RE: Some problems with SWTOR that may kill the game.

[CaedLucin]

Yes it's a wall-of-text, but please bear with me BioWare and whoever's reading it. My english ain't terrific and it's just my honest and sincere opinion. Many things may be repeated issues already stated by other players but I would like to state my point of view about them. I hope you guys can read this with an open mind.

 

As much as I love BioWare games, the Star Wars franchise and MMORPGs in general, there are a few major problems with SWTOR right now that basically and instantly kills the hype of the game in terms of content, exploration and the social aspect of the game. And I'm sure you realized, many are leaving the game just like how they bailed out on WarHammer Online.

 

1. TOO MANY THINGS can be done on the Fleet alone.

Yes you heard me right, and it's killing the exploration aspect of the game. If the current state is still going to be the case for future expansions, you can be sure that no matter how many gazillion planets maybe created in the future expansions, not a single one would be as populated like the Fleet. Therefore it would becoming pointless and boring due to the fact that the only thing I see which are "actually alive", are the fidgeting NPCs. What's the point of creating so many worlds when the content you do is ONLY ENCOURAGES people to get over and done with the respective planet's quests, without even utilize it for other usages/socializing purposes.

 

BioWare, you need to stop following the current standard MMO formulas and stop making instanced battleground your priority in terms of PVP. Whoever that started this should be given props to, but whoever that followed it religiously without control afterwards should be shotgunned. j.k.

 

What I meant was, people need to BE ENCOURAGED to going around planets for activities, camping for kills (PVP/PVE), farming stuffs, exploration, Role-playing, etc. You need to give them a purpose and proper incentives doing so by allowing some things to go sandboxy in order for civilization to thrive. That's what makes Star Wars... well... Star Warsy. It's the community, NOT THE instanced world, NOT THE "make your life easy" by placing all activities in one area thing, nor the somewhat linear storyline (Though it was both good and a great edition to help ease the tormenting questing period many other MMOs have) that is SUPPOSED to seemed to make the game look like the player have the capability to change the world for the better or worse.

 

You have to make people actually ENJOY going to planets to do all sorts of activities(PVP/PVE/RP/non-combat lame stuffs/mindless but enjoyable stuffs), Enjoying the beautiful scenery whilst questing(or whatever stated above) or even chill out for the heck of it.

 

 

2. Space is Dead

I'm sure you heard about this MANY TIMES and what is the root causes. So I'm not gonna elaborate much on it except that people are getting sick of space missions, I did a lot of it, but it became a painful grind and I drag doing it. (Well I actually stopped doing it altogether)

 

 

3. Too much travelling cinematics/load times.

I would hate the WarHammer formula of having to see the load screens/cinematic when travelling from one area to the next, or worse, some elevator work by loading the next level as well. This CERTAINLY BREAKS THE IMMERSION. Take some cue off WoW or even better FFXI, they have better, if not, REALLY GREAT travelling experiences for players (at least for me). I actually felt a true sense of exploration when I played FFXI. Truly enjoyed that part of the experience and going from town to town as ACTUALLY FUN because of it.

 

 

4. Customization options for ALL things possible.

Whether it's cosmetic purposes for characters, companions, Ship (You got a hell lot of work to improve here), character creation, Speeder upgrades (Not just same model of different color or speed upgrades, I meant literally able to modify the different parts of a speeder), etc etc, you need to realize people WANTS and need to be different. It would help in many ways, not only to look cool and unique, but may help out in the role-playing aspect of the game many fold.

 

What you really need is an "Appearance/Wardrobe Tab" that mimic the current character tab, with a difference, whatever gears placed in there would only change the cosmetic appearances of a character and not it's stats. That should be the same for companions (the current customization for companions should be made to only change their face/racial appearance) and ship customization. See the advantage? It not only allows full up social customization for gamers to have fun with, it also improves Role-playability.

 

Let's say I am a level 50, but I want to role-play a Luke Skywalker type of hero, He is REAL STRONG (because he is fully geared), but he "APPEARED" to wear gears that made him look like a farm boy of sorts. Thus he can APPEAR TO LOOK WEAK, but is actually a really strong level 50 character.

 

Oh and last but not least, please allow us to HIDE individual companion's headgear/handgears as we like. There should be a "Checkbox" of sorts on each companion's headgear/handgear gear slot to show/hide or show that specific equipment.

 

5. No grind on quest? But what about the rest?

Yeah yeah, the storyline and stuffs that lets us the players choose how and what we want to become is all great and dandy. And it does minimizes the grindy feel to questing compared to many other MMOs. But what about the PVP and getting geared aspect?

 

Well I'm not saying grinding is bad and all, it does makes one feel AWESOME that we're actually working hard to achieve being the greatest badazz and all. But to be honest, though the grinding in this game is somewhat torturous (which is great and supposed to be like that), but at the same time it's ALL TOO EASY for EVERYONE to achieve.

 

To achieve something great, it's not just the grinding element that makes it all worthwhile, there is also the element of surprise and mystery which will improve the whole experience and make achievements that much more amazing! Like say when you finally attained a power or crafted a gear, or finally got a gear that LOOKED/FEELS DIFFERENT from everybody else.

 

Everything in this game is just too achievable and all too expectable, all you need is to have the exact recipe leaked out. Things has to be made mysterious and random to get players to want to find out more and keep coming back for it. It has to have that meaning to why you're doing it? For what meaningful purpose? Be it to obtain something only a rare few can ever have or just another means to an end. It shouldn't be achievable just through just pure grinding alone. Mystery and randomness are the two other essential ingredients here. Nothing's fun when the cat's already out of the bag, don't you agree?

 

 

6. Dailies, Weeklies, HM, NM

Firstly, one of the thing that really kills a game is when there are not enough contents and the developers tries to come up with these game modes to stall the players, preventing them from advancing too fast into the game and completing all it has to offer at that point in time.

 

This is a problem with many PVP/PVE centric only MMOs. I mean, I love challenges, I REALLY love the competitiveness and all, but if this is something that I have to do over and over, I would most likely to puke on the storyline, dungeons, PVP sooner or later from over-dosage.

 

Secondly, players SHOULD NOT be forced to do tasks like daily/weekly/etc in order to advance. I feel that advancement should be something that can be achieved through multiple ways which like I stated earlier on, in mysterious ways possible. And not some sort of linear formulated way (dailies, weeklies, raids, PVP), making them the only solution to becoming more powerful. Try to think creative, and not follow the footsteps of your predecessors. The greatness for those formulas, came, conquered, but is now OUTDATED and people are getting sick of it (That is why they've quit most other MMOs to join SWTOR, HOPING to find a new light).

 

 

7. Social Interactions/Interfaces improvements

Why make an MMO when the available tools does not ENCOURAGES communication/socialization between players? I'm sure you're already improving on this aspect for the upcoming patches and all, but I just have to state it to put the idea across. And PLEASE, DO take the advice of Role-players, because they have one of the best... if not the most excellent advice in this area of expertise. They know what is needed to make social/communication the best it can be. Trust them on that!

 

An example would be the link below:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=210223

 

Well I could go on further with what the problems are, but I'll let them RPers do the talking.

 

 

8. Everyone is JUST TOO INDEPENDENT

Almost EVERYTHING HERE can be done independently, whether it's crafting, PVPing, PVE questing, etc. Someone on the forums made a point not too long ago about SWG being inter-dependent. I personally have not played SWG at all, but I really liked the idea of everyone depending on someone else IN ORDER TO advance through the game.

 

Having it this way, would REALLY ENCOURAGE socialization, having to hook people up to do stuffs either for others or yourself. Yes this game aims to make people feel REALLY POWERFUL (Like real, since I have to pound many NPC 15 minutes with my lightsaber and a full group), independent and Heroic, but that should ONLY be in the case of combat. Everything else should be team effort with other players.

 

Let's take crafting for example, you DID NOT FIXED the problem by saying people who doesn't have Cybernatics have to depend on people who do, for custom-built speeders. That's not being inter-dependent, that's being dependent on someone else just because you do not have ALL 3 complimenting crew skill set to get you what you want, and it can be easily fix by having a completely different skill sets.

 

Ultimately, my main point is to make everyone SOCIALIZE by being dependent on others for their needs.

 

 

To close this, I would say there are a truckload of work to be improved on (IMO), but too little time. Please take heed and fast before another game picks up your remaining subbing players BioWare, I really do not wish to see SWTOR fall badly, especially not after waiting patiently 3 years for this game. Good luck!

Edited February 21, 2012 by CaedLucin

[Sknn]

\signed

[DarthSliver]

1. TOO MANY THINGS can be done on the Fleet alone.

Yes you heard me right, and it's killing the exploration aspect of the game. If the current state is still going to be the case for future expansions, you can be sure that no matter how many gazillion planets maybe created in the future, not a single one would be as populated like the Fleet. Therefore it would be pointless and boring because the only thing I see that are "actually alive", are the fidgeting NPCs. What's the point of creating so many worlds when all people do is get over and done with those planet's quests.

 

You need to stop following the current standard MMO formulas and stop making instanced battleground your priority in terms of PVP. Whoever that started this should be given props to, but whoever that followed it religiously afterwards should be shotgunned. j.k.

 

What I meant was, people need to BE ENCOURAGED to going around planets for activities, camping for kills (PVP/PVE), farming stuffs, exploration, Role-playing, etc. You need to give them proper incentives doing so by allowing some things to go sandboxy in order for civilization to thrive. That's what makes Star Wars... well... Star Warsy. It's the community, not the instanced world, not the make your life easy by placing all activities in one area thing, nor the somewhat linear storyline (Though it was both good and a great edition to help ease the tormenting questing period many other MMOs have)

 

You have to make people actually ENJOY going to planets to do all sorts of activities(PVP/PVE/RP/non-combat lame stuffs/mindless but enjoyable stuffs), Enjoying the beautiful scenery whilst questing/whatever or even chill out for the heck of it.

 

I totally agree with this right here, you should check out my idea on how to help with this.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=265194

 

Lemme know what you think. Thanks!

[CaedLucin]

I totally agree with this right here, you should check out my idea on how to help with this.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=265194

 

Lemme know what you think. Thanks!

 

I do agree with you on many points. This is really a major issue with the game that needs ironing out. I do not like the idea of having a major playhouse where everyone come together like one big family. it's a major cluster-fug.

 

One example of placing major NPCs in different planets would be like, let's talk about Class Trainers. We could have Lv10-30 Jedi Class Trainer placed at say the Republic Fleet. Lv1-15 and Lv40-50 Jedi Trainer(s) placed at Tython Jedi Temple. Meaning to say, we can place NPCs that sells different level of usages across different planets/places. It's just a rough example. This may encourage players to go around doing stuffs where they normally would not.

 

BioWare should encourage mini-games like say, Jedi above level 30 could give "lessons" to NPC/Player Jedi learners by engaging in a scripted but open ended debate or Force sparring and gain commendations/republic points/valour points/whatever which can be exchanged for stuffs/etc. Smugglers can actually do smuggling missions for some casual achievements. All players can play Pazaak games, etc, in Cantinas and which can also increase their social points slightly after every game (Must have a cap daily) of course. MMORPGs should not ALWAYS be too focused on PVP/PVE, many MMOs did that, it's high time for something new.

 

I may be a little far fetched in some ideas, but I like to think wild.

 

Anyway I like some of the discussions made in this link below:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=303794

 

Especially the post made by Tal-N on page 1.

Edited February 18, 2012 by CaedLucin

[Chaotic_Phoenix]

I pretty much agree with everything you just said

 

/signed

[CeruleanNite]

1. TOO MANY THINGS can be done on the Fleet alone.

 

The fleet is supposed to be one of the social hubs. You want people to travel more and then complain that travel is bad. Also most things can be completed in other locations besides being on the fleet. Now as for as going back to planets, I agree at this time there isnt much reason for any character to return to their starting planets except when a quest directs them to, but it has been stated by Bioware that they plan on adding quests, etc in the future to take you back to planets you have been to.

 

2. Space is Dead

 

I will agree with this. Besides the few mission you get not much else happens there. This has also been addressed and they stated they are looking to include more space things in the future.

 

3. Too much travelling cinematics/load times.

 

This has been brought up by many people and the most common solution that people seem to say is to remove the orbital stations and spaceports. Now this is a solution but I know that most classes have quest points in some orbital stations and spaceports and it would require some work to get these moved before they can speed up this travel.

 

 

4. Customization options for ALL things possible.

 

They have further stated that they plan on adding more cusomization options to the game. In time I am sure we will see the ability to customize our ship, new armor styles/dyeable armor etc.

 

 

5. No grind on quest? But what about the rest?

 

From what I can figure out you are not so much looking to have quests change but rather have things like hard to get recipes, unique item drops, etc. Not sure if this is where your going or not.

 

6. Dailies, Weeklies, HM, NM

 

To have multiple options to obtain things is a good idea. Yes some people dont like doing the same quests over and over every day.

 

7. Social Interactions/Interfaces improvements

 

I have said it in other posts and will say it again. You can add any type of social event/action/communication/etc and that will not improve the social side of the game. It is the people playing that have to be more social themselves in order for it to improve. Anything added that forces people to be social with others will alienate a lot of people and they either wont do it or they will quit.

 

I for one will talk to people in game, group up when I feel like it and otherwise be as social as I can, but if anything is added that forces me into social situations, then I will not do them and if it stops my gameplay because I didnt do them then I will quit.

 

8. Everyone is JUST TOO INDEPENDENT

Ultimately, my main point is to make everyone SOCIALIZE by being dependent on others for their needs.

 

In your own words your point is to make everyone socialize by being dependant on others and this is wrong.

 

Would you like it if the few people on your server that can do something that you need (make something regardless of what it is) decided that before they do it they basically hold you for ransom?

 

How about that in order to complete some main quest you are forced to group (socialize) with others to do it but no one will thus stopping you progress.

 

MMOs have changed over the years and the developers understand that. They know that by providing a game where people can play solo, but have the option to interact/group up, sells more and tends to have more players. There still in content that requires groups but look at most MMOs that have come out in the past 5+ years, they all can be soloed for the most part.

 

 

My response is below your requests.

[skaidar]

Agreed 200% with the OP

[samistheman]

100% /Signed.

[Unikatze]

1.- Completely Agree! I was amazed there even was a Fleet... I though the Capital World was supposed to be Coruscant. But there's hardly any reason to go back there after level 16.

 

2.- Although I agree Space missions can get boring and repetitive (hell one mission I played yesterday was the same as my first one but with tougher enemies!), but I don't really feel this is a core gameplay aspect. I just see it as a minigame.

However if this were worked on, It'd definetly change the general game experience.

 

3.- *Enter my regular FFXI rant here* But true.

 

4.- I agree. However, the items I want my character to look like shouldn't be too easy to get either.

They're working on appearance stuff though, and I feel that the insertion of Modifiable Orange gear is a huge step up from other MMO's.

They've also now confirmed they're working on a system to keep your orange gear and transfer the stats of endgame gear. That and Hiding the companion's headgear as well.

 

5.- Here you can tell you were a FFXI player.

Even considering all my rants about the game, I can agree that the damned thing was so hard every piece of gear you got gave you a huge sense of accomplishment.

 

6.- 100% agree. I don't think I'll ever do dailies. That's just another way of slavery.

 

7.- Half agree. Though you need to depend on other people to have a fun MMO experience, you can't depend on them for everything. With all the player's leaving recently I've seen people try for hours to get members for a Heroic Mission. It'd be really bad to have to do that just to go out and level like in FFXI, where going out of town by yourself was near suicide.

 

All in all, I don't feel TOR was released too early. It has stuff to work on, sure. All MMOs get upgraded constantly. I feel it's a solid game that was ready for release, and now just needs to work on the details that perhaps we'd never had realized unless we had custommer feedback.

[DjDouglas]

I agree with just about everything you said Except the part of dependence. I like playing alone for the most part. When I do want to group I generally have a friend that I group with and we slam out a mission together. I have not taken part in the large flashpoints and such and I know I am missing out but I am not a large group person. I dont like depending on others or having others depend on me because I do have a personal life and I dont want that "where were you we needed you, your booted from our guild (beats there chest)" mentality. I just assume strike that person down with my saber and be done with them.

 

I do however enjoy helping others. I am a crafter and crafting is my thing. I have posted myself as well as replied in other threads that I would like to see more love and effort go into crafting. I want more personal experiences harvesting and crafting and not just to send my crew out to gather. I would love to see harvesting in this game via harvestors we can construct on many planets. This would give us reason to explore. I would like opportunity to get resources needed for crafting these items on my own and not require that I run through a giant maze with 8 others towards one giant boss and have to roll with those 8 members on the one item I need. I can deal with some items being required to do that. The very rare items. After all there needs to be prizes to draw in players to PVP but every top item available for me to craft requires one resource that you have to run through the hard flashpoints to get and only one of these items drops and it has to be rolled on. There are not enough players to do this constantly and many of these players running this mission are competing to get this item. That to me isn't fun. Most of those people leave when they get what they want and that leaves you looking for another group to run it again. Dont get me wrong, I have the desire to bolt when I get what I need when I have played in groups before and I have a couple of times in other MMO's but I learned it was more polite to stick around and pass on the object to allow the others that needed it to get it. It is rare to find those type of players though.

 

Leave a specific object like a special crystal for your saber or some rare piece of armor for missions like that or even a special schematic, but special resources to build standard but top of the line crafting items that you purchased from your trainer need to be made available through harvesting or very difficult harvesting in single player mode.

Edited February 21, 2012 by DjDouglas

[CaedLucin]

You guys do make valid points on the inter-dependence issue. I kind of agree and disagree, because you could definitely make another character with the skill set with which your other character depends on. But the problem would be if you're willing to spend time training the other character up?

 

What I was referring to was for example crafting, gathering, things or skills which can make players much more powerful should be made hard to achieve not just because they're hard to grind for, but also because they can only be made through the work/crafts of multiple crafter/gatherer types.

 

Anyway I also made a thread post on companions role-playing feature for those who are interested to contribute their ideas or comments. Link's below!

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=3036268#post3036268

Edited February 22, 2012 by CaedLucin