How to fix BM bags RNG in 3 really simple steps.

[Organikal]

lol wut???

 

Agree or disagree... BM gear (highest available gear level) is way to easy to obtain

[Yutaa]

No that's not my point... no no no

 

The point is that providing a 1 per day will be worse for the game. There is no excitement in knowing you'll get 1 per day, there is no thrill of getting the gear when I could sit down and know what time, what day, what minute I'll get my new shiney.

 

This game and too many others like it are gear driven and it's player base are a bunch of babies. Don't you wish you actually had to accomplish something to get your gear? Getting Valor rank 60 is NOT accomplishing anything.

 

I hope the next tier of gear requires skill, winning, and accomplishment to achieve. As much as everyone hates to admit it rated warzones or arena type games are the only true way to provide "epic" gear where you actually have to reach a level of rating that the majority of players have to work for weeks/months for.

 

TL:DR -> gamer nerds like to grow their epeen which is why people are leaving this game. There is no way to separate a very good player from a 1-2 hour a day casual in its current form.

 

Hm..worse for a game? What can really be worse for a game than this endless stream of QQrs in forums?

 

How many "BW your RNG system is awesome best design desision ever" threads have you seen? Zero...(sure you can always go and create one...then it will be 1).

 

How many "BW your RGN system is @#%@#$%^#$" threads? Like half of forum.

 

This is what I propose to fix.

 

I totally agree that better skill should mean better gear progression. This probably will happen after 1.2.

 

But now gear progression is based on time and luck only. And my proposal is all about eliminating the factor of luck while keeping gear earning rate the same.

[LanceUpercutt]

Agree or disagree... BM gear (highest available gear level) is way to easy to obtain

 

i also disagree with giving away bm gear, its a good thing they dont give it away

 

how easy it is to obtain isn't what he was talking about, he is saying the effort to get bm gear should be the same for everyone

[Organikal]

i also disagree with giving away bm gear, its a good thing they dont give it away

 

how easy it is to obtain isn't what he was talking about, he is saying the effort to get bm gear should be the same for everyone

 

So we agree that BM gear is too easy to get, while the system isn't ideal the solution is not a linear progression to a full BM set. EVER

[LanceUpercutt]

So we agree that BM gear is too easy to get, while the system isn't ideal the solution is not a linear progression to a full BM set. EVER

 

what do you suggest?

[Kunari]

Step 1. Multipy the cost of each BM item by 4.

Step 2. Multiply the number of tokens players have by 4.

Step 3. Put 1 token in each BM bag.

 

 

Before: You need 20 tokens to get full BM. You get 1 token from 4 bags average.

So you need 80 bags average to get full BM.

 

 

After: You need 80 yokens to get full BM. You get 4 tokens from 4 bags.

So you need 80 bags to get full BM.

 

 

Pro: No RNG.

Cons: no more those funny rage threads on forum?

 

 

Sounds good and keep progression pretty much the same.

[Yutaa]

So we agree that BM gear is too easy to get, while the system isn't ideal the solution is not a linear progression to a full BM set. EVER

 

So you agree that getting BM gear is easy.

 

And the answer is...add "luck" and make it frustrating for some players while making it even more easy for others? You do understand that while there are players that get 2 tokens in 40 bags there are players that get 20 tokens in 30 bags?

[Organikal]

what do you suggest?

 

Anything but linear. Make it based off achievements... anything.

 

"Earn the main hand by: Killing 20,000 players in Warzones after valor rank 60"

"Earn the Chest Piece by: Doing 62,900,000 damage to ball carriers in Huttball or healing a friendly bal lcarrier for 62,900,000"

 

Anything that makes the player earn their stripes while not simply forcing wins in warzones to get a chance for your purple.

 

This theory might also help the WZ quitters. Of course this would also require the ability to queue into specific warzones.

[LanceUpercutt]

Anything but linear. Make it based off achievements... anything.

 

"Earn the main hand by: Killing 20,000 players in Warzones after valor rank 60"

"Earn the Chest Piece by: Doing 62,900,000 damage to ball carriers in Huttball or healing a friendly bal lcarrier for 62,900,000"

 

Anything that makes the player earn their stripes while not simply forcing wins in warzones to get a chance for your purple.

 

This theory might also help the WZ quitters. Of course this would also require the ability to queue into specific warzones.

 

sounds fair to me, im just sick of playing and being in the same spot i was 3 weeks ago

[Bigdrunk]

Anything but linear. Make it based off achievements... anything.

 

"Earn the main hand by: Killing 20,000 players in Warzones after valor rank 60"

"Earn the Chest Piece by: Doing 62,900,000 damage to ball carriers in Huttball or healing a friendly bal lcarrier for 62,900,000"

 

Anything that makes the player earn their stripes while not simply forcing wins in warzones to get a chance for your purple.

 

This theory might also help the WZ quitters. Of course this would also require the ability to queue into specific warzones.

 

This I like, everyone else stop complaining.

[PantsOn]

Earn your purples... end of thread.

 

All the cry babies didn't play vanilla wow when having 1 PURPLE in the trade district made you a god.

 

I wish games went back to that when gear was incredibly difficult to come by.

 

Yeah. I *********** laugh at these kids. Remember the insane grind it took to get GM gear? You literally had to play 16 hours per day for a week to get the title. Only 1 person per week could achieve it. Seeing people completely decked out in Champ gear 2 weeks into the release, literally, made me LOL.

[Yutaa]

Anything but linear. Make it based off achievements... anything.

 

"Earn the main hand by: Killing 20,000 players in Warzones after valor rank 60"

"Earn the Chest Piece by: Doing 62,900,000 damage to ball carriers in Huttball or healing a friendly bal lcarrier for 62,900,000"

 

Anything that makes the player earn their stripes while not simply forcing wins in warzones to get a chance for your purple.

 

This theory might also help the WZ quitters. Of course this would also require the ability to queue into specific warzones.

 

So...

It will take your 2 months to kill 20.000 player.

It will also take 2 month to "do 62,900,000 damage to ball carriers".

At the same time it will also takes 2 months to "get 1243524 defend medals" and so on.

 

So after those 2 months you wil get mainhand _and_ chest _and_ something else at the same day (more or less).

 

How is this better then linear??

[Organikal]

Yeah. I *********** laugh at these kids. Remember the insane grind it took to get GM gear? You literally had to play 16 hours per day for a week to get the title. Only 1 person per week could achieve it. Seeing people completely decked out in Champ gear 2 weeks into the release, literally, made me LOL.

 

While it was just an example and I would hate to see this type of grind in any game it proves a point. You earn your gear.

 

The misconception that casuals and "hardcore" players should not have a gear gap is insane. If you play the game for 16 hours a day you damn well better have a small advantage (player skill should be able to bridge the gap and overcome it)

[Organikal]

So...

It will take your 2 months to kill 20.000 player.

It will also take 2 month to "do 62,900,000 damage to ball carriers".

At the same time it will also takes 2 months to "get 1243524 defend medals" and so on.

 

So after those 2 months you wil get mainhand _and_ chest _and_ something else at the same day (more or less).

 

How is this better then linear??

 

My point wasn't the actual numbers it was the theory. It would be designed where some would be easier then others. AKA earn 200 medals in the Voidstar to earnt he Bracers, score the ball 10 times in Huttball for the Earpiece etc...

 

This wouldn't make it linear because you could never predict when you would get your gear, yet you would have a goal and reward for meeting it.

 

EDIT: as it stands right now BM's always go for the MH first... my opinion is that it should be the most difficult to earn and should have an achievement or task. With my idea the MH would have the steepest climb. If by chance you earn 2 pieces in one day there is your "chance" or randomness in which you earn your numbers

Edited February 16, 2012 by Organikal

[Audenlol]

what do you suggest?

 

Probably nothing since the kid had good RNG and would hate to see others obtain the "precious" bm gear his luck has worked so hard for him to get.

 

I can relate tho. I had great luck with champ bags resulting in full champ (minus offhand) by r50. When they announced the change, even tho I knew it was a great change.. I was still a bit miffed that from here on out they would not suffer thru the 3 centurion com bags.............

 

Unlike the kid I quoted, I have the maturity to realize that the system in place now is stupid.

 

 

 

Rng is stupid.

[Organikal]

Probably nothing since the kid had good RNG and would hate to see others obtain the "precious" bm gear his luck has worked so hard for him to get.

 

I can relate tho. I had great luck with champ bags resulting in full champ (minus offhand) by r50. When they announced the change, even tho I knew it was a great change.. I was still a bit miffed that from here on out they would not suffer thru the 3 centurion com bags.............

 

Unlike the kid I quoted, I have the maturity to realize that the system in place now is stupid.

 

 

 

Rng is stupid.

 

I hit BM 3 days ago and I'm 1 for 8. This is a thread about improving the system not boasting about numbers. Maybe I'll get 2 tomorrow but that doesn't change the fact that the system could be improved (which is drastically different than saying it's broken)

[Yutaa]

My point wasn't the actual numbers it was the theory. It would be designed where some would be easier then others. AKA earn 200 medals in the Voidstar to earnt he Bracers, score the ball 10 times in Huttball for the Earpiece etc...

 

 

Ok I see. Though I totally agree with "gear should be result of efforts, not time spend" idea I can't say that I agree with this "not linear" statement. Sounds interesting.

 

But...

 

One step at a time. Right now gear progression is based on time and RNG only.

First step - remove RGN factor, this is frustration. 100500 QQ threads a day...

 

Then lets think about changing "time based progression" into "effort/skill based progression".

[Organikal]

Ok I see. Though I totally agree with "gear should be result of efforts, not time spend" idea I can't say that I agree with this "not linear" statement. Sounds interesting.

 

But...

 

One step at a time. Right now gear progression is based on time and RNG only.

First step - remove RGN factor, this is frustration. 100500 QQ threads a day...

 

Then lets think about changing "time based progression" into "effort/skill based progression".

 

I agree. Although the system that I was suggesting still will include a time commitment it will offer gratification in the sense that someone can look back after a 2hour WZ session and say "I made up 24% of my progress today for my gloves and I'm only a handful of good WZ days from moving on to my next piece I want" rather than well better luck tomorrow with my RNG.

[Rehneu]

What's a yoken?

[rbguy]

To the people that say it's just statistics deal with it and stop complaining I have this to say....

 

We're not complaining the statistics are wrong and if I got 2/20 which is 10% then that's perfectly valid. However it's also statistically possible that some person could go 5 years playing 3 hours a day an not get anything. How can you say it's perfectly valid for a person that does one 10 minute warzone to get rewarded beyond a person that plays 5 years.

Yes these are extreme examples of course, but not that extreme and it's statistically 100% possible.

 

I am sure the rate is 25% but with that 25% your saying a select few will have a horrible time BM gear wise and that's perfectly acceptable. It may not matter to those in the middle of the statistic but it matters to those at the very bottom when they pay the same $15/month and put in as much or more time as others.

 

I remember hearing a story of a young girl walking on a beach with her father and there were thousands of starfish hopelessly stranded on the sand. The young girl went up to one of the starfish and put it back in the ocean to which the father said 'Why even bother? There are thousands of starfish and it won't make a difference'. To which the young girl replied 'It makes a difference to this one'.

 

The point is yes a vast majority will see the 25% but somewhere out there one person will likely be the 0/100 bags guy and a change to this system will matter to him(or her).

[Choffware]

My point wasn't the actual numbers it was the theory. It would be designed where some would be easier then others. AKA earn 200 medals in the Voidstar to earnt he Bracers, score the ball 10 times in Huttball for the Earpiece etc...

 

This wouldn't make it linear because you could never predict when you would get your gear, yet you would have a goal and reward for meeting it.

 

EDIT: as it stands right now BM's always go for the MH first... my opinion is that it should be the most difficult to earn and should have an achievement or task. With my idea the MH would have the steepest climb

 

I like the idea of progression by achievements in pvp, except that the achievements need to be slated with warzone objectives or the games themselves would become meaningless. Right now there are people ignoring the match and grinding kills to get more commendations.

 

But you do realize linear just means there is a clear path to goals. Gear available in the game should only be a factor of what I do and not other players(except the actual fighting itself). That's why I hated the old GM system and then the arena system in WOW. The GM system forced you to play more than everyone else on your server and the arena system forced you to pick 1 of four classes that were balanced around death match... False barriers.

 

I think pvp needs to have a level playing field in order for it to reach it's full potential. Having gear based pvp is just a broken design. I would like the progression to be based on valor level. As you go up in valor your pvp (or take pvp stats out and this just effects base stats during pvp) stats slightly increase. This way they could bracket pvp matches and evenly skilled players could compete. Earning valor could be enhanced by achievements. This way everyone could progress at some default rate, skilled players would progress a little faster, and skill players with lots of time could progress faster yet. But alts and new players coming into the game are not going to get locked out of pvp simply because of a gear gap.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Choffware

[Yutaa]

I agree. Although the system that I was suggesting still will include a time commitment it will offer gratification in the sense that someone can look back after a 2hour WZ session and say "I made up 24% of my progress today for my gloves and I'm only a handful of good WZ days from moving on to my next piece I want" rather than well better luck tomorrow with my RNG.

 

As I said I will only welcome such changes. I also have few ideas...but.

 

Until BW removes RNG players will complain about RNG. Again and again, because it hurts.

And the fact that "win 3 WZ kill 30 ppl at Lolum repeat 7 days" system is stupid will be covered by that huge huge frustration with RNG.

 

So fix RNG - this will uncover other problems.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Yutaa

[Organikal]

I like the idea of progression by achievements in pvp, except that the achievements need to be slated with warzone objectives or the games themselves would become meaningless. Right now there are people ignoring the match and grinding kills to get more commendations.

 

 

I agree, leaving one of the achievements as a pure "Win 400 Warzones while adding a sub counter of at least 100 of each" might keep the game objective a priority.

 

The way they are set up would promote the game result indirectly anyhow seeing as killing the huttball carrier, healing the huttball carrier, defusing x number of bombs, etc... have direct implications on the final score.

[Macroecon]

Step 1. Multipy the cost of each BM item by 4.

Step 2. Multiply the number of tokens players have by 4.

Step 3. Put 1 token in each BM bag.

 

It's so simple, but whomever designed the BM bag system doesn't understand some basic statistics. Right now I am 0 for my last 24 BM bags. The odds of that happening are (.75)^24 = .001003 or almost 1 in a thousand. The problem is that amongst the SWTOR subscriber base, there are probably 20,000 people trying to grind BM bags. So simply numerically you are going to have 20 or so people frustrated out of their mind. This is what happens when you apply large base numbers (subscribers) to what seem to be low probability events.

 

Now you might say, "ah, it's only 20 people out of 20,000". But Bioware would absolutely take actions if there was a game mechanic that someone used to grief 20 of its subscribers. It would at least ban the griefer. Well, the BM bag designer just griefed 20 people and given the population base's eventual move to lev 50, it going to grief hundreds more. Are you going to ban the BM bag designer? Can you at least see the error in your ways?

 

At the very minimum you need to double the BM gear price, and move the BM comm probability to 50%. If the BM bag designer had some knowledge of statistics and the standard deviation of binomial random variables, he would have seen this coming.

[wtfnonamefree]

Even though this is the umpteenth post presenting the same idea - it doesn't lose its beauty.^^

 

And I had luck with champ before the patch and am at something like 5/20 now, so not even screwed.

Edited February 16, 2012 by wtfnonamefree