Nomiematiko Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 has anyone else been killed by an operative coming out of stealth and stunning you then killing you in less that 5 seconds? Does anyone else think that stealth should only be given to healers to get out of trouble? I am interested in what others think. Get gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haralin Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Stealth must be like in Warhammer you can only Stealth 30 sec or something like that Edited February 17, 2012 by Haralin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RageBlitz Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 My problem with stealth or whatever CDs stealth classes have that drops DOTs/damage whatever, is that the cooldowns are too short. A friend and I were speedering through Ilum doing PVE dailies. We see a red name so we jump on him. He gets down to 25%, stealth! He's gone. 30 seconds later he pops out of stealth and attacks. We get him down to 25%, stealth! He's gone. 30 seconds later he pops out of stealth and attacks. We get him down to 25%, stealth! He's gone. The stealth/cleanse/immunity skill needs about a 4-5 mins CD. It's a good skill to have when it's needed in a pinch, but it won't allow stealthers to be immune to world PVP. Are you serious? Yea so an operative would be able to stealth 1-2 times in e.g. a huttball game. Ffs think before you post crap. I'm having trouble with stealthers aswell being a sorc, sure I die to them but if they don't jump me completely or have all their skills available, I'm hardly a sitting duck. And like people say, it's my own fault for running around solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMKSED Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 If you look @ a game like Tera, they've done away with stealth entirely because it was too difficult to balance. Stealth IS a significant advantage in PVP. Just look @ rogues + druids in WOW. For the longest time they had the highest representation in Arenas. LOLTera. The game that steals, literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DariuszPol Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 has anyone else been killed by an operative coming out of stealth and stunning you then killing you in less that 5 seconds? Does anyone else think that stealth should only be given to healers to get out of trouble? I am interested in what others think. Healers are already overpowered. Some of you can even outheal DPS and even if you can it take dam long to kill healers. I personally think that stealth classes are designed in this game to counter healers. When we fight on Alderan or Voidstar it's something like that. 1. Mele fight in fron 2. Range fight in second line 3. Healers are behind and do their job. So it's our job to move around you and take care of healers by killing them or forcing them to heal themselves so they must stop healing team mates. Simple. Since mele classes don't engage healers too much. I do admit some people are mad at me when I use hidden strike, put them on the ground, stun them, damage then and when they are clear and have only 50% i use vanish (yeah, in fight when I don't need to ) just to use hidden strike again and put them to ground. Then I repeat whole circle. Minus of that strategy is that I'm out of vanish for 1m and I can be killed. But it's great when I have group support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DariuszPol Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 This is a lie! Vanish has a 2 Min Cooldown Nope. On my skill tree there is something that bring vanish cooldown to 60s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalmac Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 All combat hide should be time limitted not for perma imba undetected hide mode.. Well if that is the case then my defense and damage better be really increased to make up for the fact that we now hit like a wet noddle. A BM hits more each round then I do with my opener. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metalmac Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Nope. On my skill tree there is something that bring vanish cooldown to 60s Also Disappearing Act has a 2 min cooldown. So you are making crap up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalantris Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 There is one thing about stealth. It does give great advantage, only not in PvP in general, but in warzones. Warzones = tactics. I played one against a team with 5 stealthers. Impossible to play. You have literally no idea where 5/8 of the enemy team is, you can never know how to position your guys and you always fight greater numbers, because the enemy stealths to you. Personally I have nothing against stealthers, I just say that it's ridiculous you can have 5 of them in an 8 man team. There should be limits to that. Regards, Kalantris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DariuszPol Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Also Disappearing Act has a 2 min cooldown. So you are making crap up. Sorry. My mistake :-) I did have long break with TOR so... Anyway, skills I'm talking about. Cloaking screen have 180s cooldown that is bring down to 120s (2m). Sneak that grant total invisibility work every 60s. So I'm not making crap up I was wrong with Cloaking screen only Sneak work for us every 60s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DariuszPol Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 There is one thing about stealth. It does give great advantage, only not in PvP in general, but in warzones. Warzones = tactics. I played one against a team with 5 stealthers. Impossible to play. You have literally no idea where 5/8 of the enemy team is, you can never know how to position your guys and you always fight greater numbers, because the enemy stealths to you. Personally I have nothing against stealthers, I just say that it's ridiculous you can have 5 of them in an 8 man team. There should be limits to that. Regards, Kalantris Then there should be limit to EVERY class. 8 team sorcs are just impossible to bring down. 8 team BH just spam tracer missiles all over the place and are impossible to bring down when they have healer 8 healers just heal themselves and it's impossible to bring them down 8 stealth just move around when you not see them and they are impossible to bring down. I can make more of that crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niddhog Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 My problem with stealth or whatever CDs stealth classes have that drops DOTs/damage whatever, is that the cooldowns are too short. A friend and I were speedering through Ilum doing PVE dailies. We see a red name so we jump on him. He gets down to 25%, stealth! He's gone. 30 seconds later he pops out of stealth and attacks. We get him down to 25%, stealth! He's gone. 30 seconds later he pops out of stealth and attacks. We get him down to 25%, stealth! He's gone. The stealth/cleanse/immunity skill needs about a 4-5 mins CD. It's a good skill to have when it's needed in a pinch, but it won't allow stealthers to be immune to world PVP. I call shennagins! As a shadow my drop combat stealth button is 2 (maybe 3) minutes CD. Dropping stealth doesn't make you immune to dots either (that is a separate skill on a base 1 minute CD), and dots will in fact rip youback out of stealth. Also... All AoE abilities will pop someone out of stealth. As soon as he disappears, pop a targeted AoE in the direction hes most likely to be going. Stealth detection is by default a good enough range- he won't be running to you unless he uses a stealth level increasing CD as well. Most stealthers will run straight forward, or attempt to put LoS between you... go towards a nearby buff/heal item in a WZ. If you are melee as well.... as soon as he pops stealth pop an AoE, etc. Also, to the OP- all stealth classes move slower in stealth, even spec'ed into increased stealth speed its lower than out of stealth. Combined with stealth detection... this means the stealther has to be quick/smart to get off kills. All the time wasted watching people/hunting for loners/setting up their attack is time not spent actively fighting. Its a trade off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svartalfimposter Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Stealth is a dreadful idea from the start. Mythic and now Bioware have repeatedly failed to learn this lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebarian Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 has anyone else been killed by an operative coming out of stealth and stunning you then killing you in less that 5 seconds? Does anyone else think that stealth should only be given to healers to get out of trouble? I am interested in what others think. Perhaps the worst post in Rotworm history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainbow Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Stealth is a dreadful idea from the start. Mythic and now Bioware have repeatedly failed to learn this lesson. And why would that be such a dreadful idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endel Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 So first i see a ridiculous thread about stealthers in Huttball using tactics and now i see a thread where someone is saying stealth is too much of an advantage in PvP. Take stealth away from stealth class and you can as well remove them from the game. Go roll a stealth class, level to 50, go PvP and we will see your stand on this again. Jeez every day this is getting more ridiculous. Soon people will start saying that a healer have too much advantage in pvp because he can heal Where people with such stupid ideas are coming from... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthVarrak Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Soon people will start saying that a healer have too much advantage in pvp because he can heal Hate to tell you man, this has already been said quite a few times. Someone also suggested that Healers healing themselves to keep themselves alive (so that they can heal their team) shouldn't count towards their Total Healing for the WZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rainbow Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Hate to tell you man, this has already been said quite a few times. Someone also suggested that Healers healing themselves to keep themselves alive (so that they can heal their team) shouldn't count towards their Total Healing for the WZ. Then obivously as an operative I am totally screwed... I rely on stealth and can heal myself after / during a fight. Edited February 17, 2012 by rainbow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesmcalli Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I stopped playing my full rakata geared scoundrel and are now lvling a shadow. Cant be arshed to play a class who smacks people with a washcloth. Looking at the majority of classes in this game it shocks me people still choose to cry about the operative/Scoundrel. Its like you have a gunfight and a knifefight and you cry that the scoundrel brought a spoon... Hah, you're leveling a Shadow because you want to hit harder? Prepare to be disappointed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nezis Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Hah, you're leveling a Shadow because you want to hit harder? Prepare to be disappointed... Lol this ^. I love to play my shadow but sometimes I feel like he hits like a pretty pink princess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terimac Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 haaaaaaaahhahaa ZOMG remove stealth ?? First time ever played mmo ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stenrik Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) I have to say I find stealth pretty useless in PVP. I had high hopes, but so many classes have broad AOE attacks and I'm constantly being pulled out of stealth if I'm near "the fray." Once out of stealth, I can't use my best move and become a sitting duck as a melee class with low defense. You could say I should avoid the cluster, but I don't farm kills when there's an objective to worry about. Usually the cluster is around the objective. Also the only way to get close to someone undetected is sneak, which has a 2 min. cooldown. Plus, we're SLOW. There's often no point to using it in Huttball for example, where the whole point is to be able to quickly follow the ball and move around as fast as everyone else. On top of that, being healer specced means that I can only viably use stealth for objectives because there's no special healing move that can be used from stealth. The only way it's good for healing is to stealth as someone's pocket healer to mislead the enemy into thinking they're unprotected. Edited February 17, 2012 by Stenrik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ticoune Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Sneak that grant total invisibility work every 60s. Its not 'perfect' invisibility just so you know, I still get flushed out by targeted attacks even with the +15 stealth level (+18 total with other passive buffs). Stealth detection is largely RNG based, so it can betray you quite often as I've learned. Classes that get passive stealth detection skills have a better chance of noticing you obviously, but even without those talents you can still get noticed by pretty much anyone if RNG goes south on you. Plus, we're SLOW. There's often no point to using it in Huttball for example, where the whole point is to be able to quickly follow the ball and move around as fast as everyone else. As a heal spec, yeah you move slower. If you have the 3 ranks in Infiltration (or its equivilant from other classes) it passively offsets the -15% speed debuff so you move just as fast as a non-stealthed person. Huttball is actually my fav warzone map as of late since its a great map for stalking around unnoticed for ambushing people. *ahem* Now that I've read the last 10 pages of comments and complaints...I have to agree with all the people saying "Have you ever played a stealth class in this game?" Seriously, until you have...you won't understand how quirky stealth can be when it comes to pvp. Speaking as a mostly champ geared concealment Op, stealth is awesome but not a perfect mechanic you can always rely on giving how stealth detection works for other players *points up*. Plus people have learned that Dot'ing a stealther can screw them over massively, so its an extremely rare occurance for me to get into a fight with someone and not have a DoT placed on me right off the start if they have one (force DoT's are the worst -.-) And for the OP...5 seconds? The only time I could drop someone in 5 seconds was pre-nerf when I could 3-shot people if my 3 'big hitters' (Hidden strike, acid blade and backstab) all landed as a crit with a base 85% crit mag and I was still pre-50. Now, after nerfs to my openers and surge, you're looking at more like 8-10 seconds min with optimal conditions to take a squishy out (all crit hits, no bubble up, minimal expertise, etc). Heavy armor targets are a whole other story. 2 points of advice for ya, coming from the hunter's perspective: 1. Stay near your group or at the very least near a second person who can back you up. Solo people are prime targets for ambush predators and you only have yourself to blame if you get facerolled by one of them. Staying near/in a group severely hinders a stealthed attackers chance of dropping you quickly since your team mates will likely notice the sudden appearance of an enemy in their midst and either spam knockbacks to force them away or turn on them since operatives/scoundrels are squishy targets compared to other classes. 2. Know your surroundings. Its not hard to tell a good operative from a bad op since they will make liberal use of terrain to get the drop on you. Rarely do I ever directly charge at one of my targets if they're out in the open (unless their solo), usually I slink around the outskirts to keep from being detected and come up from behind using blocking terrain/cover (or drop down from above in the case of the Huttball arena). Stealth isn't over powered by any means, it all comes down to the skill of the person using it and their opposition. In the right hands, a stealth dps can be an utter nightmare. In the wrong hands...well, they're more like an annoying pest that you get to slap around when you can see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opapanax Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) has anyone else been killed by an operative coming out of stealth and stunning you then killing you in less that 5 seconds? Does anyone else think that stealth should only be given to healers to get out of trouble? I am interested in what others think. *** are you talking about. Giving stealth to healers only and just ignoring the classes that are actually based around stealth. Such as Assassin/Shadows and Operatives/Scoundrels. People are really blind around here and no idea of class design when it comes to RPG's. Some of the nonsense I read just regarding stealth says volumes about the knowledge the playerbase really has. It's not surprising to see infinteen post about absolutely nothing. The post can be a well structured with good grammer. These things do little to make the post any more sensable since the basis of the arguments are so warped... Stealth to healers only.. *********** really dude.. omg Edited February 17, 2012 by Opapanax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opapanax Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) "He popped stealth then came back 30seconds we got him down and he stealthed again. He came out of stealth a second time, got him down and he stealthed a 3rd time.. All within 2mins.. " - Some posted hogwash that I can't find to quote properly. Pure grade A ******** right here people.. Vanishing every 30 seconds is not happening. Why blantanly lie or just bloat the story in such fashion. How can you come on and post that and really expect to be taken seriously. You have no to know your lying as your typing and just pulling **** out of your ***.. Edited February 17, 2012 by Opapanax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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