PvP Game Designers: Please come in here and join a DIALOG before you ruin the game

[ademnus]

firstly, i'm glad to see them implement a quitter debuff. Its about time. Secondly,

 

"And here some of my solutions:

 

- From the fleet there should be a direct teleport to the Ilum Base, and back. Available ANYTIME.

 

yeah so this way you trounce the enemy once and their entire faction floods in. Bad idea.

 

- PvPers should be incentived to LOG OUT in Ilum. For example, create a fortress in the middle of the fighting area. Who owns the fortress has access to a newly designed single player flashpoint that gives PvP rewards.

 

huh? You want everyone to want to log out in ilum so...they can what? All log in en masse when told on their alt there's ripe for the picking enemy faction there? And you want a pve instance that gives pvp rewards to farm for the imbalanced faction? Seriously? bad bad idea.

 

- Make the bases be full featured PvP and PvE quest hubs like imperial fleet. There should be no reason to visit imperial fleet anymore or the rep equivalent.

 

well they dont want the fleet to be a ghost town, for one. For another, I'd rather see the pve elements moved to an entirely different planet. Sick of seeing 20 ppl oin the zone and only have 4 in an ops because 16 are doing dailies.

 

- What happens in Ilum has to affect anyone, anywhere. Build incentive to go to Ilum. Yes, its instanced, thats bad. So how about this: The faction that lost the most cities in the last 60 minutes will get a -2% Damage and Heal debuff, unless they have an Ilum Hero Buff that they get by fighting in Ilum for a few mins. Example. There are better ideas, I am sure. Have players want to be in Ilum, and if only for short periods of time.

 

again, im sure that'll be great fun for the imbalanced faction on a server and zero fun for the other one.

[skyflash]

firstly, i'm glad to see them implement a quitter debuff. Its about time.

 

yeah so this way you trounce the enemy once and their entire faction floods in. Bad idea.

 

huh? You want everyone to want to log out in ilum so...they can what? All log in en masse when told on their alt there's ripe for the picking enemy faction there? And you want a pve instance that gives pvp rewards to farm for the imbalanced faction? Seriously? bad bad idea.

 

well they dont want the fleet to be a ghost town, for one. For another, I'd rather see the pve elements moved to an entirely different planet. Sick of seeing 20 ppl oin the zone and only have 4 in an ops because 16 are doing dailies.

 

again, im sure that'll be great fun for the imbalanced faction on a server and zero fun for the other one.

 

They didnt say they implement a quitters debuff. They said they implement an AFKer vote system and that quitting is not sanctioned. Whatever that means.

 

They should live in Ilum... PvPers should live in Ilum, just like PvEers live in Imperial fleet and equiv. The reason for that is that Ilum should not be deserted the whole day except for the one hour a day when kill trading takes place.

 

If the whole enemy faction comes to Ilum, then PvP there would be perfect... enough people, lots of instances, lots of fun. You dont want PvPers in Ilum to fight them, or what is your point?

 

The imbalanced factions are not a problem, if you read my WHOLE post and not just a few sentences. First there is the idea of balancing with companions, secondly if the instance cap is moved to a sensible value you will never get stomped in Ilum because the enemy wont be allowed to bring 30 people more to the party. It will either be roughly balanced or there wont be any PvP.

 

The imbalanced factions will have to be fixed, so don't use them as an argument against sensible PvP objectives and rewards. I think the companion system can do that, with some tweaking.

[dcgregorya]

The people here think that Bioware doesn't grasp what good PVP is and that's just not it.

 

They understand it but balancing **** and getting it perfected is a PITA that takes time and money.

 

Given how wildly popular warzones are I'm sure they'll add more dedication to fine tuning the PVP in the game.

 

Here's an example:

 

Good PVP requires well designed, smoothly operating warzones that can handle a decent number of people. The amount of things that statement implies really boils down to time, money and bodies looking at it.

 

I'm not in the camp of "guys its only 2 months old give it another 3 years" but in this case, it's something more like "guys they tried to please everyone with the first release and make their deadlines, give them a month to refocus around what the players want".

 

You can just tell looking at their pipeline that they anticipated a much heavier player emphasis on PVE than PVP. But things change, hopefully they'll adapt.

Edited February 19, 2012 by dcgregorya

[golfwang]

The people here think that Bioware doesn't grasp what good PVP is and that's just not it.

 

They understand it but balancing **** and getting it perfected is a PITA that takes time and money.

 

What, out of everything you've seen from them, can possibly lead you to believe that?

[skyflash]

The people here think that Bioware doesn't grasp what good PVP is and that's just not it.

They understand it but balancing **** and getting it perfected is a PITA that takes time and money.

 

Well, there even is an interview that you can google where they say Ilum in its broken form is a good thing and will be fun.

 

The guys that made Ilum do not understand PvP. They do not understand it because they do not understand PvPers and what they want from a game.

 

There is no way Ilum was designed by someone who knows PvP. They probably had someone make it that had no clue, then later they realized their mistake, put in the Mythic staff but it was too late to fix it cause the zone was done and no time to change it (and lets be honest, the zone would be a complete redo from scratch).

 

****ed it up, realized too late, looked for someone competent, no time left -> Ilum.

 

Something along those lines probably.

[golfwang]

Well, there even is an interview that you can google where they say Ilum in its broken form is a good thing and will be fun.

 

The guys that made Ilum do not understand PvP. They do not understand it because they do not understand PvPers and what they want from a game.

 

There is no way Ilum was designed by someone who knows PvP. They probably had someone make it that had no clue, then later they realized their mistake, put in the Mythic staff but it was too late to fix it cause the zone was done and no time to change it (and lets be honest, the zone would be a complete redo from scratch).

 

****ed it up, realized too late, looked for someone competent, no time left -> Ilum.

 

Something along those lines probably.

 

I completely agree. In fact, take a listen to this interview of Gabe Amatangelo (head of pvp) from November of last year:

 

http://torwars.com/2011/11/09/audio-gabe-amatangelo-discusses-ilum-and-open-world-pvp/

 

The most absurd moment for me is when he expects 20 players to willingly fight against 100. Clueless.

Edited February 19, 2012 by golfwang

[skyflash]

I completely agree. In fact, take a listen to this interview of Gabe Amatangelo (head of pvp) from November of last year:

http://torwars.com/2011/11/09/audio-gabe-amatangelo-discusses-ilum-and-open-world-pvp/

The most absurd moment for me is when he expects 20 players to willingly fight against 100. Clueless.

 

LOL yeah thats pretty funny actually.

 

Main thing I am wondering is.... did they actually design it for 100 vs 100 without first checking that the engine can do it?

[equeone]

The problem is.. is that this engine just cant handle ALL the PVPers being in the same place, all the time.

 

Its an unresponsive, ranged class dominated, slideshow when more than 20 people are fighting.

 

They have all these wonderfully designed planets, but no-one goes back to them after leveling!

 

I'd much prefer to see a GALACTIC WAR spreading PvPers across objectives on many planets to

1) utilise underused content.

2) break up the framerate killing zerg.

3) keep it in the style of Star Wars... pretty sure all the fighting didnt just happen on one boring ice rock throughout the 6 movies.

 

This however is what happens usually when PvP isnt incorporated in the game design process from the very beginning, and is tacked on in the closing stages of development as an afterthought...

 

I have to agree! makes no sense that we never come back to the planets where we did lvl up.. Add valor gained from kills in world pvp, i couldnt believe that i didnt get anything from killing 2 republic players on a pvp server..

[RedEnsign]

They won't show up. MMO Dev is one of 2 profession where you are rewarded (hired again) for failing. The other is NFL Head Coach. They know that no matter how badly the PvP in this game fails, they can always land another job because MMO experience means more than succeeding at it on a resume.

[Sundragon]

As far as Ilum PvP goes, there has to be some core changes before you even try to figure out what to fix.

 

The core changes should be discussions around the following:

 

1) What are they fighting over?

In other words, the fights should have some kind of meaning to the game/players. In DAOC, you fought to eventually capture relics that gave your side a small boost. This inspired pride in one's realm. Right now, the only reason to fight is to finish the daily objective to get gear. This is repeated over and over by players in Ilum that they leave as soon as their quest is done.

 

2) What motivates players to PvP?

Right now, the only motivation is to get better gear by doing the dailies/weekly PvP quests. What is the motivation after you have all Battlemaster gear? You get a title? Really? That's it? Why isn't there some kind of modest progression for your character beyond a title? Something to fight for that motivates players to keep fighting usually does it. Static gear that eventually runs out does not do it.

 

 

3) If we have in-between objectives, shouldn't it be meaningful?

While the final objective is addressed in question #1, there are smaller objectives that can be fought over. Right now on Ilum, if you want to take southern assault, it takes 1 person about 1 minute to do it. That's silly! Shouldn't it take a bit longer? Shouldn't there be a way to defend it? Forts, bunkers, something that can be captured and defended (for a reasonable modest bonus) would be a bit better than flipping an objective by 1 person in under 1 minute. Come on, put some thought into this and make it better. For example, in Warhammer once you secured the forward objective it locked the previous objectives, and eventually progressed to the final objective. This kind of stuff has been done in so many different PvP MMOs, I can't believe the way the objectives are done in Ilum.

 

Once you figure out those 3 questions, go back and re-design Ilum. If you try to redesign Ilum without answering those 3 questions, you'll fail at open world PvP design. Trying to take everyone's commentary about Ilum should have this or Ilum should have that is silly until you can answer those 3 basic design questions.

 

Seriously, it's a bit sad that I have to point these basic open-world PvP designs out since I would have assumed they were somewhat basic things discussed when making PvP in an MMO game.

[Odyssean]

Good thread. Good discussion.

 

Sundragon poses the right questions to be anwered, for a World PvP fix.

 

If i may add a fourth one.

 

After we implement our ideas, can they run it or it will turn to a slideshow?

[TMar]

Copying a working system and improving it is fine, as long as there is SOMETHING innovative.

 

Not very specific now are we... Are you trying to say that Blizzard innovated on their BG's because they didn't, not even slightly. At least Bioware tried in huttball with the 3 dimensional field and hazards to set it apart.

 

As long as the layout is good and the combat is fluid there isn't much need to innovate on the game mechanics so much. I just have a problem with people say that warzone are a ripoff of WoW when they are tried and true games (capture the flag, capture the base and king of the hill) that have been round long before warcraft.

[Metalmac]

Before? they ruin the game?

 

Anyway if they just had copied the PVP from WoW, like they did with 90% of the rest of the game, it would actually be good, or at least a lot better than its current state.

 

NO I LEFT WOW FOR THE SAME REASONS YOU LIKE IT! Go back to WoW if you want WoW.

[skyflash]

Not very specific now are we... Are you trying to say that Blizzard innovated on their BG's because they didn't, not even slightly. At least Bioware tried in huttball with the 3 dimensional field and hazards to set it apart.

 

Yes they did innovate on it. Alterac valley was pretty innovative before they ruined it instead of just fixing it to be slightly better.

 

But anyway, its not just the warzones, WoW pretty much innovated the whole genre, so I would not single out warzones.

 

Anyway, this should be about SWTOR and THEIR problem, WOW obviously doesn't really have many design problems at this point in time but it's still old and... old.

 

I just wish Bioware would start talking here, cause quite frankly if there is no huge roadmap being laid out somewhere where this game will be going with PvP I am gonna unsub and never come back.

 

All my colleagues more or less silent quit already (subscription running but don't come online anymore) so the only thing holding me still is my sub running and the hope that they will create great endgame open world PvP. Cause with PvE, they are so far behind the timeline, there is no way they can produce PvE content faster than I can consume it so it will keep me busy.

 

Bioware, PvP is THE ONLY ENDGAME CONTENT that is constantly being used... PvE will run out fast. PvE is theme park, PvP can be sandbox. Use it's power!

[Vales]

Please tell me you are not serious? SWTOR has the worst PvP of any MMO i've every played. It's not even close.

 

Let's see. There are poorly designed Warzones that are nothing but zerg fests; little strategy. Small Warzones (let me know when there's one that's not lol8v8). Warzone objectives that are ripped off straight from WoW. World PvP that serves no purpose. Unbalanced MIRROR classes. Animation and FPS issues. Failed resolve and CC system. The worst UI of any modern MMO. Abnormally long queues. Terrible reward system. No deserter penalty. I could go on and on. Heck, i haven't even mentioned the mess that is Ilum yet.

 

It's fine if you want to be a fanboy. But trying to convince everyone that SWTOR has better PvP than a polished/mature game like WoW is laughable at best.

 

What are you talking about? Random BGs in WoW are just as much of a zerg fest as randm WZs here no difference.

Did you actually play WoW? I did for 7 years nearly exclusively PvP, soloed rank 10 (roughly 90% of it) on a server where it takes you 6-7 hours per day over 2 months to get that. I had one of the best premades on my server in classic which I had formed from randoms. I made it to duelist in TBC with a gimped setup.

I was for sure not the best player around but I was always decent if I cared to organize.

 

The WZs are better designed than any of BG bar AB.

Blizzard ripped BG design off FPS shooters like Unreal Tournament so please spare the crap that WZs are "ripped off" BlW just did what Blizzrd did ALL the time, "ripping off" other games, you are just being ignorant for not noticing.

The deserter system in WoW doesn't work, especially in late nights a dozen bots in every BG. Tons of exploiters like speed hackers around.

Tons of abuses which Blizzard did nothing about in arena especially in this expansion like mmr abuse in S9 (lol@ russian team being at 3600 rating)

Class balance is garbage rogues being able to kill people in 2! seconds with legendary daggers and vial. Mages killing people in one DF especially with trinket and legendary staff. UH DK in S5 was a pure joke, the newly introduced class domiates everything and stomped 2v2 with Holy pala so hard it wasn't funny anymore. SL/SL Lock/Resto Druid dominance in S2. Druid/War dominance in S3/S4. RMP dominance in 3s since arena released with few exceptions. Wizard cleaves in S8 blowing people up in a GCD same for Beastcleave all they had to do was Popping BL and focus one target.

DR systems is not any better than resolve. Tons of teams around which can easily circumvent the DR limitation and can CC the crap out of you like RMP or MLD. Heck frost mages still can take out a warrior for about a minute solo. I wish people who complain about knockbacks here should try to play a warrior against a frost mage in WoW. Not even remotely comparable.

Classic was even worse one shots all around, rogues being able to stun lock people from 100% - 0% with NO chance to fight back at all.

AP/PoM mages one shotting people. "As scandy" warriros with minimal support shredding through BGs. Druids being pure garbage not even having a working shapeshift ability and primarily used for Innervate in raids nothing else.

 

What is better in WoW UI? Nothing bar the fact you can move around targetting frames which they already work on.

Abnormally long queues? I play on a heavy population server and have 1 minute queues max.

 

WoW mature? Where? When? With all the silly festivals like Winter's Veil, Brewing , Noble Garden etc?

 

World PvP objectives without purpose? Like Achindoun desert, Halaa, Silithius or WLP towers which all failed horribly?

 

What WoW is more polished than SWTOR? Did you just compare a game which got about 8 years of polish to a game which had like a mere 2 months of that time? Did you actuallty play WoW like I did since Classic Beta? Really?

 

Please get a clue before you start ranting your ignorant nonsense it makes you look like a tool.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Vales

[me_unknown]

LOL yeah thats pretty funny actually.

 

Main thing I am wondering is.... did they actually design it for 100 vs 100 without first checking that the engine can do it?

 

designing pvp for 100vs100 while the server only seems to support around 200 of each faction is stupid on its own!

 

actually the capacities are FAR FAR too low. they should at least triple the number of players per server (while a "server" should actually be a cluster of more than one servers, loadbalancing over planets, flashpoints etc).

 

i am on a claimed well populated server and you wait hours to get 4 players together for a flashpoint. illum as big as it is usually has only <10 players per fraction on it. on the fleet you have between 50 and 90 players and another c.a. 100 players are distributed among the other players leveling.

 

at least warzones are popping up pretty fast.

[Vischna]

Pls Bioware and EA , look What Mythic did with DAoC and implent it.

Takeable (defendable) fortresses, datacrons (relics?) that give all ( Pvp and pve) bonusses when captured (+10% casting dmg, mêlee dmg, new dungeons that open upon achieving victory like Darkness Falls ) .

Give THE players à goal to fight about and get some faction proudness instead of some mindless daily kills and return to be afk .

Give THE playerbase THE epic battles we are longing for, u got THE gamedesign for it when u bought out mythic, now implent it pls. It Will only get your subscription up by millions.

Let TOR become DAOC, NeXT generation.

Every old DAoC player Will know what I mean

 

If any typo's , sorry english isn't my motherlanguage .

[skyflash]

Pls Bioware and EA , look What Mythic did with DAoC and implent it.

 

Give THE playerbase THE epic battles we are longing for, u got THE gamedesign for it when u bought out mythic, now implent it pls. It Will only get your subscription up by millions.

 

Well, SWTOR is not a DAoC. It cant handle epic PvP battles.

 

But what it can do is create moderately sized, fun open world PvP, and yes I do believe this would bring tons of further subscriptions.

[skyflash]

Any hope of a dev answering?

 

Or maybe just drop a line that you are preparing a blog about Ilum changes if you wanna do that?

[Sybaris]

Any hope of a dev answering?

 

Or maybe just drop a line that you are preparing a blog about Ilum changes if you wanna do that?

 

They will not respond to this thread. Apparently, this giant elephant in the room is to ugly to address, so much so that they resort to deleting postings (in this very thread) regardless of whether the poster followed forum guidelines. I posted my feelings on the state of end-game and open world pvp earnestly and respectfully, only to be slapped in the face by a moderator.

I asked them to re-evaluate their design teams direction with ilum and to actually inform their customers on things that we really care about, not titillate us with superficial Q&A sessions where they pick only the questions involving smaller issues. I even signed off with -A most loyal customer. The audacity of that moderator, makes me sick. I would say this may be a unique case, but I'm starting to think it's that organizational environment that fosters such behavior. I don't usually write this formally, but I think this particular situation warrants it.

 

- A decreasingly loyal customer.

[Galvatron]

The fact is they have the team and the developers that know what works and what is fun in world pvp. Warhammer and DOAC has fun open world pvp..

 

I just wonder who is holding them back?

[Jigerix]

First.. this is what we know about the coming changes... and those posts are contradicting:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So what exactly are we supposed to be getting? A quitter debuff? (however its not sanctioned behaviour? Hu?) An AFK voting system? Rewards for winning? No rewards for winning but for objectives? Both?

 

Now, before you go and ruin the game by doing stuff that does not work, could someone of your team that KNOWS what is coming (one of the two above obviously does not know) and explain it to us, so we can get a meaningful discussion going here?

 

You said its OUR game, so please talk to US before you do major changes that can range from creating nice PvP to ruining PvP for everyone.

 

Also.. please come here and tell us about Ilum. What are you going to do in Ilum?

 

-------------------------------------------------------------

 

Here my personal thoughts about Ilum:

 

I think I can safely say Ilum is terminally broken without any big objections, right? From the game design standpoint:

 

- Ilum is much too large for the players that can actually participate (in the order of 5x too large)

- Ilum is completely static, so there is no way to balance anything like NPCs

- Objectives in Ilum are not meaningful

- If there arent enemy players, Ilum is DEAD. There is no way to hurt the enemy other than collecting crates (no fun). Nothing to see or do.

- You can not make the enemy come to Ilum, cause they do not care what you do there

- Ilum is far away and you cannot actually make your character live there, its not a hub, it doesnt have all the accesses readily available (bank, mail, repair, travel, PvP quests, FP quests, FP access, trainers)

- Everytime you do PvP in Ilum, go to a WZ in between and your loading screen takes too long, you end up in imperial fleet.. again.

- Ilum should be the MAIN location for PvPing. It should be your main focus for fixing PvP. All true PvPers should constantly be around or in Ilum. Why arent they? PvE players are at the fleet.. fine. But why are PvPers there as well?

 

And here some of my solutions:

 

- From the fleet there should be a direct teleport to the Ilum Base, and back. Available ANYTIME.

 

- PvPers should be incentived to LOG OUT in Ilum. For example, create a fortress in the middle of the fighting area. Who owns the fortress has access to a newly designed single player flashpoint that gives PvP rewards.

 

- Make the bases be full featured PvP and PvE quest hubs like imperial fleet. There should be no reason to visit imperial fleet anymore or the rep equivalent.

 

- What happens in Ilum has to affect anyone, anywhere. Build incentive to go to Ilum. Yes, its instanced, thats bad. So how about this: The faction that lost the most cities in the last 60 minutes will get a -2% Damage and Heal debuff, unless they have an Ilum Hero Buff that they get by fighting in Ilum for a few mins. Example. There are better ideas, I am sure. Have players want to be in Ilum, and if only for short periods of time.

 

- Cut Ilum down in size! Two bases, a big "city" in the middle, thats it. Cut down useless wastelands. Remove the huge obstacles in Ilum everywhere and the massive mountains. Make it accessible. Doesnt have to be a city, can be a fortress, whatever. A meaningful objective. If you own the fortress, your base can be destroyed. If you do not own the fortress, your base is safe. Make it an attack and defend game.

 

- Allow sneaky ways to get objectives. Go down and sneak into the back entrance, plant a bomb, blow it up... a few people inside the fortress die. (Of course tell them there is someone sneaking in before that). Create stuff that SINGLE players can do alone, create objectives that require groups or operations.

 

- Control the amount of people in Ilum. If the enemy has less players, allow them to bring their companions. ALL OF THEM, at the same time. This also fixes the issues of the worthless equipping of companions. If someone is alone in Ilum and there are ten enemies, let him take out his 6 companions and fight with them.

 

TLDR: Make Ilum THE place for PvPers. All PvPers should be in Ilum, all the time. If they aren't, something is wrong.

 

Hope to have a nice discussion here, HOPEFULLY with some DEV comment, because all PvPers are raging in the forum, but there is no real response on what is really happening with PvP in SWTOR.

 

We need a DEV blog filled up with everything coming for PvP in the next time, remember that for many of us this either makes or breaks SWTOR.

 

 

 

Ok OP so what you're saying is, BW should add a more rewards for empire for dominating Ilum (cause we all know republic is outnumbered, outgeared and has worse animations - which translates into worse pvp performance in this game)?

 

And companion idea, sir i lol at you, good day!

[Typheran]

A Dev posting in the PVP section is like a 7 foot tall asian guy with red hair named buck, Sure, they might exist.. but I've never seen one.

[davetrump]

The community doesn't know what the **** they're talking about nine times out of ten.

 

I don't know about you, but I don't want fourteen year olds having a say in what changes are made to the game I play.

 

TBH "the community" seems to know more about how to make decent PVP than anyone working at bioware.

[kanun]

First.. this is what we know about the coming changes... and those posts are contradicting:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So what exactly are we supposed to be getting? A quitter debuff? (however its not sanctioned behaviour? Hu?) An AFK voting system? Rewards for winning? No rewards for winning but for objectives? Both?

 

Now, before you go and ruin the game by doing stuff that does not work, could someone of your team that KNOWS what is coming (one of the two above obviously does not know) and explain it to us, so we can get a meaningful discussion going here?

 

You said its OUR game, so please talk to US before you do major changes that can range from creating nice PvP to ruining PvP for everyone.

 

Also.. please come here and tell us about Ilum. What are you going to do in Ilum?

 

-------------------------------------------------------------

 

Here my personal thoughts about Ilum:

 

I think I can safely say Ilum is terminally broken without any big objections, right? From the game design standpoint:

 

- Ilum is much too large for the players that can actually participate (in the order of 5x too large)

- Ilum is completely static, so there is no way to balance anything like NPCs

- Objectives in Ilum are not meaningful

- If there arent enemy players, Ilum is DEAD. There is no way to hurt the enemy other than collecting crates (no fun). Nothing to see or do.

- You can not make the enemy come to Ilum, cause they do not care what you do there

- Ilum is far away and you cannot actually make your character live there, its not a hub, it doesnt have all the accesses readily available (bank, mail, repair, travel, PvP quests, FP quests, FP access, trainers)

- Everytime you do PvP in Ilum, go to a WZ in between and your loading screen takes too long, you end up in imperial fleet.. again.

- Ilum should be the MAIN location for PvPing. It should be your main focus for fixing PvP. All true PvPers should constantly be around or in Ilum. Why arent they? PvE players are at the fleet.. fine. But why are PvPers there as well?

 

And here some of my solutions:

 

- From the fleet there should be a direct teleport to the Ilum Base, and back. Available ANYTIME.

 

- PvPers should be incentived to LOG OUT in Ilum. For example, create a fortress in the middle of the fighting area. Who owns the fortress has access to a newly designed single player flashpoint that gives PvP rewards.

 

- Make the bases be full featured PvP and PvE quest hubs like imperial fleet. There should be no reason to visit imperial fleet anymore or the rep equivalent.

 

- What happens in Ilum has to affect anyone, anywhere. Build incentive to go to Ilum. Yes, its instanced, thats bad. So how about this: The faction that lost the most cities in the last 60 minutes will get a -2% Damage and Heal debuff, unless they have an Ilum Hero Buff that they get by fighting in Ilum for a few mins. Example. There are better ideas, I am sure. Have players want to be in Ilum, and if only for short periods of time.

 

- Cut Ilum down in size! Two bases, a big "city" in the middle, thats it. Cut down useless wastelands. Remove the huge obstacles in Ilum everywhere and the massive mountains. Make it accessible. Doesnt have to be a city, can be a fortress, whatever. A meaningful objective. If you own the fortress, your base can be destroyed. If you do not own the fortress, your base is safe. Make it an attack and defend game.

 

- Allow sneaky ways to get objectives. Go down and sneak into the back entrance, plant a bomb, blow it up... a few people inside the fortress die. (Of course tell them there is someone sneaking in before that). Create stuff that SINGLE players can do alone, create objectives that require groups or operations.

 

- Control the amount of people in Ilum. If the enemy has less players, allow them to bring their companions. ALL OF THEM, at the same time. This also fixes the issues of the worthless equipping of companions. If someone is alone in Ilum and there are ten enemies, let him take out his 6 companions and fight with them.

 

TLDR: Make Ilum THE place for PvPers. All PvPers should be in Ilum, all the time. If they aren't, something is wrong.

 

Hope to have a nice discussion here, HOPEFULLY with some DEV comment, because all PvPers are raging in the forum, but there is no real response on what is really happening with PvP in SWTOR.

 

We need a DEV blog filled up with everything coming for PvP in the next time, remember that for many of us this either makes or breaks SWTOR.

 

I am totaly agree with skyflash mate. 1 more thing I hate at ilum: the LAGGS. My screen is frozen all time(even I decrease all graphic options to minimum. I played lineage 2 for 4 years there was huge battles for castles, at least near 200-300(max) players(realy huge battles; even the world boss operation I was seeing near 200 players at same time and no lags), there was hardly lags ;or I have played aion for 2 years, at fortress battles when there were around 100-200 people around, we were decreasing the graphic options to min. then everything was going on nicely without any problems while getting fortress and doing pvp at same time. I have played the WoW for 2 years: its battlegrounds-pvp zones were all awesome there was 0 lags(yes I am saying 0 lags) with huge groups. I am asking this so : why bioware cannot do these things too?

 

Another mmo I played is Rift online: this game feature I like too. Rifts are opening you fight against the rift mobs/invasions/bosses etc. (FURTHERMORE npc(s) are getting your outpost: you try to cover your base ;but you can lose too, you try to get your outposts again/attacker mode. You gettting fun from pvp too cool pvp / pve bonuses while you do it you can do pvp too without any lags(NO LAGS). I am not trying to revile against swtor (I left my other mmo(s) becaue of swtor, swtor is a legend with its everything)

 

Bioware should take good examples from these other mmo(s). It is not stealing sth because the idea of pvp and pve is same for all mmo games(battlegrounds/pvp zones/fortresses/castles etc.) ;just ,ofc,the contents and names must be different to make your own mmo unique(it is already nesessary).

 

SWTOR would be more better at pvp (its pve is aswesome already). The new mmo(s) will be come so bioware should tidy up themself and listen the customers/players thoughts more deeply. (closing the threads or delaying them doesn'T change anything...)

 

Last thing I want to add here, make better the trooper commando healing class plz, I like healing but when I face against to a player I cannot defend myself ,after a while I am dying at the end it is sad realy. as commando healer my debuff skill is realy weak ; or too much casting time at my main 2 healing skills too ,and decrease the cooldown of my shield skill too (it has 2 min. cd but lasts realy less- I cannot survive at pvp zones or at ilum, healers are the first target to destroy at pvp, everyone knows it. (sorc or jedi consular healers can open shield when ever they want , it is realy unfair to commando healers ;and jedi consular or sorc healers at least can do more things to survive at battle than trooper commando healer. That'S all I want to say, I hope bioware listen to us, thx all, may the force with you.