Lukeal Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Please bear with me. The changes being applied to quitting a wz in 1.2 simply won't make much of a difference in participation in "losing" WZ. They have been tried in numerous other games and either lead to more abuse (in the case of rewarding staying) or less PvP even available because people still see quitting and re-queue with a 15 minute wait as more productive (because you can do other stuff) than "losing". The only way they can fix this with material penalties or rewards is to make losing a full match nearly as much as winning a full match. Which is silly and the road to "why bother". People will just start to harp on "lose faster so we can all requeue". Seen it happen. Numerous times. What I think would be some awesome deterrants are for someone who leaves a warzone early when their team is losing (not leaving before starting or leaving while winning) and YES for an "accidental, I pulled the plug on my internet disconnect": gets their current title replaced with "The Cowardly" with no way to change, remove, or not display it for at least 15 minutes of actual time passed playing the game (no logging off and having it be gone when you come back). Maybe longer. Maybe until they actually complete a WZ or do a certain amount of healing/dmg/kills or earn a certain number of commendations. also becomes visible on the world map and mini-map to all players as a toggle filter like trainers (you know "Show Cowards" filter). I know their engine can actually do this For the duration of the title applied, they are locked out of any instance/non-public areas besides WZs (no hiding where people can't get to you) For the duration of the title when not in a WZ, they are locked into free-for-all PvP mode. Yep, everyone can see them on the map and come kill them wherever they decide to hide with no hiding in instances (to include your ship). I think the only way to effectively change this behavior is to enable tools for the community to bring social pressure to bear on these people. Identify them and open them to peer retribution. I know people in my guild would organize hunter-killer parties just to PvP solely on cowards. That is a deterrent. And I would gladly take this penalty for the rare accidental disconnect if it meant I could hunt all the people that leave immediately when the other team scores the first goal in Huttball or takes the second cannon, or blows the first door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gluefoot Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I really like this idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ssfbistimg Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Please bear with me. The changes being applied to quitting a wz in 1.2 simply won't make much of a difference in participation in "losing" WZ. They have been tried in numerous other games and either lead to more abuse (in the case of rewarding staying) or less PvP even available because people still see quitting and re-queue with a 15 minute wait as more productive (because you can do other stuff) than "losing". The only way they can fix this with material penalties or rewards is to make losing a full match nearly as much as winning a full match. Which is silly and the road to "why bother". People will just start to harp on "lose faster so we can all requeue". Seen it happen. Numerous times. What I think would be some awesome deterrants are for someone who leaves a warzone early when their team is losing (not leaving before starting or leaving while winning) and YES for an "accidental, I pulled the plug on my internet disconnect": gets their current title replaced with "The Cowardly" with no way to change, remove, or not display it for at least 15 minutes of actual time passed playing the game (no logging off and having it be gone when you come back). Maybe longer. Maybe until they actually complete a WZ or do a certain amount of healing/dmg/kills or earn a certain number of commendations. also becomes visible on the world map and mini-map to all players as a toggle filter like trainers (you know "Show Cowards" filter). I know their engine can actually do this For the duration of the title applied, they are locked out of any instance/non-public areas besides WZs (no hiding where people can't get to you) For the duration of the title when not in a WZ, they are locked into free-for-all PvP mode. Yep, everyone can see them on the map and come kill them wherever they decide to hide with no hiding in instances (to include your ship). I think the only way to effectively change this behavior is to enable tools for the community to bring social pressure to bear on these people. Identify them and open them to peer retribution. I know people in my guild would organize hunter-killer parties just to PvP solely on cowards. That is a deterrent. And I would gladly take this penalty for the rare accidental disconnect if it meant I could hunt all the people that leave immediately when the other team scores the first goal in Huttball or takes the second cannon, or blows the first door. I'd actually quit my first warzone just to get that title. it be awesome. And I'd name my character Lion so with the Title id be known as The Cowardly Lion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakan Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I'm of the opinion that Bioware needs to implement better incentives to keep players playing in a WZ match (even when things go south) as opposed to implementing all of these penalties/deterrents. This feels more like a band-aid than an actual solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosene Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Who cares about a *********** title, valor decay is by far the best punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gryhmr Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 This guy can see the future bros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gryhmr Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 This guy can see the future bros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InferNoMercy Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Maybe it would help to higher rate a MVP-Vote with Valor/Commendations so that staying and working for a win, and not only hunting medals. This way working hard gets rewarded, but only if players start rating fair instead of directly quitting or just sort by dmg/heal an pick the upper one.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michel_NL Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 This guy can see the future bros Really need to double post this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finetop Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Maybe it would help to higher rate a MVP-Vote with Valor/Commendations so that staying and working for a win, and not only hunting medals. This way working hard gets rewarded, but only if players start rating fair instead of directly quitting or just sort by dmg/heal an pick the upper one.... Like buffing medals if your team actually wins. There are lots of easy fixes that don't involve teams kicking bad/poorly-geared teammates. Lets see if BW pick the right one... they picked the wrong button last patch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talizzar Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 When you start paying my sub than you can penalize me for handling real life issues and you can tell me how to play the game. This is a game. They way to keep people in the WZ is to give incentive to do so. Penalize the players and you will have a few that just sit around and shoot the ****. You can't force people to play. Would you rather have a chance at getting someone that wants to help win or people loitering around the WZ doing silly stuff for 15 mins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xxdragonragexx Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 When you start paying my sub than you can penalize me for handling real life issues and you can tell me how to play the game. This is a game. They way to keep people in the WZ is to give incentive to do so. Penalize the players and you will have a few that just sit around and shoot the ****. You can't force people to play. Would you rather have a chance at getting someone that wants to help win or people loitering around the WZ doing silly stuff for 15 mins? I don't have to. Bioware is going to do it for us and tell you either to play the way I want or quit the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradigamer Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 1. It's not fair to people who D/C through no fault of their own. 2. No one is going to care anyway. People watch their friends kill trade all day in Ilum, why should it bother them if someone leaves a losing warzone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrackenOne Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 You're right your premade should be able to kill noobs everytime, shame on them for not wanting to get farmed. ....... What we need is a better queue system (class/level based) and a much shorter afk auto boot when in WZs. All this other crap is just that crap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finetop Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) What we need is a better queue system (class/level based) and a much shorter afk auto boot when in WZs. They did this already and it sucks. The only way to implementation could be worse is if it boot people out of the WZ before the match even starts. Edited February 18, 2012 by finetop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulpp Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 People go for the greatest reward for the least effort. Always. So as a developer/designer, you structure your systems in a way that incentivizes to play "the way it's intended". The OP's suggestion is actually the opposite. Making your game less fun is a stupid & short sighted way to design unless your intent is solely to piss off your players. Nothing about the OPs suggestion is good and it will never happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maticlandarr Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Positive reinforcement to encourage people to complete warzones is the only effective route. I dont know why anyone, including bioware, would suggest otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natharon Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) Please bear with me. The changes being applied to quitting a wz in 1.2 simply won't make much of a difference in participation in "losing" WZ. They have been tried in numerous other games and either lead to more abuse (in the case of rewarding staying) or less PvP even available because people still see quitting and re-queue with a 15 minute wait as more productive (because you can do other stuff) than "losing". The only way they can fix this with material penalties or rewards is to make losing a full match nearly as much as winning a full match. Which is silly and the road to "why bother". People will just start to harp on "lose faster so we can all requeue". Seen it happen. Numerous times. What I think would be some awesome deterrants are for someone who leaves a warzone early when their team is losing (not leaving before starting or leaving while winning) and YES for an "accidental, I pulled the plug on my internet disconnect": gets their current title replaced with "The Cowardly" with no way to change, remove, or not display it for at least 15 minutes of actual time passed playing the game (no logging off and having it be gone when you come back). Maybe longer. Maybe until they actually complete a WZ or do a certain amount of healing/dmg/kills or earn a certain number of commendations. also becomes visible on the world map and mini-map to all players as a toggle filter like trainers (you know "Show Cowards" filter). I know their engine can actually do this For the duration of the title applied, they are locked out of any instance/non-public areas besides WZs (no hiding where people can't get to you) For the duration of the title when not in a WZ, they are locked into free-for-all PvP mode. Yep, everyone can see them on the map and come kill them wherever they decide to hide with no hiding in instances (to include your ship). I think the only way to effectively change this behavior is to enable tools for the community to bring social pressure to bear on these people. Identify them and open them to peer retribution. I know people in my guild would organize hunter-killer parties just to PvP solely on cowards. That is a deterrent. And I would gladly take this penalty for the rare accidental disconnect if it meant I could hunt all the people that leave immediately when the other team scores the first goal in Huttball or takes the second cannon, or blows the first door. Oh shame them into proper play! How well that would work, here on the internet, notorious for being full of people with no shame. A pvp server would laugh at this, people would do it on purpose just to run around with the title mocking it. I laughed, it was a decent joke. I'm sorry, but if I back load into an abortion in progress I am not going to stick around, I shouldn't be penalized for other people being penalized for quitting. Honestly if they give me a coward title, whatever lol, as long as those bad players who as a dps spec had >60k dps and more deaths than kills, and were basically dead weight the entire time, get the title of Baddie, Terrible, Should Delete His Toon, added to their name. Edited February 19, 2012 by Natharon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laoi Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Please bear with me. The changes being applied to quitting a wz in 1.2 simply won't make much of a difference in participation in "losing" WZ. They have been tried in numerous other games and either lead to more abuse (in the case of rewarding staying) or less PvP even available because people still see quitting and re-queue with a 15 minute wait as more productive (because you can do other stuff) than "losing". The only way they can fix this with material penalties or rewards is to make losing a full match nearly as much as winning a full match. Which is silly and the road to "why bother". People will just start to harp on "lose faster so we can all requeue". Seen it happen. Numerous times. What I think would be some awesome deterrants are for someone who leaves a warzone early when their team is losing (not leaving before starting or leaving while winning) and YES for an "accidental, I pulled the plug on my internet disconnect": gets their current title replaced with "The Cowardly" with no way to change, remove, or not display it for at least 15 minutes of actual time passed playing the game (no logging off and having it be gone when you come back). Maybe longer. Maybe until they actually complete a WZ or do a certain amount of healing/dmg/kills or earn a certain number of commendations. also becomes visible on the world map and mini-map to all players as a toggle filter like trainers (you know "Show Cowards" filter). I know their engine can actually do this For the duration of the title applied, they are locked out of any instance/non-public areas besides WZs (no hiding where people can't get to you) For the duration of the title when not in a WZ, they are locked into free-for-all PvP mode. Yep, everyone can see them on the map and come kill them wherever they decide to hide with no hiding in instances (to include your ship). I think the only way to effectively change this behavior is to enable tools for the community to bring social pressure to bear on these people. Identify them and open them to peer retribution. I know people in my guild would organize hunter-killer parties just to PvP solely on cowards. That is a deterrent. And I would gladly take this penalty for the rare accidental disconnect if it meant I could hunt all the people that leave immediately when the other team scores the first goal in Huttball or takes the second cannon, or blows the first door. OH NOEZ A TITLE THAT SAYS IM A COWARD?!? ZOMG NOES I WILL BE SO ASHAMED. rofl seriously who other than some die hard roleplayer would honestly give a fox.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nodq Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) Please bear with me. The changes being applied to quitting a wz in 1.2 simply won't make much of a difference in participation in "losing" WZ. They have been tried in numerous other games and either lead to more abuse (in the case of rewarding staying) or less PvP even available because people still see quitting and re-queue with a 15 minute wait as more productive (because you can do other stuff) than "losing". The only way they can fix this with material penalties or rewards is to make losing a full match nearly as much as winning a full match. Which is silly and the road to "why bother". People will just start to harp on "lose faster so we can all requeue". Seen it happen. Numerous times. What I think would be some awesome deterrants are for someone who leaves a warzone early when their team is losing (not leaving before starting or leaving while winning) and YES for an "accidental, I pulled the plug on my internet disconnect": gets their current title replaced with "The Cowardly" with no way to change, remove, or not display it for at least 15 minutes of actual time passed playing the game (no logging off and having it be gone when you come back). Maybe longer. Maybe until they actually complete a WZ or do a certain amount of healing/dmg/kills or earn a certain number of commendations. also becomes visible on the world map and mini-map to all players as a toggle filter like trainers (you know "Show Cowards" filter). I know their engine can actually do this For the duration of the title applied, they are locked out of any instance/non-public areas besides WZs (no hiding where people can't get to you) For the duration of the title when not in a WZ, they are locked into free-for-all PvP mode. Yep, everyone can see them on the map and come kill them wherever they decide to hide with no hiding in instances (to include your ship). I think the only way to effectively change this behavior is to enable tools for the community to bring social pressure to bear on these people. Identify them and open them to peer retribution. I know people in my guild would organize hunter-killer parties just to PvP solely on cowards. That is a deterrent. And I would gladly take this penalty for the rare accidental disconnect if it meant I could hunt all the people that leave immediately when the other team scores the first goal in Huttball or takes the second cannon, or blows the first door. If you get the same for losing a WZ as for winning one. Trust me, then 70% of the players will just join and do nothing and wait for the WZ to end. Thats because most kids are just playing for the f*cking rewards / items instead of for the fun. Edited February 19, 2012 by nodq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seriasx Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Hey how bout instead of dumb punishments BW fixes the Matchmaker so people stop leaving in the first place. Sorry, please continue with more ideas that solve nothing and make things worse then they already are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Please bear with me. The changes being applied to quitting a wz in 1.2 simply won't make much of a difference in participation in "losing" WZ. you have a list of all the wz changes coming in 1.2? what are they? can you post a link to your source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukeal Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 Incentives are already there for winning and losing. However, I apologize for not stating as an initial premise that this should be for PvP servers only. People are right, those on PvE servers won't care much really. So if you are a PvE server player, please move on Incentives don't work to make people enjoy losing. As stated, the only way to make losing "likable" would... um, make losing LIKABLE... so people would (and in many games to date where they implemented noticeable awards for losing) just "throw" a WZ they are losing to lose as fast as they can. PvP should be about awards for winning and penalties for losing. Everyone should not get a trophy. There are winners and losers. It is about competition. I don't even grok how you can say "losing should be FUN TOO!!!" what?? I don't and never will enjoy losing and I get even more angry when a game incentives losing and you start seeing things in Ops chat like "let em take all the points so we can lose quick, they are already ahead." I don't care if I get 10 times the number of rewards over time for losing faster, I hate it. It bugs me to no end. It removes the motivation to compete that I feel is the whole reason for PvP. Sometimes you get your face smashed in by a pre-made. If you can just bail, and bail, and bail until you end up the solo being carried with a someone's pre-made... why wouldn't you? People routinely and constantly leave at the very first sign of reversal. People who then get yanked into the "catastrophe" also immediately bail. You have a rotating 2-3 or even 4 people who take that 30 seconds or so to realize that before they also bail. I have been spending 1/2 of many warzones with the "if enough people don't join, we are cancelling this one" in the past week (or being one of the people pulled in). Not only is there not a penalty for this queue surfer behavior, there is surely an incentive as this behavior has become an epidemic. I have not been in a single WZ in weeks where the other side scored first (or took a gate or grabbed the 2nd cannon) and 2 or 3 people didn't immediately bail. And believe it or not, taking the anonimity out of this behavior is exactly what this is intended to do. Will some people get the title for kicks? sure. Will there be groups that organize solely to hunt down and kill people who get this title? I guarantee it. Because, as a group, PvPers tend to be very passionate and care a lot. And the opportunity to "headhunt" would be irresistable Will non-RP'ers care at that point.. yep... And this is not telling you how to play at all. It is simply saying if you quit or disconnect from a WZ that you are losing, you will be labelled Cowardly for all the game to see. The people you are playing with and affecting with your play will then be able to see that and do whatever they like about it. Yes an incredibly small number of people with real accidental disco will get slapped with this... but if you don't do that, people will just pull their net tap. See that ALL the time in some other games. And if you are of the school that there should never be a penalty in a game "because that isn't fun" please ignore this thread as our realities are so immensely far apart we have no reasonable basis for discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nyysjan Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 gets their current title replaced with "The Cowardly" with no way to change, remove, or not display it for at least 15 minutes of actual time passed playing the game (no logging off and having it be gone when you come back) I could actually see people go in WZ's, and leave them just so they could get the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adzzy Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 (edited) i much prefer someone's idea of a chicken icon I WANT MY CHICKEN ICON ps would this idea allow me to set my title permanently to the cowardly? These ideas of titles and icons might work on things like pve or especially rp servers, but they'd just hafve the designers become the butt of jokes on pvp servers. Lol, oh no, not cowardly, whatever will i do Edited February 19, 2012 by Adzzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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