Grometsc Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 What is this "step back" you mentioned? No addons? That is good. LFG? Destroys communities and makes TOR a lobby game like WoW is today. Please explain this step back. Biobot to the rescue! Hell just look at this...and this is from a game that came out in 2001 The entire combat system is too simplified in this game....its completely boring. Your not "into" the combat, your just doing a simple rotation to do DPS. No thought process, not reactionaries, few positionals (and even those are worthless unless you get this little proc that you can barely see on your screen). You may think LFG destorys communities...lack of people destory's a game. And thats what you have. You can claim a "lobby" game like WOW is, but guess what? WOW works, Tor will be REMOVING servesr or combining them shortly, the population is spread so thin in this game, which I'm certain is by design because the engine can not handle a group of people in the same area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthdoll Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 And yet most are stuck in the lobby (Imperial Fleet) most of the time they are playing ToR, at <15 FPS. With nothing to do except grind the odd WZ because finding a group is a joke..Oh and then not getting credit for their win. You were saying? What were you saying? WoW is purely a lobby game. Tor isnt. Difference is this: WoW click a button and wait, no communication whatsoever. TOR you have to advertise, get guild mates, friends, or random people and go do a FP. I have never had anyone leave a FP because it takes too long to find another group so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthdoll Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) Biobot to the rescue! Hell just look at this...and this is from a game that came out in 2001 The entire combat system is too simplified in this game....its completely boring. Your not "into" the combat, your just doing a simple rotation to do DPS. No thought process, not reactionaries, few positionals (and even those are worthless unless you get this little proc that you can barely see on your screen). You may think LFG destorys communities...lack of people destory's a game. And thats what you have. You can claim a "lobby" game like WOW is, but guess what? WOW works, Tor will be REMOVING servesr or combining them shortly, the population is spread so thin in this game, which I'm certain is by design because the engine can not handle a group of people in the same area. Yet do you have proof that the population is declining? Actual evidence and not anecdotal? INB4 linking some random website with charts, that is not proof of population decline. Biobot? Please, because I have a different opinion I am labeled a Biobot? Edited February 18, 2012 by darthdoll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grometsc Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Now you can stand around in ORG and pug for raids, pretty cool huh? That game has the most content of any MMO yet most people never have to leave the big cities. It's stupid now. You can if you want leave the big cities....Last time I checked the guards did not keep you from leaving Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthdoll Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) You can if you want leave the big cities....Last time I checked the guards did not keep you from leaving WoWbot to the rescue! See, I can use it too. Edited February 18, 2012 by darthdoll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotny Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Meh, if you don't want to stay then leave. MMOs evolve over time, this time next year SWTOR will be different. The game isn't going anywhere despite what the nay sayers thinks, they forget that this is a game based in Star Wars and that alone pretty much guarantees a certain amount of success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grometsc Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) WoWbot to the rescue! See, I can use it too. I actually dont play WOW....but I'm certain the last time I did the guards did not keep you stuck inside the city. Good try though Yet do you have proof that the population is declining? Actual evidence and not anecdotal? INB4 linking some random website with charts, that is not proof of population decline. Biobot? Please, because I have a different opinion I am labeled a Biobot? http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=310753 Others notice the same I cannot remember the last time my "heavy" server had over 500 players on it at the same time. Just wailt till next month, all of our 60-day time cards are done. We asked for updates, recommeded fixes...and the answer we get most of the time on the forums from the BioBots...Well just look above for that. Edited February 18, 2012 by Grometsc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Meh, if you don't want to stay then leave. MMOs evolve over time, this time next year SWTOR will be different. The game isn't going anywhere despite what the nay sayers thinks, they forget that this is a game based in Star Wars and that alone pretty much guarantees a certain amount of success. Of course the problem with that mentality is that if enough people leave to play other games in the meantime, BioWare can't pull in the subscription numbers they need to fund the developed to get those players back... This is why people say first impressions are very important for an MMO. Look at STO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoth Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 My point though was that without some show of good faith a LOT of people who leave.. well they aint coming back. Not just me , as I would check in now and again, but for a LOT of people, once done, done. And that would kill this game in infancy fairly well. Would like to see a prospectus on how many active subs they NEED to survive, but doubt that will ever come out. And the random numbers people toss out dont help - if a small base was enough Tabula Rasa would still be online Whats with this "LOT of people" stuff, did these "" People "" make you their spokesman? All you can say with certainty is what you will do, you can't predict what a "LOT" of people will do.... You talk about how you hate random numbers being toss out but your doing it yourself by implying you speak for a "LOT" of people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wifeaggro Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 BW really needs to start incrementally adding in patch 1.2 and soon, or they may find themselves a bit short on players - many people did like myself, and bought a two month card to play, and it will run out.. way before the last of March and early April. That being said, if theres no change by then, I am not about to put another two months cash while I wait - a wait that may or may not be broken by finding another game entirely. Others I am sure feel the same. An incremental output would at least show they HAVE stuff completed, it wont interfere with anyones playtime - heck every Tuesday patch eh? It would also lower the amount of *surprise* "patches to fix the patch" that happens to every game with a major update. Let's have a constructive discussion about this. In all honesty there is no way Bioware will be able to keep content coming in to this game at a reasonable rate. They made some Design decisions that are going to inhibit their devolpment cycles. one being VO. that is an extreme amount of time,two being cutscenes for all the NPC's that is man hour intensive. The game released thin on lvl 50 content,Very little social features and zero guild features and very very thin itemization. there are no Unique items in game the end progression is food stamp epics. Blue legendary is not itemized yet . Bioware will not be able to hold up to a update cycle like Trion does with Rift. The end game Bioware wants us to play is weekly , daily quests and Rerolls. Now if you dont like Rerolling your play time will consit of maybe 4 or 5 hours a week , a little more if you do dailies on belsavis and ilum. PVP in this game was not very well thought out. grinding to lvl 65 valor will be extremely repitive fast. They made a really great single player story. but a full fledged MMO this is not its more like a big Lobby game , or MOSPRPG. It has alot of potential personaly i think MMO's will never be actuall MMO's from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GavNash Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 (edited) What were you saying? WoW is purely a lobby game. Tor isnt. Difference is this: WoW click a button and wait, no communication whatsoever. TOR you have to advertise, get guild mates, friends, or random people and go do a FP. I have never had anyone leave a FP because it takes too long to find another group so to speak. Yeah I'm spending all my time in town between the endless battlezones, raids, world bosses, daily quests, hidden easter eggs, month long world wide holiday events, tens of thousands of points in achievements, day/night cycles. Random events, wide variety of different zones for the same level brackets, actual lore, zone quests, faction grinding (although this isn't too great you can still get rare mount rewards from it), Jousting tournaments, mount quests, race quests. Oh wait no I'm not. Even grinding an alt was less repetitive. Even during vanilla. Again, what is it you were saying? The only thing SWTOR has that is even close to being an "interesting" thing to do outside of sitting in fleet spamming LFG or waiting for your WZ to pop is the Datacron Tomb Raider thing in the Ziost. And that is a very very fun little easter egg, but why oh why didn't they go with about 100x more of this type of thing. Edited February 18, 2012 by GavNash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalDreamz Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Meh, if you don't want to stay then leave. MMOs evolve over time, this time next year SWTOR will be different. The game isn't going anywhere despite what the nay sayers thinks, they forget that this is a game based in Star Wars and that alone pretty much guarantees a certain amount of success. SWTOR is regressing not evolving. Star Wars is a bit of an over exaggerated IP. It's cool yea I get that but it's not an instant 5 million sub game strictly because of Star Wars. Fact is if the game stinks (Which it does) people will leave (Which is happening now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GavNash Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 SWTOR is regressing not evolving. Star Wars is a bit of an over exaggerated IP. It's cool yea I get that but it's not an instant 5 million sub game strictly because of Star Wars. Fact is if the game stinks (Which it does) people will leave (Which is happening now). Star Wars best works in a sandbox environment you can explore, turn it into a theme park ala SWG NGE and SWTOR and...Well you'd at least want to have a working engine and plenty of content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoth Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Of course the problem with that mentality is that if enough people leave to play other games in the meantime, BioWare can't pull in the subscription numbers they need to fund the developed to get those players back... This is why people say first impressions are very important for an MMO. Look at STO. I can see why the ""hardcore"" people would leave this game, but I expect the casual gamer (which probably makes up most of the subscription numbers) will stay for a long time, by the time they get to the point the "hardcore" crowed is, new content and changes should be in place to keep the game interesting.... If you only play 2-3 hrs a day say 4-5 days a week then this game will last you a very long time... Now if your playing 10-14 hrs a day 7 days a week then yeah your going to get bored pretty quick as there is not enough content to keep those type of players entertained for long... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiam Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 They need to do something because last night during prime time all American servers were standard or low, not one was high. It's been this way every time I check during prime time the past few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthdoll Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I actually dont play WOW....but I'm certain the last time I did the guards did not keep you stuck inside the city. Good try though http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=310753 Others notice the same I cannot remember the last time my "heavy" server had over 500 players on it at the same time. Just wailt till next month, all of our 60-day time cards are done. We asked for updates, recommeded fixes...and the answer we get most of the time on the forums from the BioBots...Well just look above for that. My server has usually 200 during peak times in IF. The Crucible Pits, so... Nice try? That is exactly what you are doing here. You are labeling me because I disagree and prove your evidence is false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemmar Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I dont see what the rush is. I still got plenty of game to play and i havent even managed to gear my lvl 50 into a single piece of Tier 3 or battlemaster. I dont know how these people do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excid Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 Storylines are inventive but it's a stretch to call them amazing. LS/DS, Spaceships, Space Combat, Social Points are all nothing but gimmicks and add no new mechanics whatsoever. EQ2 was the first to have complete voice acting. The Legacy System is nothing but Alternative Advancement, which even EQ1 had. The storyline is what makes this game good. I was actually sad when I hit 50 because I wanted more story. If you are a person who spam space bar and doesn't read for fun, then you might not enjoy it as much. The rest aren't gimmicks. I love to chill on my ship and craft because the ship doesn't take a ton of frames allowing me to play amalur at the same time. Plus its pretty cool idea. Legacy is only a gimmick till March. I dislike social points but others like it. LS/DS doesnt have enough effect atm either. Regardless, they are new ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerrusPA Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 If you only play 2-3 hrs a day say 4-5 days a week then this game will last you a very long time... Actually, no. It takes about 5 days (=120 hours) /played to get to 50. Taking your numbers, that'd be around only two weeks to reach max level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I can see why the ""hardcore"" people would leave this game, but I expect the casual gamer (which probably makes up most of the subscription numbers) will stay for a long time, by the time they get to the point the "hardcore" crowed is, new content and changes should be in place to keep the game interesting.... If you only play 2-3 hrs a day say 4-5 days a week then this game will last you a very long time... Now if your playing 10-14 hrs a day 7 days a week then yeah your going to get bored pretty quick as there is not enough content to keep those type of players entertained for long... You're right and you're wrong. Where you're right is that there's a group of people who simply won't be satisfied by TOR. Where you're wrong is insisting that it's a division between hardcore and casual. I don't subscribe to that at all. I'm casual gamer who has time to play. I haven't spent a moment's time in PvP or Warzones. Had the game had "fluff" features like ship customization, mini-games, deeper and more involved exploration, I'd still be a paying subscriber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monoth Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 In all honesty there is no way Bioware will be able to keep content coming in to this game at a reasonable rate. They made some Design decisions that are going to inhibit their devolpment cycles. one being VO. that is an extreme amount of time,two being cutscenes for all the NPC's that is man hour intensive. . Please enlighten me on your facts about how long it takes to do VO's, how did you come up with this "Extreme" amount of time? Do you work for Bioware or have worked with companies that do VO's for games? Seems to me that Bioware took around the same amount of time to develop this game as Blizzard did with WoW and many other MMO's yet they had no VO's or very limited ones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs_Murder Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 When they say "March", they better mean March 1st. I'm at the end of my rope, and I am the GM of one of two successful "endgame" guilds on my server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerrusPA Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 The rest aren't gimmicks. "In marketing language, a gimmick is a unique or quirky special feature that makes something "stand out" from its contemporaries. However, the special feature is typically thought to be of little relevance or use. Thus, a gimmick is a special feature for the sake of having a special feature." Yes. They are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GavNash Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 The storyline is what makes this game good. I was actually sad when I hit 50 because I wanted more story. If you are a person who spam space bar and doesn't read for fun, then you might not enjoy it as much. The rest aren't gimmicks. I love to chill on my ship and craft because the ship doesn't take a ton of frames allowing me to play amalur at the same time. Plus its pretty cool idea. Legacy is only a gimmick till March. I dislike social points but others like it. LS/DS doesnt have enough effect atm either. Regardless, they are new ideas. Yeah they are good ideas, but poorly implemented, for instance, the light and darkside stores. BW really needs to learn how to properly gear and reward an endgame MMO character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiam Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 I can see why the ""hardcore"" people would leave this game, but I expect the casual gamer (which probably makes up most of the subscription numbers) will stay for a long time, by the time they get to the point the "hardcore" crowed is, new content and changes should be in place to keep the game interesting.... If you only play 2-3 hrs a day say 4-5 days a week then this game will last you a very long time... Now if your playing 10-14 hrs a day 7 days a week then yeah your going to get bored pretty quick as there is not enough content to keep those type of players entertained for long... LOTR online had only casuals that stayed too, look now, it's free to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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