Kicking Someone Out. . .

[FourTwent]

In this week's QA post the Devs talked about a new feature that would allow players in a Warzone the ability to vote and kick someone out(which will make it so they are not able to queue for any warzone again for X minutes).

 

They said this will be implemented to handle the AFKers, but I have a feeling this will be abused.

 

Dont get me wrong, I like the idea of the community policing themselves. . .I just feel this will start happening to players even before the game really starts when people. . .

 

a - See someone in all green gear

b - See a lowbie in group(like lvl 10-20ish)

 

I assume it will need all 7 other people in the group to vote yes, in order to actually kick them out, which I understand can be hard to get that many people to agree. I just think it's a lazy way to solve the issue of people going AFK in a warzone.

 

To be fair, I never played WoW, and the other MMO's I've played did not allow this, even though it was a requested feature time and time again. I've just always read about how systems like this can be abused. The argument has always been, for every 1 person that was legitly(is legitly a word? lol) kicked for AFKing, 5-10 more will be kicked from people abusing the system.

[Xiaaa]

Actualy people click yes, just to get the popup out of the screen, without knowing what is for.

So yeah, someone doesnt like your name vote kick? People click yes instalntly without thinking. Someone doesnt like your gear, vote kick and so on... welcome to the kick fest.

[iceperson]

clearly you guys have super mad secret reading skills to have read between the lines and now have a complete understanding of how the afk kick feature will be implemented without any text at all even hinting at it. /bow Edited February 18, 2012 by iceperson

[DarthVarrak]

This will be useful for known botters or afkers, certainly. But did anybody see what their solution to people leaving WZs was?

 

"In Game Update 1.2 we will be making changes to the Warzone rewards system, which will de-incentivize this type of behavior. This will include the removal of the interim bag/quest system, the introduction of the direct purchase of gear from Warzone and Ranked Warzone commendations, 14 new objective-based medals and participation scaling the rewards."

 

This may stop some of the leavers, certainly, but it's far too little of a solution for far too big of a problem. I am hoping BW takes a more decisive stance on this. Don't get me wrong, I am all for new medals and getting rid of the stupid "Win 3 Warzones" quest.

[FourTwent]

clearly you guys have super mad secret reading skills to have read between the lines and now have a complete understanding of how the afk kick feature will be implemented without any text at all even hinting at it. /bow

 

Ill agree with you to a point. We dont know 'how' this feature will be triggered

 

They could go a sophisticated route and let this feature only activate and request for a yes/no vote when anyone stands still for X amount of seconds. But I doubt it, that just sounds like too many 'checks' on each and every person in all warzones.

 

I guess it's just me being pessimistic and thinking they will go the lazy route and give the ability to start voting a specific person only to the leader of the Ops(speaking of, does anyone know what triggers 1 person to be the leader over another? valor rank? games played/won?)

 

Personally I'd just rather get the debate out there and discussed in time before something drastic gets added to the game.

Edited February 18, 2012 by FourTwent

[Gigo]

This will be useful for known botters or afkers, certainly. But did anybody see what their solution to people leaving WZs was?

 

"In Game Update 1.2 we will be making changes to the Warzone rewards system, which will de-incentivize this type of behavior. This will include the removal of the interim bag/quest system, the introduction of the direct purchase of gear from Warzone and Ranked Warzone commendations, 14 new objective-based medals and participation scaling the rewards."

 

This may stop some of the leavers, certainly, but it's far too little of a solution for far too big of a problem. I am hoping BW takes a more decisive stance on this. Don't get me wrong, I am all for new medals and getting rid of the stupid "Win 3 Warzones" quest.

 

I assumed it was the part where they removed the bag/quest system and made you buy gear with currency you get from playing the WZ, instead of making wins the only way to get paid they are making playing the best way to get paid.

[Spymaster]

I don't know.... it's an interesting problem.

 

On the one hand AFKers can really ruin a WZ, and are getting rewards they don't earn. They need to be dealth with.

 

On the other hand, this will likely be abused.

 

I guess I'm on the the side that says... if everyone else in the group votes to kick you, you should get kicked, for whatever reason. Sorry, they all agreed.

 

It's just sad people might use this to kick out players based on silly things like gear, but when ranked Warzones start up it'll probably be less of an issue anyway.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Spymaster

[iceperson]

Ill agree with you to a point. We dont know 'how' this feature will be triggered

 

They could go a sophisticated route and let this feature only activate and request for a yes/no vote when anyone stands still for X amount of seconds. But I doubt it, that just sounds like too many 'checks' on each and every person in all warzones.

 

I guess it's just me being pessimistic and thinking they will go the lazy route and give the ability to start voting a specific person only to the leader of the Ops(speaking of, does anyone know what triggers 1 person to be the leader over another? valor rank? games played/won?)

 

Personally I'd just rather get the debate out there and discussed in time before something drastic gets added to the game.

 

hmm, lemme see... they could 1) check to see if someone is in combat (or warn them they have 30 seconds to get into combat), or 2) ask the user to press a randomized series of 3-4 keys within the next 30 seconds (kind of like a captcha but less annoying.) either of which will cancel the kick. how about a little less chicken little and a little more critical thinking...

Edited February 18, 2012 by iceperson

[belialle]

I sincerely hope that BW isn't just taking suggestions directly from the forums and adding them without giving serious consideration for perverse incentives that might follow from them. The people posting on the forums are not game designers, and although they may have good intentions, they aren't necessarily qualified to say what is good for the game.

 

Vote Kick? Premades will grief people they don't like. High levels/High gear levels will vote to remove lowbies.

 

Objective based medals? People will hog objectives and not help with CC so that the team can actually achieve objectives. Also, certain classes will inherently have a strong advantage for completing certain objectives.

 

These issues might not be as much of an issue on closed servers, but if (God forbid), they do add a true cross-server queue.....I expect to see this type of thing becoming a bigger problem.

 

I'll adopt a wait-and-see attitude, but I'm leery of these proposed changes.

 

 

EDIT:

 

 

Actualy people click yes, just to get the popup out of the screen, without knowing what is for.

 

This is absolutely true. I remember in another game, I tried to inspect someone who landed in our party because I wanted to know what a particular piece of gear was....but I mistakenly hit the "Vote to Kick" button. Guess what happened? Everyone voted to kick the poor dude. He was gone before I could even type "wait - misclick".

Edited February 18, 2012 by belialle

[Mavkiel]

So.. voting to kick someone based on crappy gear is wrong? I hate to say it but if I see a person using mostly green gear in a warzone I'd vote them out in an instant.

 

I dont care how good they think they are, they will just get pounded into the ground by the first idiot spamming tracer missile or grav round.

 

Speaking with some experience here, played as a 50 jugg and 50 op(Both of which are around rank 70, omg I pvp to much). When I see a person with 10k hp entering a warzone, I know its a wasted slot.

[belialle]

So.. voting to kick someone based on crappy gear is wrong? I hate to say it but if I see a person using mostly green gear in a warzone I'd vote them out in an instant.

 

Yeah, it's wrong. We may not like having them on our team, but they really do have every right to be there.

[Krondorf]

I seriously dont think it will come down to kicking peeps with low gear.

There really would be no time for it.

 

The ones that will be kicked, usually someone will mention that person is an afker, then the majority can witness it for themselves to vote, or a person already knows that s/he is a famous afker.

 

If s/he isnt an afker, they can easily respond to defend themselves.

 

This system would be good for fouled mouth players as well. Those that gets into the skin of the team, where all they do is talk and not play.

[FourTwent]

hmm, lemme see... they could 1) check to see if someone is in combat (or warn them they have 30 seconds to get into combat), or 2) ask the user to press a randomized series of 3-4 keys within the next 30 seconds (kind of like a captcha but less annoying.) either of which will cancel the kick. how about a little less chicken little and a little more critical thinking...

 

How about a little more logical thinking, and a little less silly assumptions.

 

In my post I said they could have a system that would run checks on each and every person. . .I just /feel/ that a system like that would cause a tremendous amount of lag for the players.

 

I know it doesn't exactly correlate to Ilum, but there's obviously some issues with how much data the servers are having to calculate and how much they can actually calculate before getting horrendous FPS issues.

 

I'm not saying the same thing will happen, just a logical point I wanted to bring up. . .you know, thinking about it from all angles. . .instead of thinking everything is magic and the devs can just twitch their noses in order to magically write code that works perfectly. Not to bash the devs or anything, its just crazy more complicated than some would like to think.

Edited February 18, 2012 by FourTwent

[iceperson]

How about a little more logical thinking, and a little less silly assumptions.

 

In my post I said they could have a system that would run checks on each and every person. . .I just /feel/ that a system like that would cause a tremendous amount of lag for the players.

 

I know it doesn't exactly correlate to Ilum, but there's obviously some issues with how much data the servers are having to calculate and how much they can actually calculate before getting horrendous FPS issues.

 

I'm not saying the same thing will happen, just a logical point I wanted to bring up. . .you know, thinking about it from all angles. . .instead of thinking everything is magic and the devs can just twitch their noses in order to magically write code that works perfectly. Not to bash the devs or anything, its just crazy more complicated than some would like to think.

 

there's already a system in place that checks to see if someone is in combat. sorry, just because you're not capable of thinking of ANY system that will work doesn't man the devs are all idiots. amazes me how someone who admittedly knows absolutely nothing about something can complain about it as if they do. personally i save my complaining for when i have a reason, i'm funny like that...

[FourTwent]

So.. voting to kick someone based on crappy gear is wrong? I hate to say it but if I see a person using mostly green gear in a warzone I'd vote them out in an instant.

 

I dont care how good they think they are, they will just get pounded into the ground by the first idiot spamming tracer missile or grav round.

 

Speaking with some experience here, played as a 50 jugg and 50 op(Both of which are around rank 70, omg I pvp to much). When I see a person with 10k hp entering a warzone, I know its a wasted slot.

 

It really is wrong. If you wanted to secure your team that much you should be rolling with premades. Yes, that leaves 4 slots open, but there's no reason why Bioware wont start allowing full 8 man premades, especially when we get team rankings. So while it may effect you for a little bit, that excuse is kind of invalid.

 

They have as much of a right to be in there as you do, no matter of gear, valor rank, anything. If you dont like them that much, you can leave and let the system replace you. But forcing someone out of a warzone when they legitimately did nothing wrong is just wrong. They paid to play the game just like you did. Yes, they didn't optimize their gear, but that doesn't mean they're a waste of space.

 

Give me one competent person that can dot opponents and call out incomings over the uber valor rank 70 in full BM that thinks he can take on 1v1, 1v2, 1v3 and refuses to call incomings.

[FourTwent]

there's already a system in place that checks to see if someone is in combat. sorry, just because you're not capable of thinking of ANY system that will work doesn't man the devs are all idiots. amazes me how someone who admittedly knows absolutely nothing about something can complain about it as if they do. personally i save my complaining for when i have a reason, i'm funny like that...

 

Who cares if a person is in combat or not? I can go into combat against someone AFKing/Botting.

 

Just because you're not capable understanding how to write code, doesn't mean the devs can just magically make a perfect system.

 

I never called the devs idiots anyway. Writing code for a game this massive is hard, thinking anything otherwise is idiotic.

 

Is my post complaining? Do you think a legit debate is arguing or complaining? I'm just bringing up points and discussing the benefits and consequences. Who knows, maybe the system will be uber magical and everything works out perfect.

 

I'm just curious to see how this will be implemented.

[Cstain]

So glad the mod closed out my thread of this topic that was made prior to this one to be brought to this flame fest....

[iceperson]

Who cares if a person is in combat or not? I can go into combat against someone AFKing/Botting.

 

Just because you're not capable understanding how to write code, doesn't mean the devs can just magically make a perfect system.

 

I never called the devs idiots anyway. Writing code for a game this massive is hard, thinking anything otherwise is idiotic.

 

Is my post complaining? Do you think a legit debate is arguing or complaining? I'm just bringing up points and discussing the benefits and consequences. Who knows, maybe the system will be uber magical and everything works out perfect.

 

I'm just curious to see how this will be implemented.

 

there's nothing to debate at this point. look around, most of the people here have it all figured out and know exactly how it's going to work and be exploited even without having any details on how it will work. oh, and btw i wrote code (C, C++, C#) for 12 years. just because you had an intro to vb class in juco doesn't mean you know what you're talking about, if you knew ANYTHING at all about coding you'd know you never make assumptions when it comes to what other people are working on...

[iceperson]

So glad the mod closed out my thread of this topic that was made prior to this one to be brought to this flame fest....

 

Kicking Someone Out. . . | Today , 10:19 PM

 

VoteKick coming 1.2 | Today , 10:38 PM

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=310538

 

 

Your clock works different than mine does...

 

both threads are nothing more than unfounded speculation from people who want to pre-complain about a feature they know nothing about though.

[Mavkiel]

It really is wrong. If you wanted to secure your team that much you should be rolling with premades. Yes, that leaves 4 slots open, but there's no reason why Bioware wont start allowing full 8 man premades, especially when we get team rankings. So while it may effect you for a little bit, that excuse is kind of invalid.

 

They have as much of a right to be in there as you do, no matter of gear, valor rank, anything. If you dont like them that much, you can leave and let the system replace you. But forcing someone out of a warzone when they legitimately did nothing wrong is just wrong. They paid to play the game just like you did. Yes, they didn't optimize their gear, but that doesn't mean they're a waste of space.

 

Give me one competent person that can dot opponents and call out incomings over the uber valor rank 70 in full BM that thinks he can take on 1v1, 1v2, 1v3 and refuses to call incomings.

 

It certainly does mean they are a waste of space. If I drop a sorc in 4 hits when they have bubble up they are helping no-one but the other team. What they did wrong was not gear up to a respectable degree before joining the warzone.

 

It'd be like that same guy expecting to go on a hard mode eternity vault raid with green gear. They'd laugh his *** out.

[deltaminus]

Yeah, it's wrong. We may not like having them on our team, but they really do have every right to be there.

 

No it isn't. Would you bring someone in level 40 items to a hardmode? Nope. Wearing trash gear to PvP is no different then if you brought trash gear to a hardmode, you're not going to do any damage or healing and you're useless. You simply lack the stats.

 

Why should the entire team suffer because someone didn't want to even try to carry their own weight?

Edited February 18, 2012 by deltaminus

[maradigamer]

I better get all my alts into the level 30s at least so I don't get kicked for being too low level. Oh, and they're closing threads on this topic for some strange reason. So this will probably get closed, too.

[iceperson]

No it isn't. Would you bring someone in level 40 items to a hardmode? Nope. Wearing trash gear to PvP is no different then if you brought trash gear to a hardmode, you're not going to do any damage or healing and you're useless. You simply lack the stats.

 

Why should the entire team suffer because someone didn't want to even try to carry their own weight?

 

if you don't want a random in your group do rated bgs and don't use the random wz finder.

[FourTwent]

No it isn't. Would you bring someone in level 40 items to a hardmode? Nope. Wearing trash gear to PvP is no different then if you brought trash gear to a hardmode, you're not going to do any damage or healing and you're useless. You simply lack the stats.

 

Why should the entire team suffer because someone didn't want to even try to carry their own weight?

 

I understand your point of view. I wouldn't expect anyone to do that.

 

The only thing I can really say though is due to the bolster mechanic, the game makes it feel that anyone can join a warzone at anytime. If it were done on a tiered ranking system(like lvls 10-20, 21-30, etc) then maybe more people would focus on gear. . .or maybe if warzones didn't feel like a free source of XP. . .then maybe it would prevent those from even wanting to join(but is that a good thing? i know from an xp perspective I enjoy frequent warzone pops).

 

From my personal experience though, it just takes way too long to grind out purples when you're leveling. I can sit here and gather purple mats to craft purple mods for an hour or two(in the really early levels) to a day or two(for the later levels), only to have them out-leveled in a few hours(early levels) to a few days(later levels).

 

And granted, the bolster system is nice, sitting in a lowbie warzone with 13k hp with a light armor dps class is very satisfying. But the rate that you level in this game is just silly fast and turns those purple mods into the stats i can get on blues in a level or two. Which again, shows how active the bolster system is, bringing me down to 11k.

 

In the end, I'm thinking rated warzones will solve a lot of this mixed matching. That's really what most of these issues are from, I think. Serious players dont wanna be mixed with casual players. . .and I'm sure it goes both ways, casuals dont like getting rolled.

[Toonces]

We're all jumping the gun, allow them to actually outline how the system works before we all start wildly speculating.

 

That being said, I'm not sure I have faith in Bioware here, as this is going to have to be a rather complex system in order to not allow it to be exploited in some way, I'm just not going to go off about it until I have some idea how it's going to work.