Stealth is too much an advantage in PvP

[telmeoneagain]

has anyone else been killed by an operative coming out of stealth and stunning you then killing you in less that 5 seconds? Does anyone else think that stealth should only be given to healers to get out of trouble?

 

I am interested in what others think.

[Valsdad]

has anyone else been killed by an operative coming out of stealth and stunning you then killing you in less that 5 seconds? Does anyone else think that stealth should only be given to healers to get out of trouble?

 

I am interested in what others think.

 

I'm going to use my magical sense of perception and say this poster has a Sage main.

[Sheyrd]

No on all counts, for one a player that killed you from stealth has some very good skill and they know what they are doing. Also they are some of the slowest players in the game because they do not have a jump ability or a force speed etc etc as most other classes have. This means they have to work thier ***'s off to get to you without being spotted and that is no easy feat.

 

What I recommend is either change how you play if you are getting killed from stealth you have been singled out because you were not in a group of players that will help terminate the op or smuggler.

 

Next if you are by yourself you will need to know what it takes to overcome that. Most classes in this game have the ability to kill one another just finding what works happens with experience.

[seekerofpower]

has anyone else been killed by an operative coming out of stealth and stunning you then killing you in less that 5 seconds? Does anyone else think that stealth should only be given to healers to get out of trouble?

 

I am interested in what others think.

 

This is a terrible idea and would render certain classes useless.

[Cleptx]

has anyone else been killed by an operative coming out of stealth and stunning you then killing you in less that 5 seconds? Does anyone else think that stealth should only be given to healers to get out of trouble?

 

I am interested in what others think.

 

I think healers having stealth makes no sense at all.

 

I think you have never played a Stealth class and have no idea how difficult it is.

 

I also think you never played DAOC

[Vodrin]

Umm..... no. As a poster said above, one spec each for the op/smuggler, and sin/shadow are entirely built around stealth. Removing this would mean completely restructuring and re-balancing those trees. No a good idea.

 

Also, healers currently are hard to kill enough, giving them access to stealth would really make them a pain in the rear, and would definitely imbalance them. So I find nothing in your ideas to be good.

[CogitoErgo]

My problem with stealth or whatever CDs stealth classes have that drops DOTs/damage whatever, is that the cooldowns are too short.

 

A friend and I were speedering through Ilum doing PVE dailies. We see a red name so we jump on him. He gets down to 25%, stealth! He's gone.

 

30 seconds later he pops out of stealth and attacks. We get him down to 25%, stealth! He's gone.

 

30 seconds later he pops out of stealth and attacks. We get him down to 25%, stealth! He's gone.

 

The stealth/cleanse/immunity skill needs about a 4-5 mins CD. It's a good skill to have when it's needed in a pinch, but it won't allow stealthers to be immune to world PVP.

[Xaearth]

I agree, my Assassin could use more self-healing.

 

In fact, let's just get rid of the Sorc entirely and roll those healing abilities into the Assassin.

 

Delete the lightning, that **** is for lamers like Palpatine anyways.

[Vodrin]

My problem with stealth or whatever CDs stealth classes have that drops DOTs/damage whatever, is that the cooldowns are too short.

 

A friend and I were speedering through Ilum doing PVE dailies. We see a red name so we jump on him. He gets down to 25%, stealth! He's gone.

 

30 seconds later he pops out of stealth and attacks. We get him down to 25%, stealth! He's gone.

 

30 seconds later he pops out of stealth and attacks. We get him down to 25%, stealth! He's gone.

 

The stealth/cleanse/immunity skill needs about a 4-5 mins CD. It's a good skill to have when it's needed in a pinch, but it won't allow stealthers to be immune to world PVP.

 

I find this scenario tough to believe because in combat vanish is on a 2 minute cooldown for all stealth classes.

[Xaearth]

My problem with stealth or whatever CDs stealth classes have that drops DOTs/damage whatever, is that the cooldowns are too short.

 

A friend and I were speedering through Ilum doing PVE dailies. We see a red name so we jump on him. He gets down to 25%, stealth! He's gone.

 

30 seconds later he pops out of stealth and attacks. We get him down to 25%, stealth! He's gone.

 

30 seconds later he pops out of stealth and attacks. We get him down to 25%, stealth! He's gone.

 

The stealth/cleanse/immunity skill needs about a 4-5 mins CD. It's a good skill to have when it's needed in a pinch, but it won't allow stealthers to be immune to world PVP.

 

Either your internal clock is off or your copy-pasta is trigger happy.

 

It has a 2min cooldown with the talents that reduce it.

 

2 minutes is a lifetime for classes that require stealth to either trigger their best abilities (Concealment Operative) or to have enough resource regen to keep up their sustained damage (Assassin).

[Jarvus]

Stealth classes have a big advantage in terms of strategic options which are often made up for in some games by nerfing them in other areas, lack of heals, etc.

 

But a stealth class already gains a major advantage by choosing if, when and where to strike. Once a guy pops out of stealth and decides to attack, there should be consequences. There should not be any way to restealth until combat is broken naturally. DoT cure is fine, but there shouldn't be an ability to restealth basically immediately, or what everyone is referring to as "in combat"

[Epicrisis]

I do not believe stealth is overpowered. I actually feel like it doesn't add much benefit, besides the element of surprise on a lightly guarded objective.

 

Stealth is a tactic just like any other. You have options to get around it or minimize its effectiveness against you:

 

- Put you back to the wall

- Stand in places that limits the routes stealth players can take

- Constantly move

- Move your camera around while you're moving

- Don't keep your back facing the same direction all the time, i.e. zig-zag and swing your camera around. Move in erratic patterns (use the mouse!)

- Know when to use your CC breaker

- Start defending yourself at first then retaliate when they've lost the advantage.

- Never give your back to a Shadow/Assassin. Always use your mouse to point your character at them as they try to circle you.

 

If they kill you before you break free, then they deserve the kill. Perhaps there were two of them, or you gave them prime opportunities, or they're just really skilled. Once you've gotten some level 50 Expertise gear, its very hard for them to kill you in the 4 seconds they have you stunned.

 

The one thing I don't like about stealth is I can never tab+target to a stealther I've spotted fast enough to break them out before they disappear again. But that's the game's horrible targeting system rather than the stealth mechanic at fault.

[Seurot]

My problem with stealth or whatever CDs stealth classes have that drops DOTs/damage whatever, is that the cooldowns are too short.

 

A friend and I were speedering through Ilum doing PVE dailies. We see a red name so we jump on him. He gets down to 25%, stealth! He's gone.

 

30 seconds later he pops out of stealth and attacks. We get him down to 25%, stealth! He's gone.

 

30 seconds later he pops out of stealth and attacks. We get him down to 25%, stealth! He's gone.

 

The stealth/cleanse/immunity skill needs about a 4-5 mins CD. It's a good skill to have when it's needed in a pinch, but it won't allow stealthers to be immune to world PVP.

 

First people complained about operatives killing them and got their dam nerfed.

 

Now people don't die to an operative in 3 straight fights despite threads about operatives still being too OP and yet someone still complains that they couldn't kill the operative.

 

So i get it. Not only should operatives NOT be able to kill someone, but they should ALWAYS die when attacked.

 

/eyeroll

Edited February 16, 2012 by Seurot

[Cleptx]

"The one thing I don't like about stealth is I can never tab+target to a stealther I've spotted fast enough to break them out before they disappear again. But that's the game's horrible targeting system rather than the stealth mechanic at fault. "

 

 

I agree with this. They should be tab targetted if detected.

 

I also think Vanish should be on a longer timer or have some countermeasures (other than CC).

[CogitoErgo]

I'm not even worried about dying to them. As a Merc healer, I really have nothing to fear. I can heal through any damage they can sustain on me. My problem is that in combat stealth makes those classes immune to world PVP. They get to strike first, I heal through it, I take the upper hand and start beating them down, only to have them combat stealth and get away.

 

If they get to choose when to start the fight, they shouldn't also get to choose when to end the fight.

[Roak]

I'm having a sun tzu quoting day:

 

If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles.

Sun Tzu

 

aka: l2p

[Xaearth]

Stealth classes have a big advantage in terms of strategic options which are often made up for in some games by nerfing them in other areas, lack of heals, etc.

 

But a stealth class already gains a major advantage by choosing if, when and where to strike. Once a guy pops out of stealth and decides to attack, there should be consequences. There should not be any way to restealth until combat is broken naturally. DoT cure is fine, but there shouldn't be an ability to restealth basically immediately, or what everyone is referring to as "in combat"

 

Take away in-combat stealth and you might as well remove the stealth classes from the game.

 

"Combat" is too damn persistent for any class that relies on stealth to reliably be able to get back into stealth short of dying.

 

Hell, often enough just using your group buff will lock you into combat until everyone is dead.

[MrDeas]

Stealth is a very difficult skill to manage well. You need to be careful about which fights you pick if you're going to get back into stealth in that life. The only way stealth chars will be able to get up to you without an indicator popping up (not a target just a flash of someone) is if their primary stat is high. If you aren't noticing them you need to invest in your primary stat more. When you do get the flash, best defence is a good offence and just throw a non-targetted AoE, if they're around you they'll lose their stealth and advantage. The best way to counter a stealth player is to have played on and know how they move around areas.

 

What you're forgetting is the utilities that other classes have, such as pulling an enemy, force leaping to them (which can be used in Huttball to get out of danger by swapping levels).

 

That being said, stealth do own at the one man defence on Alderaan WZ. As no-one can be seen near the node, normally people won't bother with a proper attack and just wander over to cap the node. I had someone doing this the other day 6 times in a row. She's just run up and attempted to cap the node. At which point it was the usual backstab, shiv etc. You could say this makes stealth OP but to be fair, she was stupid enough to do this 6 times and not think to bring someone else. You might also say that as stealth is OP because of its use in peripheral defence and attack. But the classes aren't so good at attacking head on anyway.

 

To respond more directly to the OP, as an Op that is currently specced to heal. I virtually never use stealth in this spec because I have no use for it. A healer survives because others are paying attention to him, not because from being able to get away. Giving healers a stealth ability (I realise that Op has the slip away ability but that's not as useful when not specced into the buffs for it) would mean they are OP because they can stealth away, heal up within 15 secs and then start healing their team again.

[Reveillere]

are you *********** kidding me ? lol

 

and it seems like stealth is the least of ur problem if u died in 5 seconds

[Metalmac]

My problem with stealth or whatever CDs stealth classes have that drops DOTs/damage whatever, is that the cooldowns are too short.

 

A friend and I were speedering through Ilum doing PVE dailies. We see a red name so we jump on him. He gets down to 25%, stealth! He's gone.

 

30 seconds later he pops out of stealth and attacks. We get him down to 25%, stealth! He's gone.

 

30 seconds later he pops out of stealth and attacks. We get him down to 25%, stealth! He's gone.

 

The stealth/cleanse/immunity skill needs about a 4-5 mins CD. It's a good skill to have when it's needed in a pinch, but it won't allow stealthers to be immune to world PVP.

 

Well being a Scrapper that would have to be a lie. Our Disappearing Act has the shortest cooldown with all the points for talents a a 2 minute cooldown so you are either full of crap or you have a lousy sense of time.

 

Overall Stealth in this game is REALLY BROKEN. Elites see me at 80 meters while rest of party is 40 meters away and not seen.

 

Or in PVP so many things knock me out of Stealth is it very hard to ever get back into Stealth with dying or using Disappearing Act on cooldown.

 

Like I said Stealth is broken.

[Anatlos]

No on all counts, for one a player that killed you from stealth has some very good skill and they know what they are doing. Also they are some of the slowest players in the game because they do not have a jump ability or a force speed etc etc as most other classes have. This means they have to work thier ***'s off to get to you without being spotted and that is no easy feat.

 

What I recommend is either change how you play if you are getting killed from stealth you have been singled out because you were not in a group of players that will help terminate the op or smuggler.

 

Next if you are by yourself you will need to know what it takes to overcome that. Most classes in this game have the ability to kill one another just finding what works happens with experience.

 

/agree.

 

I think that pre-nerf Ops were a little too easy to do this with. The fact that it's still possible with a little skill makes me happy, as they're not completely useless but also not ZOMGNUKE for a beginner who just spams 2 buttons.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Anatlos

[CogitoErgo]

Take away in-combat stealth and you might as well remove the stealth classes from the game.

 

One can dream can't he?

[Metalmac]

I'm not even worried about dying to them. As a Merc healer, I really have nothing to fear. I can heal through any damage they can sustain on me. My problem is that in combat stealth makes those classes immune to world PVP. They get to strike first, I heal through it, I take the upper hand and start beating them down, only to have them combat stealth and get away.

 

If they get to choose when to start the fight, they shouldn't also get to choose when to end the fight.

 

WE HAVE NO CHARGE OR WAY TO SPEED UP AND GET AWAY!!!!!

 

Once we are out of Stealth we are a target and easy to lock down and most DoTs kill us or keep us out of Stealth, just learn to play. Once you lock me down in place I am useless.

[Seurot]

 

I also think Vanish should be on a longer timer or have some countermeasures (other than CC).

if you played operative as a main, you would understand why you can't mess with that escape mechanism.

 

if youvstart taking that away or increasing the CD, the class really needs a complete overhaul cause they are very squishy.

 

why do you think it is a class known for cherry picking its fights most of the time. the class cannot do longer fights like a lot of other classes. You really need to hit and run. try and get the kill fast or you pretty much have to run. an operative that stays out of stealth for too long is a dead operative.

[AetherMcLoud]

has anyone else been killed by an operative coming out of stealth and stunning you then killing you in less that 5 seconds? Does anyone else think that stealth should only be given to healers to get out of trouble?

 

I am interested in what others think.

 

No, because I have pvp gear and Ops were nerfed EXTREMLY with 1.1.