Neamhan Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I find this scenario tough to believe because in combat vanish is on a 2 minute cooldown for all stealth classes. Actually it's 3 minutes for Shadows, with a talent in Infiltration (out of reach for non-hybrids/non-Infiltrators) that can get it down to 2 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doxxs Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Yes it is..it is bearable if it is a one time thing to open a fight when it gets ridiculous is when you can actually just disappear mid-fight (while in combat) cause things aren't going your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparcrypt Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 OP - please go and level up a stealth class and then see how much of a nerf they need. Playing a stealth class well requires a lot of skill and a lot of situational awareness. My guess is you will level up your stealth class, get destroyed in WZs and declare everything else overpowered. My main is an Inf Shadow and I win games by outthinking the other players more than anything else - I put myself in position for maximum damage, use terrain and timing to great effect. If I don't, I get focused and smashed down to nothing in a very short order. Bad stealthers are extremely easy to find and kill - good stealthers, like any other good player, are extremely effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rykke Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I find that if anything stealth is extremely weak in this game, a lot of ACs can spec in their talents to have improved stealth detection. If you have an AoE you can drop that's ground targeted, it's really easy to yank them out if you have said talents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doxxs Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 OP - please go and level up a stealth class and then see how much of a nerf they need. Playing a stealth class well requires a lot of skill and a lot of situational awareness. My guess is you will level up your stealth class, get destroyed in WZs and declare everything else overpowered. My main is an Inf Shadow and I win games by outthinking the other players more than anything else - I put myself in position for maximum damage, use terrain and timing to great effect. If I don't, I get focused and smashed down to nothing in a very short order. Bad stealthers are extremely easy to find and kill - good stealthers, like any other good player, are extremely effective. I dunno being able to vanish to avoid death seems to take the risk out of risk vs reward ya know..stealth retreat heal up or in a close fight it is a way to get yourself untargeted and repostion..it is a tremendous advantage...don't try to undersell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlashie Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 has anyone else been killed by an operative coming out of stealth and stunning you then killing you in less that 5 seconds? Does anyone else think that stealth should only be given to healers to get out of trouble? I am interested in what others think. Are you kidding me? They nerfed the scoundrel/agent to the ground. Unless you have a significant gear advantage OR level advantage in the 10-49 bracket, a scoundrel/agent hits like a wet nuddle. First you got our main tree nerfed. Then you got surge, our only way to get damage again, nerfed. And now you want to remove our ability to stealth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradigamer Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 For every lonely player on the fringes of a fight that a stealthy slaughters there are seven they can't gear near. For every minute during which a stealthy makes a successful kill there are several minutes of patient creeping around. That may be less true for that one tanky specced Assassin at higher levels, but it's certainly true of everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreedzik Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 All combat hide should be time limitted not for perma imba undetected hide mode.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doxxs Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) For every lonely player on the fringes of a fight that a stealthy slaughters there are seven they can't gear near. For every minute during which a stealthy makes a successful kill there are several minutes of patient creeping around. That may be less true for that one tanky specced Assassin at higher levels, but it's certainly true of everyone else. Thats all good but being able to vanish to escape death...thats a bigger issue than the stealth gank thing.. These games are supposed to be based on risk vs. reward and if you can skirt the risk by simply vanishing and running away...well. Edited February 17, 2012 by Doxxs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradigamer Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Thats all good but being able to vanish to escape death...thats a bigger issue than the stealth gank thing.. It's very annoying when the guy you almost kill vanishes but they don't get away with it that often. As someone already said, it's a two minute cooldown and if they've been dotted their cleanse has to be up, too (I'm assuming all cleanses available to all stealthers have a similar cooldown to the cleanse other classes have, I didn't check to see if any trees had a spammable version). If they're silly enough to be in the middle of a fray with multiple people who know they tend to vanish when nearly dead they just get stunned and slaughtered right as they're about to pull a Houdini. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarylMusashi Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Stealth has always been a huge advantage in PvP games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riulassher Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I don't really like the whole concept of stealth class. It's just too gimmicky and usually highly irritating game element. GW Assasin's Shadow steps ftw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doxxs Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 It's very annoying when the guy you almost kill vanishes but they don't get away with it that often. As someone already said, it's a two minute cooldown and if they've been dotted their cleanse has to be up, too (I'm assuming all cleanses available to all stealthers have a similar cooldown to the cleanse other classes have, I didn't check to see if any trees had a spammable version). If they're silly enough to be in the middle of a fray with multiple people who know they tend to vanish when nearly dead they just get stunned and slaughtered right as they're about to pull a Houdini. Yeah all the same though I think combat should disable stealth..this is a common model used in many other games. It is too much of an advantage to stealth away from a bad outcome...you are not really shouldering true risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kweassa Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Stealth has always been a huge advantage in PvP games. Yep...and preparing yourself for that exact situation, also, has always been a standard for judging whether a player is generally competent or not in PvP. After a few years(a decade, in my case) or so in playing PvP, people more or less begin to understand what to expect from rogues/assasins/stalkers and their ilk, and how to deal with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migrayn Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 has anyone else been killed by an operative coming out of stealth and stunning you then killing you in less that 5 seconds? Does anyone else think that stealth should only be given to healers to get out of trouble? I am interested in what others think. Your too late. They already nerfed the crap out of OP's and scoundrels. Its time for the nerf merc's and sorcs threads. Im sorry your internet is slow and you missed the train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexiekaboom Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 First people complained about operatives killing them and got their dam nerfed. Now people don't die to an operative in 3 straight fights despite threads about operatives still being too OP and yet someone still complains that they couldn't kill the operative. So i get it. Not only should operatives NOT be able to kill someone, but they should ALWAYS die when attacked. /eyeroll This "I'm beating on this guy OVER AND OVER. I mean, dude keeps attacking me and I KEEP OWNING HIM. He uses all these cool downs on me and I'm like whatever, and dude needs to run away because he can't kill me. Nerf that guy" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenzyguy Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) has anyone else been killed by an operative coming out of stealth and stunning you then killing you in less that 5 seconds? Does anyone else think that stealth should only be given to healers to get out of trouble? I am interested in what others think. I think ...this is a troll srly...no (ven full BM geared) Operatives/scoundrel/assasin/shadow can kill you in a 5 secodn stunlock atm srly get better ......A LOT BETTER by like 1000 miles. AMd play a medecine Ops you can cloak screen AND heal Edited February 17, 2012 by Frenzyguy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenzyguy Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 "The one thing I don't like about stealth is I can never tab+target to a stealther I've spotted fast enough to break them out before they disappear again. But that's the game's horrible targeting system rather than the stealth mechanic at fault. " I agree with this. They should be tab targetted if detected. I also think Vanish should be on a longer timer or have some countermeasures (other than CC). Yes with your castign auto follow target ezmode no ty . (sorc and tracetard spammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cstain Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 has anyone else been killed by an operative coming out of stealth and stunning you then killing you in less that 5 seconds? Does anyone else think that stealth should only be given to healers to get out of trouble? I am interested in what others think. Before posting this I would recommend you play this class to 50 and then you will understand why they have to have stealth. Their whole spec relies on it. As someone who plays this class and others I hate playing the OP the most because you have to rely on the stealth to live. So if you take it away you will break the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenzyguy Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 It isn't stealth: Stun lasts too long Stun duration needs to be shortened. Are you ****ign kidding me.....no ops can kill a target except its a fresh fifty being jumped on by a champ/Bm geared ops/scrap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenzyguy Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 Lrn2DoT. Seriously. Nothing drives me more mad than healing for someone who got hit by a Conc Ops or Assassin, who doesn't bother to DoT and lets them get away. ONE DOT solves this problem. ONE. whats funny is Ops vs Ops its basicly who stun the first....even if you dot the other ops....toxic scan remove it EVERYTIME. so its really easy to slip aways from our own class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zlashie Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 I stopped playing my full rakata geared scoundrel and are now lvling a shadow. Cant be arshed to play a class who smacks people with a washcloth. Looking at the majority of classes in this game it shocks me people still choose to cry about the operative/Scoundrel. Its like you have a gunfight and a knifefight and you cry that the scoundrel brought a spoon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reveillere Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 How about lightning cage that mez you for 6-8 seconds and ends in a 2 sec stun? Breaks on damage ^.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haralin Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 My problem with stealth or whatever CDs stealth classes have that drops DOTs/damage whatever, is that the cooldowns are too short. A friend and I were speedering through Ilum doing PVE dailies. We see a red name so we jump on him. He gets down to 25%, stealth! He's gone. 30 seconds later he pops out of stealth and attacks. We get him down to 25%, stealth! He's gone. 30 seconds later he pops out of stealth and attacks. We get him down to 25%, stealth! He's gone. The stealth/cleanse/immunity skill needs about a 4-5 mins CD. It's a good skill to have when it's needed in a pinch, but it won't allow stealthers to be immune to world PVP. This is a lie! Vanish has a 2 Min Cooldown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistrfantasy Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 If you look @ a game like Tera, they've done away with stealth entirely because it was too difficult to balance. Stealth IS a significant advantage in PVP. Just look @ rogues + druids in WOW. For the longest time they had the highest representation in Arenas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts