Please buff the Huttball hazards in endgame PVP

[Ortof]

Another thread, by another fresh 50... who cant accept the fact that he needs to learn to play.

 

 

The 50 bracket is fine. Hutball is fine. The skills are fine. Just these fresh 50's dont know anything about how to play their classes. The reason the 1-49 brackets were fun to you was because you were horrible at playing your class.

 

 

Welcome to the 50's bracket. Learn to play or get out, because the other 50's dont want to dumb things down so you can be bad and win.

 

/golfclap You have found the first MMORPG in HISTORY with no PVP changes needed to either classes/specs or maps.

 

Wow really man, you skipped everything he said about dropping the ball would encourage team play, which it actually would and everything else and you think he wants it dumbed down? LOL

 

I take it your BM Sorc that grapples all day would be a bit hurt by this. It's ok though, you can always engage the other team rather than chain grapple.

[Adzzy]

I suggested that very same thing awhile ago and got bombarded with the typical herp derp L2P. When in fact all I was wanting to do was not only level the playing field, but prevent the "ball" from scoring in under 10 seconds and touching the ground 3-4 times.

 

I think "dropping the ball" when grappled at least would solve the majority of it as you can stack grapples. For instance Sorc at Point A, one at point B etc etc. Leap on the other hand to me really isn't an issue as you can't stack them. Meaning once the guy leaps, that's it, he either HAS to run or HAS to pass despite multiple classes having leap, it does no good unless he ditches the ball.

 

I have no comment on sprint. Either it could or couldn't drop the ball. I'm on the fence about it.

 

I still stand by the idea. It would make for some good "team" play.

 

leap, push, leap.....

 

but chucking a 15 or 30s debuff after extricate to stop chain pulling would solve sorc stacking, if some team managed to pull off extricate, pass, extricate, that would probably deserve it for amazing coordination and bad defense.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Adzzy

[Ortof]

Great, the OP wants to take away the only useful thing a Marauder can do in hutball. But he is happy for his Consular to constantly be CC'ing, and then KO'ing people off ledges.

 

Well thought out post? No.

 

It seems that you are not playing with a premade and getting beat. And if a team scores while the other chases for kills then yes it's no fun and the other team should win 6-0.

 

The issue is people learning to play. The issue is BW awarding to much valor and medals for solo play over team play.

 

End my rant.

 

So your solution is to stack abilities that in fact do avoid PVP to make PVP more balanced? I guess we will start seeing 8 Sorcs, etc etc per team here shortly if the grapple thing doesn't go in effect. I bet people will call it skill as well.

 

Look, I am not knocking the ability. Yes, it "can" be used skillfully from time to time. Stacking Sorcs to take advantage of the maps mechanics and scoring in under 10 seconds, not so skillfull IMHO.

[Jestunhi]

1) Make fire and acid immediately proc a 1/2 second root on you, no matter how you cross through it, then apply the snare. Whether you sprint, force leap, yank someone with rescue, or just walk into it, you hit an instant WALL and are rooted for one quarter to one half of a second. I know that Powertechs and Assassins would giggle with glee at all the harpoon instagibs they could score, but it would at least slow down the scoring.

Acid already has a snare, I'd not have an issue with them ading one to fire (or even a 1/2 second root preceeding the snare on both hazards)

 

2) Just triple the damage on the fire/acid.

I wouldn't have a major issue with this but tbh it's only specific classes / specs which don't die when grappled into fire, etc so Ikeep in mind the increased hazard damage would mean weaker characters would die much quicker too.

 

3) Double the size of the warzone, making teams travel twice as far. This would nullify sprint being able to cross 1/4 of the distance from mid to endzone in one cast. I still think the hazards need some form of buff in addition to this, but I would love to see the warzone size increased.

I'm not sure I agree with this one - mobility is already important in Huttball but this would make it next to impossible for someone to catch up with a speed-using assassin who gets to use his speed 2-3 times over the run due to the increased map size.

 

The assassins would still be just as far ahead after a single sprint and they would be more likely to be able to use another one to get even further ahead.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Jestunhi

[Amp_]

Great, the OP wants to take away the only useful thing a Marauder can do in hutball. But he is happy for his Consular to constantly be CC'ing, and then KO'ing people off ledges.

 

Well thought out post? No.

 

It seems that you are not playing with a premade and getting beat. And if a team scores while the other chases for kills then yes it's no fun and the other team should win 6-0.

 

The issue is people learning to play. The issue is BW awarding to much valor and medals for solo play over team play.

 

End my rant.

 

You didn't read it and completely missed the point the OP was trying to make.

[Twernt]

The "ahh another noob who just turned 50 needs to L2P" response indicates that you didn't even read my posts. I offered several ideas, i never said anything about nerfing any abilities, and I am FAR from a fresh 50. And as for the insenuation that I want my "OP Sorc" to sit back and profit... I don't even play a Sorc, I have one that I got to level 11 a month or two ago, in my stable of alts. I play several characters, but my main is valor rank 59, should be Battlemaster in a day or two, if I bother to log on. I have run HUNDREDS of warzones, if not over a thousand. I was in beta for months, and warzoned my butt off in that too. I posted tons of Beta feedback, which, the beta community would attest that a large amount of feedback was largely ignored. So, please, don't NOT read my post, then get on here and say "L2P you fresh 50 noob" and vomit on my thread.

 

I posted this thread here for people to discuss the pros and cons of making some adjustments to the map, either in the form of buffing the hazards, or in changing a couple of the possession rules. I WELCOME constructive criticism and feedback.

 

And as for the games ending 1-0, if the ball dropped on force leap, etc -- I don't think so, leapers can still leap, blast people off, then run 5 feet and get open for a pass, or sprint ahead, and rescue a teammate, then get open for a pass. You could still use ALL of those tools to advance the ball, just not WHILE holding the ball. The only class this would benefit would be snipers, really, and most people agree, they need a little help anyway. Other ranged classes could still be pushed off, or leapt to and knocked off, if they position poorly. Heck, if it did lower the scoring and we had some 3-2 slugfests -- aren't those the best kinds of games anyway? Where you actually win a grueling 15 minute match by one point?

[AngusFTW]

I don't really agree with this post at all..

 

Nerfing huttball obsticles so we cant use abilitys to bypass obstacles would make it worse for your "bottom 4"

Edited February 19, 2012 by AngusFTW

[Reveillere]

Mercs and snipers are godly to have in your huttball team, put them on the upper levels and demolish the opposing team in the middle to control the middle,

 

Operative stealther in the middle to grab the ball whenever it resets

 

Assassin/jugger as the ball handler

 

Sorc for pulls/heals/bubble/kb - basically as support for the ball handler

 

all classes but the marauder have great utility in this warzone imo (although i think the marauders make up for it with their crazy damage :] )

[Banz]

With the amount of CC that's currently being used in warzones, the hazards are fine as they are.

[fsushogun]

Mercs and snipers are godly, but if we cant catch up to the sith who just pull, sprint, etc and get ahead how are we doing damage.

We are doing damage to the wrong target. If u can just sprint through all the obstacles than that is just a bunch of sh#T. Huttball is what u get queued about 80 percent or more, and if u get a group of sith; assassins/sorc/juggernauts then the other team is pretty much screwed. SPRINT FOR THE WIN.......

[Rasstavad]

I don't really agree with this post at all..

 

Nerfing huttball obsticles so we cant use abilitys to bypass obstacles would make it worse for your "bottom 4"

 

I think his point is that obstacles are supposed to be obstacles... and not be bypassed as a matter of course by some... otherwise when rateds become a reality (lol) class balance will become an issue and top teams will only bring specific specs/ac's.

[Twernt]

The proposed: "Fumble the Ball" change wouldn't stop ANYONE from using their abilities in Huttball. You would still be able to sprint, force leap, and extricate to your heart's content....

 

Just not with the ball in your own hands.

 

--Juggernauts that want to complain about this, consider: you still force leap to the moron that stands on the ledge, then force push him off, and stand there, awaiting the pass for the score. Or, you leap up WITHOUT THE BALL and stun someone, walk 5 feet to an open space, and wait for the pass. Passing requires TEAMWORK.

-- Sorcerors that want to complain about this -- you can still rescue teammates and run the fire taking almost no damage ALL YOU WANT.... just NOT WITH THE BALL. You sprint through, extricate a second player, who then runs ahead for another pass, you heal your ball carrier, or stun, or knockback, or snare -- ball carrier passes to you -- you pass forward to the 2nd sprinter, etc. Still very useful, and requires PASSING and TEAMWORK. Wow, you're friggin' USEFUL! Even though you couldn't sprint through the fire while holding the ball, or extricate the ball carrier, you could extricate OTHER people, and you could sprint to get open all you want -- for the PASS, in a TEAM game.

--Powertechs who want to complain about not being able to storm with the ball... See Juggernauts, but add the ability to root people in the fire reliably, guard healers, and basically be a major pain in the ***, as well as a beefy *** ball carrier -- you storm enemies, get open for the PASS.

--Assassins -- nothing changes, except you can't sprint through 2 fire obstacles while taking no damage WITH THE BALL. You can sprint ahead, and get open for the PASS, or knockback the enemy defense, or CC, or just kill the **** out of people, or jump down and yank enemies down with you, or guard someone, etc, etc... You would just have to actually use your ability to run and get open, as opposed to just carrying the ball yourself while sprinting. If you want to sprint, you pass to a teammate, SPRINT AHEAD, he.. OMG - wait for it -- PASSES THE BALL RIGHT BACK!

--Marauders -- your one force leap is inconsequential anyway, compared to these other classes (you only get that one thing!), but it's only fair to mention that... you would drop the ball too if you force leaped with it in your hands.

 

Dumb people would still pay for standing on ledges, teams could still move relatively quickly to advance the ball, but you would actually have to somewhat observe the hazards if you had the ball, unless you PASS to bypass it.

 

How would this not be a good change? And how on earth would this ruin those classes' lives?

 

All this would do would be slow the game down a bit, and force more passing.

[Baalazar]

Totally agreed OP. On my sorc i can just bubble and sprint through the flames and i'm not even BM geared yet.

 

Hazards in Huttball need to be buffed at 50.

[Yeochins]

/golfclap You have found the first MMORPG in HISTORY with no PVP changes needed to either classes/specs or maps.

 

Wow really man, you skipped everything he said about dropping the ball would encourage team play, which it actually would and everything else and you think he wants it dumbed down? LOL

 

I take it your BM Sorc that grapples all day would be a bit hurt by this. It's ok though, you can always engage the other team rather than chain grapple.

 

Learn to play. There is already a whole lot of teamwork that goes on to use these skills. The problem isn't the game. The problem is YOU.

 

 

There are undoubtedly class issues when it comes to damage. But the utility of the classes are completely balanced. A learn to play issue.

 

I play all sorts of classes:

 

Shadow

Sorcerer

Guardian

Marauder

Sniper

Mercenary

Powertech

 

The issue is learning to use your class effectively. There is a reason fresh 50's fail. Because they never take the time to learn their classes abilities and utility. A sorcerer can pull. But a shadow can pull back. Dont want a guardian/Juggernaught to leap? Dont stand in front of him.

 

Dont want to get grapped into fire pits? Use LOS and knockback to keep them out of LOS. Force push, Knockback, etc. All these movement control abilities. What separates the fresh 50's from those who know how to play their class.... are those 50's who know how to use their movement abilities with other players.

 

 

The whole premise "it is fine in the lower 1-49 brackets" is completely false. There almost NOBODY knows how to use their class.

 

 

Again, learn to play then post. Everyone who isn't a fresh 50 can tell you're a fresh 50.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Yeochins

[Twernt]

This thread is not about class utility, or class damage, or class balance.

 

Also, I'm not sure why you keep trying to call me a fresh 50 noob, when I've played every class in the game except marauder, and my main has over 500 friggin Huttball matches, and I played three builds of the beta. I guess you didn't read my posts. I'm not complaining about ANY of the abilities in and of themselves, I'm not calling ANY class overpowered -- I'm saying the ball moves too fast, due to hazards not slowing 75% of the classes down.

 

It's about advancing the ball and using teamwork, and people circumventing the map hazards exceptionally fast, moving the ball EXTREMELY fast -- the fire isn't HOT any more, and the acid is less dangerous than a lukewarm Jacuzzi in Battlemaster, Champion, or even Centurion gear.

 

It would be nice to think of the ball as a 200 pound weight, that you can't jump, sprint, or dance the Lambada while carrying. What do you do? The other 7 people on the TEAM treat it like a sport, get open, move for passes, use those very same abilities to GET OPEN, control the field, and advance the ball. It's not like one person is saddled with the ball the entire game and would not be able to force leap ever. You would just pass the ball to a teammate, force leap to the idiot on the ledge, then he passes it back.

 

But, go ahead, completely ignore my point, and call me a fresh 50 noob again, if it makes you feel better. I really don't think anyone who reads my posts vs. yours will believe your asinine claim. I even said in my original post that this thread isn't about classes, it's about warzone tuning. I never complained about getting owned, or jumped to, or pulled into the fire, or knocked off, etc -- I spoke of ball movement and game length, and lack of actual combat.

 

Again, post suggestions, or reasons you think the suggestions won't work, that is welcome, but coming in here and spouting vitriol and/or insults on a thread that was started with the intent of gaining feedback doesn't make me look like a "noob" -- it only makes you look bad.

 

Again, please keep any feedback or suggestions coming. I'd be happy to hear some.

[rolotomasi]

Leap/friendly pull/Force Speed should make you drop the ball

 

STAY AWAY FROM THE HAZARDS, ROTWORMS!

 

they should prevent ball carrier to cast those skill just as stealth with the ball b4 they do anything with with the hazard.

[Twernt]

Yep, I agree, then people could still use ALL of their abilities, and use them to protect the carrier, or get into position for a pass FROM the carrier, instead of just forming 4-man movement groups, where passing or fighting the enemy isn't even really needed. Make the fire DEADLY, or make the ball drop when you get extricated/leap/sprint.

 

My last three matches of Huttball were over in 5 minutes or less every time. We just won one in 4 minutes and 20 seconds 6-0, because we had 7 of the 8 players with ways to bypass the fire. (sorc/assassins galore, sprinting and pulling, with guard of course).

 

I HATE four minute games, win or lose -- medal count sucks, commendations suck, and you hardly FIGHT the enemy. You spend more time listening to Baron Deathmark's idiotic voice and loading, than actually IN THE WARZONE. They have GOT to find a way to slow down the game at Battlemaster/Champion gear levels, because the fire sure doesn't slow anyone down.

[ComeAndSee]

They're fine as is.

[VoidJustice]

What we really need is just more Warzones.

[Stratoforce]

To be honest, if your huttball premade isn't 4 sorcerers/sages or 3 sorcerers/sages and a knight/juggernaut you are doing it wrong.

 

Those two classes completely ignore everything Huttball is. I enjoy chain capping 5 times in under 3 minutes and then farming my medals.

[Twernt]

What we really need is just more Warzones.

 

I couldn't agree more -- running Huttball 95% of the time sucks ***, period. It could be the best thing ever, but with no variety, it gets REALLY old.

 

I play my repub alt several times a week, just so I can see other warzones.

[Zarrot]

Very well said OP. I tend to agree with much of what you said. The hazards should be deadly even to 50's.

[glenbruton]

A bit of a buff to the hazards would probably be a good idea in the 50 bracket.

[Astarica]

When you Force Speed across a fire or acid pit you usually only take one tick of damage. Try it back at level 18 and you'll notice one tick of that stuff doesn't kill you either.

 

Let me put it this way. Suppose you and I start the fight at full health, and I knock you into the middle of an acid pit (supposedly a weak hazard), there's no way I'll lose that fight unless you used a CD that completely negated all damage like Undying Rage, and even in that case, having to use up your get out of jail card this early usually means you'll just lose the fight later. If you really think those traps are that weak, why not park your ranged DPS inside the acid pit?

[fsushogun]

When you Force Speed across a fire or acid pit you usually only take one tick of damage. Try it back at level 18 and you'll notice one tick of that stuff doesn't kill you either.

 

Let me put it this way. Suppose you and I start the fight at full health, and I knock you into the middle of an acid pit (supposedly a weak hazard), there's no way I'll lose that fight unless you used a CD that completely negated all damage like Undying Rage, and even in that case, having to use up your get out of jail card this early usually means you'll just lose the fight later. If you really think those traps are that weak, why not park your ranged DPS inside the acid pit?

 

if thats your idea of reasoning then your a f*cking idiot. how are u rationalizing using a cd to get out of an obstacle to why dont you just get your dps to sit in it.... you make completely no sense what so ever.

 

The point the op is trying to make is in huttball only, sprint/bubble pull combo classes have a major advantage on offense and defense. if you get knocked down of a platform or away and your not one of the huttball god classes it takes forever to get back to do something useful if you ever even get back. They have bubble which even helps negate the obstacle damage even more then classes and they can sprint, bubble hop through the whole map. Then get back and play defensive and get in position much faster due to the same abilities. I have a sorc that I play and I can basically score at will with no help for the most part.