BW ignored the wants and needs of Combat

[Hizoka]

If we wanted to get attention we should be Imperial Agents. We have been ignored since beta while each week devs have been responding in their forum. At this point I don't know what else we can say.

 

I don't know why we are ignored.

 

yeah you do, you seem to of been a constant source of QQ since beta

[raelimar]

If we wanted to get attention we should be Imperial Agents. We have been ignored since beta while each week devs have been responding in their forum. At this point I don't know what else we can say.

 

I don't know why we are ignored.

 

# dev posts/replies to inquisitor/consular boards = 78

# dev posts/replies to warrior/knight boards = 43

# dev posts/replies to bh/trooper boards = 52

# dev posts/replies to agent/smuggler boards = 6

 

Try again. Georg replied twice to update us on a non-working talent that's supposed to buff our HoTs and Surgical Probe (the Republic mirror talent works fine), and we got a couple of replies explaining why Operative damage was nerfed. BioWare has a pet class, but it's not us.

Edited February 21, 2012 by raelimar

[ProfessorWalsh]

# dev posts/replies to inquisitor/consular boards = 78

# dev posts/replies to warrior/knight boards = 43

# dev posts/replies to bh/trooper boards = 52

# dev posts/replies to agent/smuggler boards = 6

 

Try again. Georg replied twice to update us on a non-working talent that's supposed to buff our HoTs and Surgical Probe (the Republic mirror talent works fine), and we got a couple of replies explaining why Operative damage was nerfed. BioWare has a pet class, but it's not us.

 

I haven't seen a single reply here that addressed Sentinels. I saw a couple for Guardians but not one for Sentinels. I have also seen a lot more than 6 in the Agent forums.

[PantsOn]

yeah you do, you seem to of been a constant source of QQ since beta

 

Why do you insist on talking like an absolute cretin while walking around swinging your big "intellect" dick? "you seem to of been"? Seriously?

Edited February 21, 2012 by PantsOn

[Apocalypse-]

I haven't seen a single reply here that addressed Sentinels. I saw a couple for Guardians but not one for Sentinels. I have also seen a lot more than 6 in the Agent forums.

 

Not a single one? So neither of the two on Searing Saber existed? Twilight zone much?

[mrchance]

I come to these forums to learn about which spec is the most optimal. Not listen to a bunch of idiots quarrel over which is better. Provide evidence please over what makes yours better besides your dreary opinion or move on. Some of us forum lurkers are here for information not stupidity.

[PantsOn]

I come to these forums to learn about which spec is the most optimal. Not listen to a bunch of idiots quarrel over which is better. Provide evidence please over what makes yours better besides your dreary opinion or move on. Some of us forum lurkers are here for information not stupidity.

 

When you add a combat log to the game, I'll give you evidence. If you don't like the arguments, then ****, nobody owes you any explanation. This isn't a "mrchance" forum, champ.

[Obi-Rev]

Could everyone please keep their personal argument out of this.

 

First off yes, Sents have been recognized by the devs in the watchman tree, however if you would read what the topic is about, its about the usefulness of combat tree in PVP.

 

I already gave an example of how the watchman tree is stacked with abilities that make it incredibly over the top for PVP compared to combat.

 

What I was trying to get at with this post is the acknowledgement by the devs on the major short comings of combat spec in pvp.

[Venator-Falco]

When you add a combat log to the game, I'll give you evidence. If you don't like the arguments, then ****, nobody owes you any explanation. This isn't a "mrchance" forum, champ.

 

Or Possibly when combat logs are added they will prove that there is actually nothing wrong with the Sentinel at all, And considering there is a large body of evidence to support the theory that there is nothing wrong with the sentinel Chances viewpoint can be supported so your abuse of him is childish and puerile.

As for your statement about no body owing an explanation, if you are going to come to the forums and ****** then doing it without any evidence is just a waste of every one else’s time, it’s as bad or worse than the L2P responses that you often get.

How about you back off a little and accept that there are people who don’t just come to these forums to QQ.

[Obi-Rev]

damage is fine with the combat spec, its just the fact of it being so focus starved that you can't put out that damage. Where watchman has the advantage over combat is the focus gen along with the reduced CD on leap/ no min range and reduced CD on kick. Making it shine in pvp. Can;t tell you how many times i can get burst down a BM healer as combat to the last 15% but then im out of focus and one kick is not enough to prevent the second heal. taking out a healer 1v1 is a very long process as combat compared to watchman. Watchman can lock down a persons casting.

 

So what i was suggesting to make combat tree be a valid spec for pvp is decrease how starved for focus you are, or buff some of the damage just alittle so it would be on par with the amount of focus you then have to spend.

 

As another comparing, look at vigilance in the guarding tree, you're not focused starved.

[Hizoka]

damage is fine with the combat spec, its just the fact of it being so focus starved that you can't put out that damage. Where watchman has the advantage over combat is the focus gen along with the reduced CD on leap/ no min range and reduced CD on kick. Making it shine in pvp. Can;t tell you how many times i can get burst down a BM healer as combat to the last 15% but then im out of focus and one kick is not enough to prevent the second heal. taking out a healer 1v1 is a very long process as combat compared to watchman. Watchman can lock down a persons casting.

 

So what i was suggesting to make combat tree be a valid spec for pvp is decrease how starved for focus you are, or buff some of the damage just alittle so it would be on par with the amount of focus you then have to spend.

 

As another comparing, look at vigilance in the guarding tree, you're not focused starved.

however getting focus starved is not the fault of the spec its yours for not using it more wisely.

[Vasinar]

damage is fine with the combat spec, its just the fact of it being so focus starved that you can't put out that damage. Where watchman has the advantage over combat is the focus gen along with the reduced CD on leap/ no min range and reduced CD on kick. Making it shine in pvp. Can;t tell you how many times i can get burst down a BM healer as combat to the last 15% but then im out of focus and one kick is not enough to prevent the second heal. taking out a healer 1v1 is a very long process as combat compared to watchman. Watchman can lock down a persons casting.

 

So what i was suggesting to make combat tree be a valid spec for pvp is decrease how starved for focus you are, or buff some of the damage just alittle so it would be on par with the amount of focus you then have to spend.

 

As another comparing, look at vigilance in the guarding tree, you're not focused starved.

 

Ive never really had a problem with focus with combat, but I disagree about the dps. Switched to watchmen and dps went up dramatically. My heart is with combat tree, but unfortunately the viability just isnt there

[ProfessorWalsh]

Ive never really had a problem with focus with combat, but I disagree about the dps. Switched to watchmen and dps went up dramatically. My heart is with combat tree, but unfortunately the viability just isnt there

 

This times 100% I noticed a massive improvement when I went to Watchman. Previously unkillable enemies became killable.

 

The power "Guarded by the Force" became more or less god-like in PVE and PVP when I combined it with the health regeneration from burns.

 

Note:

Pop Zen then land Cauterize, switch targets, Overload saber, Merciless slash, switch targets, zealous strike, switch targets, strike, switch targets, cauterize can restore a huge chunk of HP. Combat simply can't compete.

 

Use overload saber, merciless slash, zen, then Force stasis and your Force Stasis does more "damage" than it can in Combat.

 

5,000 damage crits with Merciless slash without stacking adrenals, compared to the 3k crit from Blade Storm, did I mention Merciless slash can hit harder, faster, and helps refresh cauterize in the process?

 

Heck Merciless slash hits almost as hard as Master Strike.

 

Watchman is a good tree.

Combat is a crap tree.

[Mal-Sharran]

This times 100% I noticed a massive improvement when I went to Watchman. Previously unkillable enemies became killable.

 

The power "Guarded by the Force" became more or less god-like in PVE and PVP when I combined it with the health regeneration from burns.

 

Note:

Pop Zen then land Cauterize, switch targets, Overload saber, Merciless slash, switch targets, zealous strike, switch targets, strike, switch targets, cauterize can restore a huge chunk of HP. Combat simply can't compete.

 

Use overload saber, merciless slash, zen, then Force stasis and your Force Stasis does more "damage" than it can in Combat.

 

5,000 damage crits with Merciless slash without stacking adrenals, compared to the 3k crit from Blade Storm, did I mention Merciless slash can hit harder, faster, and helps refresh cauterize in the process?

 

Heck Merciless slash hits almost as hard as Master Strike.

 

Watchman is a good tree.

Combat is a crap tree.

 

While I understand what you're saying, which is combined with burns, then Stasis on top, it melts their health. In reality, Combat Stasis can do more. Stasis does Kinetic. Pop Precision, Cauterize, Stasis. Your Stasis will now be hitting for exactly what the tooltip says. I've seen my Stasis crit for 1000, and it ticks 4 times in 3 seconds. That's a potential 4000 damage (granted all four ticks would have to crit, I've only seen 3 of 4 to date).

 

Merc Slash is 7.5 second cd, takes 4 focus. Blade Rush consumes 2 focus, 1 with Zen, has no cd. I can Blade Rush 4-5 times between Merc Slash cd for over 3k each.

 

Watchman > Combat, as it stands right now. But the whole concept of Combat, when fixed, will rival or beat Watchman. I can't wait for that day to arrive.

[ProfessorWalsh]

While I understand what you're saying, which is combined with burns, then Stasis on top, it melts their health. In reality, Combat Stasis can do more. Stasis does Kinetic. Pop Precision, Cauterize, Stasis. Your Stasis will now be hitting for exactly what the tooltip says. I've seen my Stasis crit for 1000, and it ticks 4 times in 3 seconds. That's a potential 4000 damage (granted all four ticks would have to crit, I've only seen 3 of 4 to date).

 

Merc Slash is 7.5 second cd, takes 4 focus. Blade Rush consumes 2 focus, 1 with Zen, has no cd. I can Blade Rush 4-5 times between Merc Slash cd for over 3k each.

 

Watchman > Combat, as it stands right now. But the whole concept of Combat, when fixed, will rival or beat Watchman. I can't wait for that day to arrive.

 

I have never gotten Blade Rush to hit for 3k each, certainly not reliably. Usually it was hitting for around 1300-1500. Yes, I do agree, when it is fixed Combat will edge out Watchman.

 

It currently isn't fixed though.

Edited February 22, 2012 by ProfessorWalsh

[Adrykk]

BioWare isn't ignoring the needs of Sentinels and combat.

 

They'll get to it. This game is still pretty new. There haven't been any huge overhauls and that's what combat needs.

 

You can't just patch it with a band aid and call it fixed.

 

There were some things in beta that I miss. especially burning winds. That talent was FUN. However, i can see how it steps on watchman's toes as the DOT tree.

 

I wish they would make combat more flexible to deviate from the fixed rotation and trying to mash all your heavy hitters within the 6 second window of precision slash, hoping your opportune strikes, combat trance, etc.. is up...

 

I switched to watchman and am usually #1 DPS in WZs now and usually 2nd or 3rd in healing to boot... unless I get focus fired or Imps play it smart.

 

I will say I miss combat, though, and hope for it's revival.

[Hizoka]

BioWare isn't ignoring the needs of Sentinels and combat.

 

They'll get to it. This game is still pretty new. There haven't been any huge overhauls and that's what combat needs.

 

You can't just patch it with a band aid and call it fixed.

 

There were some things in beta that I miss. especially burning winds. That talent was FUN. However, i can see how it steps on watchman's toes as the DOT tree.

 

I wish they would make combat more flexible to deviate from the fixed rotation and trying to mash all your heavy hitters within the 6 second window of precision slash, hoping your opportune strikes, combat trance, etc.. is up...

 

I switched to watchman and am usually #1 DPS in WZs now and usually 2nd or 3rd in healing to boot... unless I get focus fired or Imps play it smart.

 

I will say I miss combat, though, and hope for it's revival.

 

Combat has had MASSIVE overhauls, but not since live, if you think things are bad you should of seen the game back in july. Its really annoying how these keyboard warriors and QQers have 0 concept of how much the game changed in the few months before launch. You seem to want everything your way instantly, sorry that is not how the real world works so either grow the hell up or go play something else.

[AstralProjection]

I've played Combat religiously since Beta for the same reasons you mentioned. Combat is the only spec that even feels like what Jedi Sentinel is supposed to be - Lightsaber combat. Bleed effects for a move called Cauterize just confuses me.

 

I love the spec, love the moves, my biggest issue is that I know I can respec and almost double my damage and heal my team as well. I'm trading all that for a ranged root and root on master strike, essentially, and well, to feel more like a Jedi.

 

I don't have problems getting kills as combat, but I will say that it makes me sad to see what I could be dishing out if I was specced Watchman.

 

Blade rush spam is very powerful - but requires you to maintain melee range - I think that's why Watchman shines so much.

 

Honestly, I end up getting a ton of killing blows as combat spec - I love Prec Slash + Dispatch to finish someone with a massive shot - but I'm never dealing the damage I could be.

 

I'm one of those guys that really doesn't care about numbers as long as I'm winning regularly, which I am, and feel like I'm dropping the targets I choose to attack, which I am. Thankfully I'm in a great guild that doesn't look at numbers and understands the other utility a Combat Sentinel can provide.

 

I'm scared to think what might happen to a lot of Sentinels when damage meters come out though. Once damage is under a microscope, you're going to be perceived as a fool for not taking the recognized "spec" in many circles.

[Darkshadz]

The BIG con with watchman sentinels is that any smart healer will cleanse their burns and proceed with lolspamming heals and cleanse in-between. Good luck taking down a smart healer. Not much is needed to buff combat sentinels and I'm sure BW will work on them pretty soon.

[PantsOn]

Or Possibly when combat logs are added they will prove that there is actually nothing wrong with the Sentinel at all, And considering there is a large body of evidence to support the theory that there is nothing wrong with the sentinel Chances viewpoint can be supported so your abuse of him is childish and puerile.

As for your statement about no body owing an explanation, if you are going to come to the forums and ****** then doing it without any evidence is just a waste of every one else’s time, it’s as bad or worse than the L2P responses that you often get.

How about you back off a little and accept that there are people who don’t just come to these forums to QQ.

 

*** are you talking about? Did I ever say there was anything wrong with the Sentinels? What abuse are you talking about? You mean me pointing out the fact that his request was impossible to fill due to the lack of a combat log or the fact that he wasn't entitled to anything on the forums? As for your 2nd part, what evidence are you talking about? How can I produce evidence to you without a combat log? It's all theory crafting at this point and, yes, that's what the forums are for.

 

I'm not sure what your last sentence has to do with anything, and I'm beginning to think you're just a very confused person.

Edited February 22, 2012 by PantsOn

[PantsOn]

I've played Combat religiously since Beta for the same reasons you mentioned. Combat is the only spec that even feels like what Jedi Sentinel is supposed to be - Lightsaber combat. Bleed effects for a move called Cauterize just confuses me.

 

I love the spec, love the moves, my biggest issue is that I know I can respec and almost double my damage and heal my team as well. I'm trading all that for a ranged root and root on master strike, essentially, and well, to feel more like a Jedi.

 

I don't have problems getting kills as combat, but I will say that it makes me sad to see what I could be dishing out if I was specced Watchman.

 

Blade rush spam is very powerful - but requires you to maintain melee range - I think that's why Watchman shines so much.

 

Honestly, I end up getting a ton of killing blows as combat spec - I love Prec Slash + Dispatch to finish someone with a massive shot - but I'm never dealing the damage I could be.

 

I'm one of those guys that really doesn't care about numbers as long as I'm winning regularly, which I am, and feel like I'm dropping the targets I choose to attack, which I am. Thankfully I'm in a great guild that doesn't look at numbers and understands the other utility a Combat Sentinel can provide.

 

I'm scared to think what might happen to a lot of Sentinels when damage meters come out though. Once damage is under a microscope, you're going to be perceived as a fool for not taking the recognized "spec" in many circles.

 

Yeah, BR spam does require you to stay in range and there are simply too many CC's/slows in the game to be extremely effective with it in PvP. That is the Achilles heel of Combat PvP.

[Darkshadz]

Yeah, BR spam does require you to stay in range and there are simply too many CC's/slows in the game to be extremely effective with it in PvP. That is the Achilles heel of Combat PvP.

 

Combat sentinels can root people with crippling throw. Sentinels have enough tools to avoid getting kited for an extended period of time, regardless of the spec.

[Adrykk]

Combat has had MASSIVE overhauls, but not since live, if you think things are bad you should of seen the game back in july. Its really annoying how these keyboard warriors and QQers have 0 concept of how much the game changed in the few months before launch. You seem to want everything your way instantly, sorry that is not how the real world works so either grow the hell up or go play something else.

 

Ummm, what the hell are you talking about? Nothing in my post merited such a ridiculously hostile response. Did you even read it? Are you sure you were posting towards the right person? /reread post. You must be incredibly blind/dense and/or are just looking for a reason to be hostile. Go have some tea and relax.

 

I'm referring to Post Launch. I'm aware it had huge overhauls in beta, and changed very frequently, especially right up to launch.

 

What it needs now is an overhaul POST Launch. The tree has absolutely no direction. Correction, the tree has a far too narrow direction, given that there are 5-6 talents linked together.

 

Also, think before you post. You're only making yourself look silly.

[Venator-Falco]

Ummm, what the hell are you talking about? Nothing in my post merited such a ridiculously hostile response. Did you even read it? Are you sure you were posting towards the right person? /reread post. You must be incredibly blind/dense and/or are just looking for a reason to be hostile. Go have some tea and relax.

 

I'm referring to Post Launch. I'm aware it had huge overhauls in beta, and changed very frequently, especially right up to launch.

 

What it needs now is an overhaul POST Launch. The tree has absolutely no direction. Correction, the tree has a far too narrow direction, given that there are 5-6 talents linked together.

 

Also, think before you post. You're only making yourself look silly.

 

All the shoot from the hip posts from lots of people around here are making them look silly.

I couldn’t see anything particularly hostile in Hizokas post, though I know he is quite renowned for hostility. Then again I have also seen him post some very informative content in these forums.

Personally I disagree that there is any need of an overhaul in Combat. Maybe from a PvP perspective something can afford to change or you just accept that combat is no a PvP build. If all builds fill the same role, why bother having different builds at all?

When it comes to PvE I find that the manner in which you stack abilities is what makes Combat fun yes it is focused, it is focused towards maximum damage in minimum time on one target, and when played well it is spectacular at doing this.

[kaya]

I think people are beginning to cop combat on my server. They tend to save their knockback / stun / 'get the hell off me' move for when precision goes up. The damage difference between a player i flat out cant hit during precision slash and someone that lets me is pretty drastic. Its a bit too easy to counter.

I really wish they'd seperate the talent that restores 1 focus and makes blade storm auto crit too.

Getting an ataru proc at a bad time can really screw up your rotation.

Just make ataru procs restore 1 focus but no more often that once every six seconds. And the auto crit on blade storm get refreshed every ataru proc.

 

I prefer combat and really dont want to go back to watchman but i cant deny its a flat out better spec, hell even focus is probably better.

It just gets the short end of the stick on so many aspects of the class (centering, survivability, utility). There isn't really anything to recommend it over the other specs.