Angedechu Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 http://www.1up.com/news/god-war-creator-calls-story What I mean is that deep story telling is important in a game. But games are NOT the best medium for story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanzoV Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 http://www.1up.com/news/god-war-creator-calls-story What I mean is that deep story telling is important in a game. But games are NOT the best medium for story. Traditionally. But there's nothing to say that games (certain genres) can't become a viable medium for storytelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarrot Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 http://www.1up.com/news/god-war-creator-calls-story What I mean is that deep story telling is important in a game. But games are NOT the best medium for story. I would disagree... there have been some great stories in games and I think games work as an excellent medium for immerse story telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angedechu Posted February 17, 2012 Author Share Posted February 17, 2012 Key word : I said ''not the best'' For telling stories, the best medium is by far, litterature. I mean, for hearing about a guy that goes with a bunch of losers against a terrible foe and win in a super climatic battle, Henry V does objectively a way better job than Saving Private Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerrard_Ennui Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Interesting read and very enjoyable. Agreed, a game with incredible mechanics and compelling gameplay does create its own story for the player; there's no need to beat your players over the head with cutscenes if your game is really interactive. Of course Jaffe is only describing his personal philosophy and outlook on the industry. He does state that all players are not the same and some feel that a balance can be reached. I agree with him though. A game is not a movie and it shouldn't try to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarai Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 You're completely incorrect. The best medium for telling a story depends entirely on the story. Games can be used to tell certain stories better than any work of literature ever could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viewtifuldee Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 If anything, IMO, games are a great tool for storytelling. Since you're controlling the main character and moving the story forward, you're a part of that story instead of being on the outside looking in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerrard_Ennui Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 For telling stories, the best medium is by far, litterature. I mean, for hearing about a guy that goes with a bunch of losers against a terrible foe and win in a super climatic battle, Henry V does objectively a way better job than Saving Private Ryan.The sad part is that people will disagree with you on this, but yeah - Shakespeare > Spielberg. You're completely incorrect. The best medium for telling a story depends entirely on the story. Games can be used to tell certain stories better than any work of literature ever could.Well, the article already said that people will disagree so we're aware of that from the beginning. This is just one particular developer's outlook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarai Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 The sad part is that people will disagree with you on this, but yeah - Shakespeare > Spielberg. Well, the article already said that people will disagree so we're aware of that from the beginning. This is just one particular developer's outlook. Two things: Play != Literature. Not the same thing. Secondly, it's just a fact that the ideal medium depends on the story being told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerrard_Ennui Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 This particular quote really hit home: By chasing movies game makers have slowed the growth of game mechanics. Last year's crop of first-person-shooters, as we pointed out at the time, look and play nearly identical because the industry has let mechanical innovation languish in favor of a ceaseless quest to perfect film-like elements like set pieces, audio and graphical quality, or higher-fidelity cutscenes. I couldn't help but think of TOR when I read this. Its the same symptom - a game that has focused on its cinematic element to the detriment of its actual gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarai Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) I couldn't help but think of TOR when I read this. Its the same symptom - a game that has focused on its cinematic element to the detriment of its actual gameplay. I suppose you're choosing to forget the fact that the "cinematic element" is part of the gameplay? Developing the involved mechanics further would, of course, be good. Using mechanics to help tell the story is a vital part of doing game story well. Edited February 17, 2012 by Inarai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cammerroooon Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I agree with the statement that books can be more immersive, because it's up to you to create that mental picture of what's happening, but I also agree with the fact that a book sometimes isn't the best way to casually enjoy a story, there's no discounting movies from books, or plays from literature because really they're just different mediums for us to experience something. I think they complement each other, sometimes anyway, because we all know what horrors movies can make of a book *cough battlefield earth cough* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt_Skipjack Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 The issue with most story telling games, in my opinion, is that when you reach then end, then what? Roll credits? Most of the story based games i play i finish then uninstall, sure i could play as a diffrent calss but essenualy its the same story just shooting arrows/lazors instead of sladhing away with lightsabers/swords. Happy medium can work but its a balance found rarely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarai Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I agree with the statement that books can be more immersive, because it's up to you to create that mental picture of what's happening, but I also agree with the fact that a book sometimes isn't the best way to casually enjoy a story, there's no discounting movies from books, or plays from literature because really they're just different mediums for us to experience something. I think they complement each other, sometimes anyway, because we all know what horrors movies can make of a book *cough battlefield earth cough* Sorry, but no. Done RIGHT, game story telling is far more immersive - experiencing the events is far more powerful than painting a mental picture of them. However, there's a lot of ways to do it wrong - what Jaffe's essentially done is basically like looking at bad writing and using that to make the argument that people shouldn't use writing to tell stories. This is an obviously ridiculous argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanzoV Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Honestly, and I'm not saying this as a bad thing, I think the object of making some games more like interactive movies, is to bring in more casual gamers. Being that there are so many different types of games, I don't see a problem. Edited February 17, 2012 by HanzoV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarai Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) The issue with most story telling games, in my opinion, is that when you reach then end, then what? Roll credits? Most of the story based games i play i finish then uninstall, sure i could play as a diffrent calss but essenualy its the same story just shooting arrows/lazors instead of sladhing away with lightsabers/swords. Happy medium can work but its a balance found rarely. Some interesting AI based research that would solve that issue in a big way - essentially morphing game story into something more like traditional oral storytelling, where it's different depending on how the audience responds (well beyond simple deterministic "these conversation options lead to..."). Basically making the story and the game itself different if you played through it in different ways. Edited February 17, 2012 by Inarai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsmileey Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) http://www.1up.com/news/god-war-creator-calls-story What I mean is that deep story telling is important in a game. But games are NOT the best medium for story. I have got more emotional playing Mass Effect 1 & 2 (and the demo for 3) than many great movies out there. You have to be insane to think that games is not a great medium for storytelling. It all depends on each individual, if you are not one to focus on story; you probably won't care much either way. I never payed any attention to the storyline in World of Warcraft, but I knew EVERY last bit of it from the RTS -- Warcraft I / II / III / FT. Point is, no matter what you say, story's are what drive many games out there. Edited February 17, 2012 by djsmileey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vyradder Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) His argument seems to be that developers spend more time worrying about the cinematic aspects of a given game in spite of the gameplay elements of the game because there's the perception that more money can be made by doing so, and this hurts game development (of the game parts of the game). I find myself agreeing somewhat, though I see no problem with adding cinematics to a game on top of a solid game engine..but his point that cinematics should not replace gameplay is bang on. I've pretty much replaced TV with MMO's because of this...with TV it's passive, you just sit there, with an MMO, you can shape the story. Edited February 17, 2012 by Vyradder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dezzi Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) The problem this guy has is that he assumes all games are created equal; that an RTS is the same as an MMO, or that an RPG is the same as a FPS. Each genre of games brings with it different tool sets and expectations--which wildly affect the direction and feel of the game. I don't expect to get enthralled by the story of Farmville simply because it's not meant to be played that way--the game itself does little to promote a story of any kind. Whereas Mass Effect, with its hand-tailored mechanics, promotes the very specific story the game is trying to tell. Said another way, there's no way the story in Skyrim could be told the same way if put into the framework of TOR's game mechanics. So while this guy might have a point that there are other, better mediums for story-telling, games certainly shouldn't be discredited for their own ability to do it--and do it well. Edited February 17, 2012 by Dezzi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claymaniac Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Games are a great medium for storytelling. Movies are a great medium for storytelling. Books are a great medium for storytelling. Its a cop out to say games aren't a good medium for storytelling. Sounds like an excuse to me. I feel games can actually enhance average storylines to feel better, because of the interactivity. But, that doesn't mean you should be satisfied with just delivering an average story. Honestly, games have advantages that movies and books don't to deliver a story. Games can create a history and lore for their worlds much better. For example the Dragon Age and Mass Effect games with their codex and other tools. Even TOR. If I'm watching Mass Effect in movie form or reading it in book form and halfway through come across the Hanar, I might be confused. While in a game, hit the codex and you got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limedust Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 You're completely incorrect. The best medium for telling a story depends entirely on the story. Games can be used to tell certain stories better than any work of literature ever could. Example? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsmileey Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 He mentioned this in the review, that story driven games are not the only track we should have gotten off on. But the reality is, gaming companies don't shape the direction we go, consumers do. Consumers purchase the games they enjoy or media convinced them to buy through advertisements. If we as consumers pick <insert genre here> we can't really blame the industry for creating games that reflect those interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerrard_Ennui Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I have got more emotional playing Mass Effect 1 & 2 (and the demo for 3) than many great movies out there.What playing ME2 (i dont remember 1, too long ago) I specifically remember wishing that I could zoom out to a fullscreen-battlefield view to get more strategic, tactical placement of my characters. I remember being frustrated with the menus and the UI that didnt accurately show information. A hundred times I though 'it would sure be cool if...' in respect to the combat system. I wished there were more gameplay options. Sure the story was cool and all but gameplay mechanics facilitate forward motion of the plot in any game. If those mechanics are weak or subpar, no amount of cutscenes will hide that - again, as we're seeing with TOR. I've pretty much replaced TV with MMO's because of this...with TV it's passive, you just sit there, with an MMO, you can shape the story.Pretty much every gamer i know has stopped watching television years ago because of this. Said another way, there's no way the story in Skyrim could be told the same way if put into the framework of TOR's game mechanics.I never got interested in the story in Skyrim, I was too busy trying to negotiate the god-awful sloppy combat system. I did not succeed. Gameplay is paramount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djsmileey Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 What playing ME2 (i dont remember 1, too long ago) I specifically remember wishing that I could zoom out to a fullscreen-battlefield view to get more strategic, tactical placement of my characters. I remember being frustrated with the menus and the UI that didnt accurately show information. A hundred times I though 'it would sure be cool if...' in respect to the combat system. I wished there were more gameplay options. Sure the story was cool and all but gameplay mechanics facilitate forward motion of the plot in any game. If those mechanics are weak or subpar, no amount of cutscenes will hide that - again, as we're seeing with TOR. Pretty much every gamer i know has stopped watching television years ago because of this. I never got interested in the story in Skyrim, I was too busy trying to negotiate the god-awful sloppy combat system. I did not succeed. Gameplay is paramount. Thats why we call it 'preferences' Your preferences =/= my preferences. I prefer story, and the mechanics are less important to me than story. That doesn't make me right or you wrong, or vice versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
areto Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) I agree with him more or less. A game should be compelling as a game, not as a movie where you do the boring bits of traveling around they leave out of movies. A static medium is best for telling a story. A dynamic interactive medium is best for playing a story, creating it as you go along like kids in a playground. But I think there have been a few titles which get the balance right which are cinematic and plenty which get the balance right which aren't. As an example which you probably will scoff at if you haven't played it, The bit in Saint's Row 3 where you skydive onto the roof of a building and Kayne West's song Power kicks off in the background is one of the coolest bits out of any recent game I've played and therefore one of the most memorable and satisfying. (And you don't loose control of your character for a moment.) Edited February 17, 2012 by areto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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