The crafting system in general

[skaidar]

I was excited about the crafting system in the beggining. After making second character, taking whole different crew skills, I realized how incompetent and lame the whole system was... Let me explain please:

First of all, the discovering of Purple recipes - sometimes it can take days of playtime for you to discover it, and if you are a leveling character (which is the only time it matters, on 50lvl you will need absolutelly nothing from the crafted things), you will be way above the level of that item when you discover it (unless you are extremely lucky). ALSO this whole thing ruins the economy, because after putting SO MUCH effort into discovering some purple for 11lvl you must either sell it for at least 15k to cover your expenses, time, and frustrate, or sell it cheap so you end up wondering *** are you doing with your life?!

Couldn't you just make it that the purple recipe is discovered 100% after the 2nd or 3rd reverse engineer? Or at least make the chance for discovering increases after every reverse engineer break?

 

You made the crafting so people can rely ONLY on themselves, which kills big part of the possible economy and some of the social aspects. All the craftings should be dependent at laest a little on each other, and all should be able to make at least few thing that every class could use. For example, I know from experience that Synthweaving and Slicing are some of the least picked professions, and understandably! At first I thought about Slicing "oh cool, now I will receive so much crafting missions and schematics I could sell". What happens actually - in only 5% of the time you receive schematics or crafting missions. Rest of the time you send your companion to bring you lockboxes that dont even contain enough credtis to cover your expenses for the mission.

 

What you guys think?

[Kheld]

All crafting except Biochem is pointless at endgame.

[Njordstar]

All crafting except Biochem is pointless at endgame.

 

Exactly this. The whole crafting system is a waste of time and credits.

[DarthWalt]

ITs also broke.

 

 

RE is broke the return rates are messed. On top of that there is an error that will make so you can relearn schem you have already discoved wasting time mats and credits for nothing.

 

The system as a whole is more valuable then people are letting on. But clearly some crew skills are way more usefull IE Bio end game then others.

[Kissakias]

the game doesnt have crafting and space at all

 

its all a lvl up grind

[Ethern]

All crafting except Biochem is pointless at endgame.

Exactly this. The whole crafting system is a waste of time and credits.

Well summed up.

The crafting in TOR is a joke. A big one.

Players are self sufficient + costs a lot of credits + it takes ages, even with a lot of affection to get any item done. All of that justified by the fact that we don't have to craft ourselves. Sometimes I wished I could craft myself just to see the filling bar getting shorter, like in other MMOs.

 

Terrible.

[Aphraell]

I have a few issues with the crafting system, but all in all its fantastic. The biggest problem is the fact that people can do dailys that provide better items than its even possible to craft - thats the killer.

 

Those that really want to put in the time and effort into it, can do really well. I've spent millions Reverse Engineering, but you need to make sure your REing the right items that people actually want.

 

Is it usefull levelling, probably not.

 

But at level 50 the serious crafters should be able to make a decent profit if they know what they are doing. And thats any of the 6 crafts. I have them all and make a profit on everyone of them.

[maxjam]

The crafting system is very disappointing tbh. As an armstech I feel useless on the whole

 

As I levelled the weapons I got from questing were better than those I could craft and the first day I did my dailies at level 50 it rendered my entire profession useless.

 

Yes, I could make some lower level barrels and focus on the guys that are levelling but what percentage of gamer buys barrels/weapons when you can level perfectly acceptably with the ones you get from questing?

 

I don't want to get rich selling overpriced wares to unsuspecting customers, I'd just like to feel useful and do something I enjoy.

Edited February 19, 2012 by maxjam

[Valaeda]

I am very, very disappointed in the crafting system in general, and the way it's so... well, for a $100M game, very little of it was spent in coming up with a rational crafting system. My only craft is synthweaving. I think it's an absolute joke that items needed for armors of all types are solely based on the level of synthweaving. Really? A piece of light armor is going to take exactly the same things in the same amounts as a piece of heavy armor? Who thought this through? No one, it seems.

 

I am also disappointed with the lack of support the marketplace mechanics give. Being able to list things for only two days at a time does not support the marketplace, either for buyers or sellers. Add that to the other crafting problems, and you've got real game economic problems.

 

I will complete synthweaving only because I'm goal oriented. I don't see any use in it or any of the other crafts at this point.

[MarcosAguila]

First of all, the discovering of Purple recipes - sometimes it can take days of playtime for you to discover it, and if you are a leveling character (which is the only time it matters, on 50lvl you will need absolutelly nothing from the crafted things), you will be way above the level of that item when you discover it (unless you are extremely lucky).

 

So you're trying to craft for yourself? Also, theyre addressing the RE problems but thats not going to happen overnight. It will need some tweaking.

 

ALSO this whole thing ruins the economy, because after putting SO MUCH effort into discovering some purple for 11lvl you must either sell it for at least 15k to cover your expenses, time, and frustrate, or sell it cheap so you end up wondering *** are you doing with your life?!

 

So basically the cost of producing items is too high in terms of credits and resources. Yes?

 

You made the crafting so people can rely ONLY on themselves, which kills big part of the possible economy and some of the social aspects. All the craftings should be dependent at laest a little on each other, and all should be able to make at least few thing that every class could use. For example, I know from experience that Synthweaving and Slicing are some of the least picked professions, and understandably! At first I thought about Slicing "oh cool, now I will receive so much crafting missions and schematics I could sell". What happens actually - in only 5% of the time you receive schematics or crafting missions. Rest of the time you send your companion to bring you lockboxes that dont even contain enough credtis to cover your expenses for the mission.

 

What you guys think?

 

Well as a synthweaver,at 400/400/roughly 400, I think if you look at orange gear, and crafting criticals, it depends largely on the player to understand that he has to go over to an artiface and a cybertech to fill out his mods. More is being done about orange gear and mods now. Also, its up to you as a crafter to go over to those profession playing folks and say hey make me this, this and this, and then take that finished product over to the GTN list it to make your credits. Not all items are done just because youve made them. People who sorta get that are ogign to have sales. But you have to go make your connections and youve got to try this and come back and talk about the results of your efforts.

Edited February 19, 2012 by MarcosAguila

[skaidar]

I am very, very disappointed in the crafting system in general, and the way it's so... well, for a $100M game....

What's worse is that the game actually costs $300M !!!

 

I am so happy everyone agree with me.

Let's review shortly how ALL the professions work:

1 Gathering skill - to gather ALL the materials all by yourself and not need any outside help.

1 Crafting skill - all the different types of crafts, like blaster pistol and blaster rifle require the same amount of materials and the same materials... ***?

1 Mission skill - To gather blue ingrediends and gifts.

And for some color, there is the Slicing - which most people would think will get recipes and crafting missions most of the times. It actually gives you missions and schematics in 5% of the time, and the rest of the time it's just credits (that dont even cover the expenses).

And that's ALL! All the Crew Skills made exactly the same way, with the same mechanics and stuff.

 

So now, let me tell you (you probably know, but still) how the crafting in WoW works:

For start, you have, lets say Mining - you mine the ore which you can use yourself or sell to other professions that also require it.

Then you go craft with Blacksmithing - some recipes require ingredients which you cant get yourself and must buy or grind (cloths or gems).

You can also craft things that are needed for other professions, like enchanting or engineering.

And so on, and so on...

[Blackardin]

I was excited about the crafting system in the beggining. After making second character, taking whole different crew skills, I realized how incompetent and lame the whole system was... Let me explain please:

 

Well, I personally think the system is a great one.

 

The problem is not the system, but the fail rate, acquirement rate, cost and return rates. I think that is what you were getting at, and they've already acknowledged this, and have stated that they are working on it.

 

I would have to guess that it is going to take a little time to test and implement. I myself have documented a couple of problems that I've encountered and posted them here. However, to take random player declarations as truth would be quite foolish on their part.

 

All we can do is post our concerns, add whatever testing or anecdotal evidence we can in the hope of giving them a bit of help and a head start on the direction they should move to test.

 

Rest is up to them, but I do have faith in their intent based on all that has transpired to date.

[Blackardin]

I have a few issues with the crafting system, but all in all its fantastic. The biggest problem is the fact that people can do dailys that provide better items than its even possible to craft - thats the killer.

 

This too. In order to have a crafting system the items must have some worth, and be more cost effective then the sum of their parts (mats). That worth has to be slightly greater then in game items acquired through leveling. Badge items should either be entirely different (like present a cash award, or to buy mats), or be there for those that do not want to, or cannot purchase or make crafted items. In short, a viable second choice.

 

There also, absolutely must be some worth end game. End game worth of at least one obligatory item from each crafting skill is an absolute must.

 

Hopefully they will take all those concerns into account as they work on this.

[Chiefy]

get rid of tionese gear (beef up crafting gear to tionese stats, make crafting gear starting tier into raiding)

 

get rid of vendors selling mods/enhancements/barrels and everything you need for "2 commendations", or decrease it to green ones only

 

let us craft lvl 50 type mods and not 49 (i.e tionese equivalent)

 

add more raid drops for 56/58 mods schematic drops (or even just any artifice schematic that isnt a crystal you will upgrade with a tionese stat lightsaber, that was really worth the effort of downing that world boss to get the schematic..)

 

make artifact level items have a minimal if not substantial difference over orange gear and not just orange with epic armor mod included ** (im still not fully behind this one, but wanted to try give armormech some love)

 

include GTN across all planets that is tied together "galaxy wide" to encourage a more crafter friendly system that is reliant on your player base and not npc's

 

replace current RE system with a way to work towards the bonus style you want (i.e if you want overkill / critical / redoubt etc you have a way to "lvl" up towards that, and not just keep RE until your eyes bleed, your dry on mats and realise you just got that unwanted "overkill" schematic that is "already known" 3 times)

 

 

make the mats by all means drop from hardmode flashpoints or be able to buy these for warzone commendations to let players still have a reason to do these post-50 (after your sitting their in your rakata gear and all those columi/tionese commendations are useless), that means you are still participating in end game content but actually have a reason to do so if you are able to craft items that will actually be used and not just something you hope to sell to someone who is not aware that he could over gear what you make in 8 daily commendations.

 

As per now, let the columi level schematics mats drop in raids only..

 

just a few ideas to try improve the current lack lustre system. I'm not saying they are great, but just something to ponder over

[pokota]

First, before I get into the crafting system, I'd like to talk about Slicing. The OP makes it sound like a bad skill, but that's far from the truth. At level 50, Slicing is pretty good at making credits on its own. Not the best, but still very good. It's streaky, however, with many of your missions resulting in a loss, which fools a lot of people into thinking that it's a waste of time. It only takes a few nice crits however, to turn things around. I've sold at least four unlocked mission items today, for instance, with two of them going for 19.5k each.

 

Where Slicing really shines, however, is in the way it compliments other skills. Most of my Scavenging and Underground Trading materials come from those unlocked mission items. A level 340 will return at least 30k worth of mats for Scavenging, and at least 50k worth of mats for UT. The more gathering and mission skills you have across all your characters, the more valuable Slicing is. It's good at a direct source of wealth, but fantastic as an indirect source. I consider it a very important crafting support skill.

 

Now, as far as crafting goes, it does need a lot of work, and they made a lot of mistakes in a lot of places, but I don't think it's an inherently broken system.

 

The main problems for high level crafting, as I see it, are:

• The randomized stats you can get on a high level purple are horrible. If you're not going to allow people to select which schematic they're going to get, then at least put some time into the itemization process. Wasting a critical roll with a +presence is unacceptable.
  

• "You already have that schematic." Incredibly frustrating. Take it out.
  

• The invalidation of select segments of level 49+ crafting with incredibly easy to obtain BoE items. Currently, the GTN is being flooded with Armoring and Mods people have obtained from turning in commendations or as quest rewards, which are listed FOR LESS THAN HALF of what it costs a crafter to create them. That's messed up, and a big mistake. Even just turning these into BoP would help, even if it wouldn't solve the entire problem.
  

• The idea of getting an augment slot on a critical is pretty bad. It requires people to make pieces they do not want in order to get something that they do want. It would be better if slotted pieces were separate options that required like 5x the mats of a normal piece, OR you got a much higher return on materials when you RE'd a purple that you didn't need.
  

• Give us hotkeys to open our craft windows so we can see what schematics we have and what materials they need. Having to exit the GTN just to check stuff like that is annoying.
  

 

I don't personally have a problem with the actual RE rate for getting a purple. It should take a considerable investment of both time and money. My average for level 49 Earpieces is around 60 attempts, last I checked, and I'm fine with that. A purple isn't something you should get easily. However, it shouldn't take 200+ attempts just to get something worth crafting because you got unlucky on your criticals and hit a garbage schematic you'll never make.

 

Fix the issues I've listed and it would go a long, long way toward making me content with this system.

[MarcosAguila]

 

The main problems for high level crafting, as I see it, are:

• The randomized stats you can get on a high level purple are horrible. If you're not going to allow people to select which schematic they're going to get, then at least put some time into the itemization process. Wasting a critical roll with a +presence is unacceptable.
  

• "You already have that schematic." Incredibly frustrating. Take it out.
  

• The invalidation of select segments of level 49+ crafting with incredibly easy to obtain BoE items. Currently, the GTN is being flooded with Armoring and Mods people have obtained from turning in commendations or as quest rewards, which are listed FOR LESS THAN HALF of what it costs a crafter to create them. That's messed up, and a big mistake. Even just turning these into BoP would help, even if it wouldn't solve the entire problem.
  

• The idea of getting an augment slot on a critical is pretty bad. It requires people to make pieces they do not want in order to get something that they do want. It would be better if slotted pieces were separate options that required like 5x the mats of a normal piece, OR you got a much higher return on materials when you RE'd a purple that you didn't need.
  

• Give us hotkeys to open our craft windows so we can see what schematics we have and what materials they need. Having to exit the GTN just to check stuff like that is annoying.
  

 

Fix the issues I've listed and it would go a long, long way toward making me content with this system.

 

I didnt know people were selling items they got from comms and missions on the GTN. Not good news, im assuming you mean the BOE items. Folks wanna talk about BoP thats where you do it but if it were up to me there would be no comms to trade in for gear at all. Hot keys sounds good.

 

Id probably prefer to have all gear orange (crafted of course) if we could get sustainable tweaks in place for it and a rework going.

 

I think people have mentioned the issue where for instance crew skill mission returns makes everything close. That is annoying and yes it does happen on the GTN and yes it sucks. Cant disagree much here.

Edited February 20, 2012 by MarcosAguila

[sly_swg]

calling this crafting would be an insult to games actually containing crafting...

 

collect A + B, press button = C mean an assembly system.

 

crafting implies the crafter can influence the outcome, which you can't here.

 

I don't care how they repackage this assembly system, it will remain poor untill the crafter can actually do something but press the "create" button and RE fixed recipes.

 

 

Could we please stop giving the assembly system in place credibility by calling it "crafting"?

[BombzAway]

crapping system

[Geewiz]

Maybe they should remove all commendations from planets and the corresponding vendors. Then people would rely on crafters, and the items would bring in more money.

 

Also give every crafting professsion something that helps post 50. (Then biochem will not be the only option)

[DawnAskham]

Maybe they should remove all commendations from planets and the corresponding vendors. Then people would rely on crafters, and the items would bring in more money.

 

Also give every crafting professsion something that helps post 50. (Then biochem will not be the only option)

 

Disagree. Though all commendation items should be BOP or maybe BOA (bind on account) for players to pass stuff to alts but not sell / trade to others.

 

Mods available to most classes while leveling are already sub par and several levels behind what you could get from crafted items, they just need to make creating and selling items easier while leveling (from better returns on missions to get mats to better re rates to a putting a GTN on planets at main base with a UI that doesn't suck).

 

They should also remove the perfectly itemized mods on the commendation vendors and leave just the blue Force Wielder / Commando / Patron type mods.

 

At 50, crafters should be able to make items for most slots on par with flashpoint / entry level raiding gear that is better than any stuff available from running dailies, and which does not require random dropped BOP items or schematics from end-game content, though it should require rare mats to create.

Edited February 20, 2012 by DawnAskham

[skaidar]

Why in every criticizing topic some random people pop up defending the game like we are attacking their own personality? Understand that the game have TONS of problems and need to be fixed, and you are not helping ANYONE by defending your own opinions

[Esproc]

Dailies should not be better than top end crafted.

 

Top end crafted should be more than just 47-49 on many of the crafts, all should be up to 50.

 

Commendations should be either BoP/BoA and not allowed on the GTN.

 

Commendation vendors at the lower levels should be limited in the 2 comms a mod deal, and perhaps limited to the greens only as well, and BoP/BoA.

 

This would help make Crafts more viable or everyone may as well do Biochem, oh, here comes the Nerf Hammer.

[Aerithel]

As much as I want to participate in crafting, I keep doubting myself about whether or not it's worth the grind for everything except Biochem on my main, allowing my alts access to blue-quality stims while leveling (medpacks are a non-issue, thanks to being a healer or healing companion) and at end-game. I'm as big about end-game viability as I am use while leveling, and from much of what I read on the forums, I have little incentive to pursue other crafting skills because both uses are lacking.

 

I've a Sorcerer I started going Artifice with, since I'm leveling her with my boyfriend's Juggernaut. I figured this would let us be able to spend commendations on armoring, mods, etc. and I could cover the enhancements, color crystals, and offhands for both of us. However, I find myself already lagging behind with what I can craft without having to constantly send my companions on missions, as I'd much rather just be able to use whatever I collect from world spawned nodes. It becomes, "Well these crafted items would be nice, but they aren't necessary and this'll turn into a money sink, so why bother now?" Slicing it is.

 

The same really goes for my Bounty Hunter alt, which I wanted to toss Armormech (with both supporting crew skills) on so I could craft blue-quality belts/wrists and other gear for not just myself, but ALL of my companions, since they're all non-force users. Again, I'm afraid of lagging behind on materials, or finding that the effort put into leveling up this crafting crew skill won't produce enough of a justifiable result to have it while leveling. It's another, "Well these crafted items would be nice, but they aren't necessary and this'll turn into a money sink, so why bother now?" Slicing it is.

 

That said, I'm likely just better off doing what I did on my Sniper - take the two supporting crew skills for the desired end-game crafting crew skill along with Slicing until I hit Level 50 on each, then drop it to pick up Artifice/Armormech. This lets me just "wait and see" what happens with the crew skills, and at least this way, I know I'll have a pure-profit setup.

 

I'm just lost with what to do at this point.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Aerithel

[pokota]

It becomes, "Well these crafted items would be nice, but they aren't necessary and this'll turn into a money sink, so why bother now?" Slicing it is.

 

I've said it many times, but if SWTOR were to restart, I wouldn't go with a crafting skill while leveling. I would go gathering/mission skills, gear up with a combination of commendation items, quest rewards, loot drops, and fill in the blanks with purchases from the GTN, and hit level 50 with a few million credits in my pocket. There is absolutely no need to keep your gear topped off in this game. You could level up all in green gear, if you wanted.

 

I had Cybertech maxed out before I was level 30, but by that point I was already ignoring the ability to make armoring and mods. It just wasn't worth the investment to me, not when I had plenty of commendations to spend.

 

I agree with you, Crafting isn't something that anyone really needs until they hit 50. I'm not saying a person shouldn't get into crafting, because that's a personal choice, but it's not needed one bit, and can actually leave you scrambling to pay for skills and speeder training.

[grania]

I'm trying to figure whether or not there is a way to search the market only for schematics you don't already know. I realized I was able to see, buy and even use schematics that I already had.

 

What's worse is that I'm unable to keep the market window open at the same time as the crafting window, so I can't check to see if I have it or not unless I open and close windows a lot and hope I remember exactly what the recipes are called.