction between us and him.

[Dayfax]

It's n interesting idea. An MMO without raids would be ... Strange. Interesting, but strange.

 

The only downside I could see is they'd have to add a helluva lot of instances to make up for the lack of any other PvE endgame content. They'd also might have to be a touch longer.

 

You might be loving it now, btw, but I think difficulty would be an issue down the road. There's nothing more boring than running the same old same old instances & facerollin the same 5-man (now 4-man) boss for the 20th time.

[SushaBrancaleone]

@ Dayfax

 

well they could start by makind hard modes of all the FPs already in game. u know the below lvl 50 ones that arent already HMs

that would give them time to make more. and more and then more...

a huge variety in fps and storytelling might work

[PhoenixMatrix]

Considering HM Flashpoints take forever to do, for very little loot, it probably would be an interesting idea to have all of the loot (or most) be obtainable from HM Flashpoints (obviously stuff like Rekata or Columi weapon would have to come from significantly harder ones).

 

People who do ops would get their stuff faster, but those who have trouble getting 8-16 people together would still have access to everything. They'd just have to work harder for it.

 

Its basically how it is right now with the 5 main pieces of columi in HM vs normal ops. Normal EV 4/5 is easier than pretty much all HM flashpoints and drop 10-20 times more loot for the same amount of time. Just expand the concept.

 

Its a bit of a shame right now where if you have the 5 main pieces (pretty damn quick with the amount of commendations that drop now and normal EV), the bracers and offhand in columi, and you have 4 people around, the only thing you guys can do together that will be rewarding is PvP. And repeating the same 2 ops at different difficulty gets old fast.

 

If making more flashpoints is too much for the devs, the nightmare mode HM for rekata gear and columi weapon maybe?

 

As a sidenote, if someone want to see what happens if you have a game where everything is a "Flashpoint" (though it does have raids), DDO is one of those. 99% of the content of the game is just countless instanced quests, like the flashpoints in TOR. Then at endgame there's a few raid, and "hardmode" versions of a ton of those instanced quests. Works pretty well actually.

Edited February 20, 2012 by PhoenixMatrix

[DarthKhaos]

And that's where your argument fails. Most people aren't you.

You could of just said "There are people who enjoy Ops/Raids. Removing them would lessen the game experience for them." It helps to know that as a player you do not have to do raids."

 

Stop being so mean unnecessarily.

Edited February 20, 2012 by DarthKhaos

[Anti_Bodies]

WHAT IF:

the best content in the game was to be had from HM FPs?

OPS would be removed or just not implemented any longer and loot to be had in ops could be found in FPS too? regarding rakata, FP's could have a "Nighmare " mode.

 

the reasoning is that i find FP's to be the most fun activity in the game for me. I hear many on the forums complaining about somehting regarding PVP, Operations, farming daily quests, but I NEVER read any1 complaining about the FP's.

 

In fact i love them and i love tanking them.

 

the 4 man storytelling allows for a lot of immersion and the game play is fun and works as are the bosses. nor is it always easy to get through them with random groups.

 

FPS is where this game shines. while it has many holes here and there, i wonder if it wouldnt be best to invest more in what is working rather than try and fix somethign which isnt their strong?

 

what if new FP's were implemented frequently, becoming the main attraction, allowing bio to focus on the storytelling which they have done so well so far?

 

it would also be a new take on mmo's maybe a more casual friendly one, but atleast it would do something really well instead of trying to do everything so so.

 

anyone agrees?

 

lets get rid of Warzones, those annoying voice overs, and the whole "leveling from 1-50" thing too.

[SushaBrancaleone]

lets get rid of Warzones, those annoying voice overs, and the whole "leveling from 1-50" thing too.

 

lets get rid of bad sarcasm .. and those who make us of it...

[subrosian]

Sounds a lot like Phantasy Star Online.

 

However, I prefer Operations. Removing 8 and 16 player content from the game would make the whole game feel like a single player game. Part of what makes newer MMOs exciting is that they have so much end-game content for 8+ player groups, which is something that doesn't exist in non-MMO RPGs.

 

There are plenty of co-op games out there, there are not many games where you can get a group of 16 people together to fight ancient dark side beings.

[peaceandpassion]

no, just no. I cant begin to explain why this would set us back 8 years of gaming. Ideas like this can work in some games but an mmo based on the ruleset of swtor. No just couldnt work.

 

To write a FP for every 4 person group out there will take longer and become dull fast, where as creating long difficult raids for 8/16man takes alot longer to gear people out.

 

To stop people progressing to fast you would have to introduce a loot system like AION and the people who played that game will back me up when i say, god no. Grinding the same 4 man for months to get 1 item? just no. Doing 8/16 man content for loot that is more challanging, last longer and more likely to reward you? this is the option with the longer shelf life of content.

[Lazzer]

If you stop and think about it it's not a bad idea, you can create 6 to 10 FP for every operation that you create giving far more content for people to do, don't get rid of operations but make them more complex and difficult so only the really dedicated can complete them (after spending weeks of wipe after wipe after wipe) while the rest of us get on with gaining slightly lesser gear from the masses of flashpoints.

 

We can always go back and do the insane raids once we out level them to bring us on par gear wise but until then it will give the elite more unique gear to display and the rest of the community content to do.

 

Edit: typos.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Lazzer

[flyersfan]

And that's where your argument fails. Most people aren't you.

 

It's a hypothetical question and I agree with OP on a lot of the points presented. Lighten up.

 

I also enjoy the smaller group of a Flashpoint compared to the 8- or Force forbid 16-person Operations. The story is better and there's more variety with almost 20 Flashpoints and only two Operations. The gear in Operations may be better, but I don't really need it for my style of play anyway.

[owlinspace]

While I agree that flashpoints should have the nightmare-mode difficulty, I don't agree they should quit making ops content, as ops are 10 times more fun to play.

 

I would also like them to make ALL flashpoint HM or NMM, including, Athiss, madalorian raiders, cademimu, Red Reaper etc. I honestly don't get why those flashpoints arent HM.

[flyersfan]

While I agree that flashpoints should have the nightmare-mode difficulty, I don't agree they should quit making ops content, as ops are 10 times more fun to play.

 

I would also like them to make ALL flashpoint HM or NMM, including, Athiss, madalorian raiders, cademimu, Red Reaper etc. I honestly don't get why those flashpoints arent HM.

 

Those don't have Hard Mode variants? I didn't know that. I'm rather disappointed since some of those listed are some of my favourites. At least I can do Directive 7

[FourTwent]

And that's where your argument fails. Most people aren't you.

 

I think it's pretty unfair to say 'most people'. . .especially when you're the 2nd poster to the thread and have no idea what people think about this topic yet. Your assumptions are just as bad, if not worse, than theirs.

[FourTwent]

Sounds a lot like Phantasy Star Online.

 

However, I prefer Operations. Removing 8 and 16 player content from the game would make the whole game feel like a single player game. Part of what makes newer MMOs exciting is that they have so much end-game content for 8+ player groups, which is something that doesn't exist in non-MMO RPGs.

 

There are plenty of co-op games out there, there are not many games where you can get a group of 16 people together to fight ancient dark side beings.

 

I do agree here though, I think there should be way more content that requires way more people.

[oakamp]

I do agree here though, I think there should be way more content that requires way more people.

 

then u should play EQ,

there used to be hundreds ppl in one raid.

[Andyonme]

Has the op never done a 16man op? For me this is a stupid idea....fp's are dull and boring, they are too small, funnel you down tiny corridors to the end. Op's are very large, have huge areas, they are 100 times more entertaining, especially with 4 times as many players!

 

Fp's do need to be reworked, they are pathetically easy on hm and most trash in them can be skipped. Why not nmm fp's 6 man?

[YellowOcifer]

To a certain extent, I agree. There should be challenging content in all aspects of the game. There should be solo content that is challenging (although you can make your own and try soloing the heroic 2+ dailies). There should be flashpoints that are challenging (try bringing 2 bounty hunters into directive 7, lol). There should be ops that are challenging (which i think hardmodes are suitably so, and nightmare hopefully when we get gear will be).

 

The problem is that ops have been chosen as the ultimate endgame content, and I agree that there should be other aspects that are fun and challenging.

[Khayleth]

The FP's in this game are fun for their story (the first few times, after that I'm mashing spacebar) and bioware has done a fantastic job for each flashpoint as far as design and atmosphere, seriously, the environments in this game are awesome I love them. But look at the reality to what the fps are now: AoE-fest, hit a boss that may or may not require you to pay attention (the swordsman boss in BT compared to say... Mentor) and it's not something you want to do repeatedly.

 

Granted, the trash in the Ops are also largely aoe-fests (there are some exceptions in KP which actually does have some difficult pulls), but in our HM EV today we just aoe'd down the trash in seconds and then got to the bosses. With large hp pools and enrage timers along with more, and more punishing, mechanics to master, the ops are a better challenge for players seeking something more. If you're a casual player and don't have a lot of time to raid, you could honestly do normal mode ops, we took in a fairly average geared group in to normal EV on wednesday this week, several of us whom had never even done the fights, and full cleared both EV and KP in less than two hours each before jumping in to HM today.

 

FP's just aren't that challenging, I play mmo's to fight the giant monsters and to get the cool looking endgame gear (though the endgame gear in this particular raid tier is ugly), only doing 4 player content would severely limit them.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Khayleth

[Siorac]

Umm, why should Operations be removed? I agree with the idea of Nightmare mode Flashpoints dropping Rakata stuff, with Legendary items still only coming from Operations.

 

Oh, and make those Nightmare mode FPs true to their name, they should be EXTREMELY HARD, simply because getting 4 people together is quite easy.

[Kalfear]

well removing all raid style content would definately be a step in right direction (though do keep public grouping where no one can say yes or no to someone joining a public group to avoid the elitism that comes with raiding now a days. IE, world bosses should be run as public groups where everyone just joins and no one needs to be invited when in area)

 

And flashpoints are something EA did very right in this game. I to love the flashpoints.

 

Though frankly id like Developers to get away from "Best Drop Content" and return to, there is a ULTRA SMALL % Chance this uber item drops from 1 of the 10 encounters.

 

I think everyone running around in the nbest gear makes the best gear worthless.

 

What made J Boots in EQ so sought after early on was not everyone had them

What made pearl items so sought after in the first MMORPG (Neverwinter Nights on AOL) 21 years ago is not everyone had those items.

What made the Prince Sword from Darkness Falls in DAoC (before they made it meaningless with over powered crafting) was not everyone had it (it didnt drop all the time and only 1 dropped to be rolled on by like 20-30 people)

 

These items being rare made them worth more (status wise, rare items should be BoP and non tradable/sellable, which again increases their status worth as players have to be there when they drop and cant be passed to alts and friends or sold).

 

So im with you on removing Raids/Operations.

Honestly I doubt many people would care, the Raiding community seems pretty small and self defeating as time goes on.

But as for best gear, id really like to see developers go back to makeing these items meaningfull, special, unique.

 

Thats one of the biggest issues in the post WOW era. Besides WOW and after games being mindlessly easy, there is nothing special in them. You get the special drop and your deflated to learn everyone gets that special drop on most days. Suddenly its not so special.

 

WOW took the WOW FACTOR outta MMORPGs and the games that have come after (you know, those ones that go F2P in under 12 months because they cant hold peoples interests) just lack any gusto and zeal now.