BW ignored the wants and needs of Combat

[Obi-Rev]

With a large amount of people wanting to play combat spec in pvp, because it is exactly what you think of when sentinel is mentioned....not DOTS, and not Force Sweeping every 9 secs ....combat is the description of the sentinel class. Yet we are forced into watchman or focus just to be able contend...I avg 300k+ as watchman spec and peaked at 570k (in VS) as focus spec. As watchman spec i don't even fear jumping in a pack of 3 imps, more times than not I can kill all 3 if I have all my CD's available.

 

I know it sounds like im bragging but im getting to my point.

 

The point being I love that the Sentinel class is a hard class to play and actually takes brain power to do it (unlike all the other 3 button classes)...However already working 3x as hard to kill someone seems to skyrocket to 6x as hard while playing as combat ( if fighting a healer, good luck..takes fooorever as combat to take one down.)

 

This is not a QQ forum, just a ANOTHER forum on how combat NEEDS to be addressed, I mean just a simple reply from the devs specifically telling us they will look into the combat spec is all I want and I know for a fact alot more of you would love it as well.

 

As far as a constructive suggestion on how to fix the tree, im not sure maybe bump the Ataru strike damage by alittle more, or move the offhand damage buff higher in the tree and add a higher % increase for offhand. Hell the could even make crippling throw % debuff on healing a tad higher or even make precision slash armor pen last longer than 6 secs or reduce the focus cost of it. Maybe add something to the tree to make it less focus starved ( I never have a problem with focus as watchman or focus )

 

Maybe you all can place some input and help bump this thread and maybe, just maybe the devs will finally give us some answers.

[Xerain]

in beta combat had free blade storm after leap and then blade storm talented to 6 second cool down... Made combat pretty nice in terms of damage... Not sure why they removed those two things from the class.

[PantsOn]

in beta combat had free blade storm after leap and then blade storm talented to 6 second cool down... Made combat pretty nice in terms of damage... Not sure why they removed those two things from the class.

 

Probably because it was OP. I think people really underestimate the potential of the Blade Rush spam in Zen. It does gobs of damage.

[Lashlarue]

in beta combat had free blade storm after leap and then blade storm talented to 6 second cool down... Made combat pretty nice in terms of damage... Not sure why they removed those two things from the class.

 

I really miss this...

 

[Obi-Rev]

yeah it would be nice to know why they removed it, all im asking is for the Devs to acknowledge the combat tree.

[Xerain]

Probably because it was OP. I think people really underestimate the potential of the Blade Rush spam in Zen. It does gobs of damage.

 

Last time i did combat was in beta and at the time blade rush wasn't working with zen so it wasn't giving the .5 off gcd for it...

 

 

Does ataru proc after blade rush while zen is active?

[PantsOn]

Last time i did combat was in beta and at the time blade rush wasn't working with zen so it wasn't giving the .5 off gcd for it...

 

 

Does ataru proc after blade rush while zen is active?

 

Oh yeah, it procs and double procs... you're doing thousands of damage in seconds. It's crazy.

[Ravrohan]

in beta combat had free blade storm after leap and then blade storm talented to 6 second cool down... Made combat pretty nice in terms of damage... Not sure why they removed those two things from the class.

 

The talent to boost ataru form damage was also 40% rather than 30, and zealous strike did more damage on a shorter CD. The talent just boosted the amount of focus you recieved (4 I think?)

 

Not quite related, but there was also a talent "Burning Winds" that let force sweep spread a targets cauterize dot to everyone else in the AoE.

[petermango]

Had enough of combat. Just switched to Watchman today and watched my damage increase w/o being familiar with the rotation by around 25%.

[Zenmar]

Our spec is based on Precision Slash. It is simply absurd - in a game with SO MANY CC - that it lasts 6 seconds.

Plus we are forced to follow a specific LONG rotation to deal a decent damage. It's ok for pve, awful in pvp. And if you lose your precision slash's armor penetration because of a cc you have to rebuild focus and start again.

If you have a pocket healer you can do good, my record is around 320k damage with 65 kills, but you don't always have good teams behind you. A friend of mine is watchman specced and he easily out-dps me in warzones, and my gear is A LOT better.

I played beta only for a while, so I don't know how the spec was before release, but now it is simply weak in the hands of the average player, and decent in the hands of a good player.

I hope they will do something soon, because I really love Combat's mechanics, and I don't want to be a dotter.

[Obi-Rev]

Our spec is based on Precision Slash. It is simply absurd - in a game with SO MANY CC - that it lasts 6 seconds.

Plus we are forced to follow a specific LONG rotation to deal a decent damage. It's ok for pve, awful in pvp. And if you lose your precision slash's armor penetration because of a cc you have to rebuild focus and start again.

If you have a pocket healer you can do good, my record is around 320k damage with 65 kills, but you don't always have good teams behind you. A friend of mine is watchman specced and he easily out-dps me in warzones, and my gear is A LOT better.

I played beta only for a while, so I don't know how the spec was before release, but now it is simply weak in the hands of the average player, and decent in the hands of a good player.

I hope they will do something soon, because I really love Combat's mechanics, and I don't want to be a dotter.

 

exactly, I hate being a doter yet seems to be the only real way to do outstanding damage

[Hizoka]

combat was better when the class flowed better. I have ALWAYS prefered watchmen because of the playstlye but back in beta before centering exsisted combat was equal to watchmen, now after the changed being combat make you slightly worse off then a DPS guardian. I personaly would like to see the specs equal so people can play what like enjoy better, but as it sits right now Combat is inferior in every way to Watchmen.

[SteveGarbage]

I've got to agree that Combat can use some additional love. It may be as simple as increasing the damage a bit on skills like Blade Rush, Blade Storm and Ataru, since those are some of the major pieces of the spec.

 

I've been with Watchman since I started and loved it, but the more I hear from Combat players the more I believe that there really is a build issue and not a player issue.

[Ravrohan]

combat was better when the class flowed better. I have ALWAYS prefered watchmen because of the playstlye but back in beta before centering exsisted combat was equal to watchmen, now after the changed being combat make you slightly worse off then a DPS guardian. I personaly would like to see the specs equal so people can play what like enjoy better, but as it sits right now Combat is inferior in every way to Watchmen.

 

Just going to point out, it wasn't that they added centering that was the problem exactly. It was the other areas where they nerfed the spec (presumably to 'balance' it around centering perhaps) that happened at the same time that was the problem.

[Apocalypse-]

Damage output is not Combat's problem. It never was, and it's still competitive in raw damage for PvE. If you buff just damage enough where it "balances" it for PvP, you just forced all sentinels to roll Ataru for PvE and forced progression guilds to ignore any DPS who is not an Ataru Sentinel.

 

Combat's problem is that it's not self-sufficient like Watchman while also not having the durability of Focus in addition to being the least mobile of the three specs and the worst on centering generation of the three specs. In short, it's the ability to deliver the damage that's the problem, not the damage available.

 

You want to fix Ataru? Your 3 shortcomings that need to be addressed:

1. Mobility
   
2. Survivability
   
3. Centering Generation
   

 

The third is the least important, because if mobility and survivability are addressed, Ataru's Zen can actually put out a lot of damage, so you don't want it too frequently.

[Hizoka]

Just going to point out, it wasn't that they added centering that was the problem exactly. It was the other areas where they nerfed the spec (presumably to 'balance' it around centering perhaps) that happened at the same time that was the problem.

 

no it wasn't it was the change of the cooldown of bladestorm, which is when they added centering, or were about to.. The spec no longer flows as well. When Combat trace was 6 seconds and blade strom was a 6 second cooldown it flowed perfectly now not so much.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Hizoka

[Zenmar]

Damage output is not Combat's problem.

 

I don't think so. I play everyday with a watchman guild mate, and I can tell you that he does more damage than me in PvE without seeing a combat log. He simply hits harder. Last night we did Belsavis daily quests (heroic ones) together and he always had the mobs on him. I studied a lot to express combat's potential, but there is a gap in every aspect between the two specs that skill cannot always balance. I killed many marauders with watchman mirror, but when I face one who knows how to play his spec, no chance, I'm dead.

 

Watchman > Combat.

[Apocalypse-]

I don't think so. I play everyday with a watchman guild mate, and I can tell you that he does more damage than me in PvE without seeing a combat log. He simply hits harder. Last night we did Belsavis daily quests (heroic ones) together and he always had the mobs on him. I studied a lot to express combat's potential, but there is a gap in every aspect between the two specs that skill cannot always balance. I killed many marauders with watchman mirror, but when I face one who knows how to play his spec, no chance, I'm dead.

 

Watchman > Combat.

 

Oh, I undoubtedly agree with your conclusion, just not your reasoning. When fighting a Watchman Sentinel, you cannot use threat as a end-all for damage output. If your damage output is identical, he will have threat because of healing. Also in a tie, the first person to hit the mob is unlikely to lose aggro.

 

You also cannot ignore the possibility that he was very lucky on crits/Burning Focus procs while you were unlucky with crits/Ataru procs AND he had the added damage output of Rebuke if the mob was attacking him and Riposte if he was using it.

 

Sentinels are very good at not relinquishing aggro once they've gotten it (it's one of the reasons I believe we make solid tanks), so you can't really use aggro as a great judge of DPS when you're talking about sentinels vs any other class.

 

Even if I were to concede that Combat's damage falls behind(which I don't), it still isn't the biggest issue facing Combat spec.

[Zenmar]

Oh, I undoubtedly agree with your conclusion, just not your reasoning. When fighting a Watchman Sentinel, you cannot use threat as a end-all for damage output. If your damage output is identical, he will have threat because of healing. Also in a tie, the first person to hit the mob is unlikely to lose aggro.

 

You also cannot ignore the possibility that he was very lucky on crits/Burning Focus procs while you were unlucky with crits/Ataru procs AND he had the added damage output of Rebuke if the mob was attacking him and Riposte if he was using it.

 

Sentinels are very good at not relinquishing aggro once they've gotten it (it's one of the reasons I believe we make solid tanks), so you can't really use aggro as a great judge of DPS when you're talking about sentinels vs any other class.

 

Even if I were to concede that Combat's damage falls behind(which I don't), it still isn't the biggest issue facing Combat spec.

 

Forgot to say that he also slay normal, strong and elite mobs faster than me even if my gear is better. I mean, you don't need a combat log to see these differences. I tried watchman and even if I don't like it, I know it is superior in every aspect, INCLUDING damage output.

[Obi-Rev]

Forgot to say that he also slay normal, strong and elite mobs faster than me even if my gear is better. I mean, you don't need a combat log to see these differences. I tried watchman and even if I don't like it, I know it is superior in every aspect, INCLUDING damage output.

 

well where watchman > combat in pvp is better focus generation, better centering gen, healing, more interrupts, min range on leap gone, and damage is tad better ( just because of the focus gen is much faster)

[Prplayah]

I love My Combat Sent, but i agree with the OP we need some work done. Hopfully the dev can see this and help us out. it seems to me like every one who post anything about SEntinel are spec in watchman or focus. i'ma stick to COmbat till the end it's good to know that theirs other players that will be doing the same.

[Obi-Rev]

well right now im putting together a video to show the difference in pvp between the two specs, I mean for example, i was an idiot and didn't even have juyo form on and still took on 3v1...i'll post the link to the video via this forum when i finish the edit.

[JediMasterKent]

As buggy as combat is, I'm able do more damage than any watchmen. Combat does not need any sort of buff but rather, it needs it's buggy talents + animation stutters fixed.

 

Though, I do say this pre-surge nerf because of this, watchmen pulls slightly ahead. This is incredibly sad for me to say but, until they fix talents + animation stutters Combat won't do as much damage as watchmen.

Edited February 19, 2012 by JediMasterKent

[kaya]

Personally i think watchmans centering generation is 90% of the reason its better.

Ignoring the heals on zen it does a crap load of damage too and i'd say i get just short of double the centering with the valor talent.

Combats zen is good but it requires you to line up a lot of cd's and have a full bar of focus to take advantage of, which isn't particularly true of watchman (if os is off cd your good to go basically).

 

A good centering talent in the combat tree would go a long way imo.

[Toochbag]

The problem isn't with the spec itself, the spec is bugged HORRIBLY right now. I dont know the name off the top of my head, but there is an ability that says "When you're ataru form procs, you get a 100% chance of having your next focus spender deal 10% more damage." THIS ABILITY DOES NOT WORK. The armor pen for the class is amazing, the damage is amazing. HOWEVER, A MAJOR DAMaGE INCREASE DOES NOT WORK. Watch your buffs sometime, you'll be lucky if you get the buff 20% of the time.

 

The combat spec shines late-game 50 because of accuracy. I was sc****** 109% accuracy, which reduces armor even more. Give them time to fix it and combat will be vicious.