Tierce Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 See, this is the thing about this idea of giving a punishment to WZ quitters. I'll put aside the whole argument that everyone should have the right to play how they want to play and that if everybody can leave at will, then nobody is punished when people leave because everybody else can leave too. I'll put aside the argument that now you are going to be stuck playing in games where the other team exploits and you have no chance to win. I'll put aside the argument that now when you get UI bugged, crash out, or get forced out of the Warzone some way through no fault or choice of your own, you are going to get punished. Forget all those arguments for now. Players that want to leave a Warzone, but are forced to stay due to the penalty, they are just going to not try. Worse, they are going to sandbag their own team if it will expedite the end of the game by the other team winning. They are going to throw the ball to the other team. They are going to leave nodes undefended. They are going to friendly yank you into the fire/acid. They are going to watch the other team bomb the door and do nothing. They are going to just try to get kills fighting on the sides or in between nodes if they aren't the type to enjoy griefing their own team (and trust me, lots of people will do this, especially since they are introducing cross-server Warzones that will give people total anonymity). You can't make people do what they don't want to do. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. There is already a penalty for leaving warzones early, and that is not getting your valor, commendations, XP, or credits. Aligning the Dailies with this is the right thing to do, so that people do not have much to gain by leaving a Warzone and have more to gain by staying in it even if it is a loss. Penalizing people with a deserter debuff or any kind of lockout is only going to cause different, and much greater pains to the players who want to stay in and compete. I would much rather let someone leave and get a new player who might want to help the team, than make that first person stay and be stuck with a wasted spot, or worse, essentially giving the other team a 9th player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardya Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) If people are that pathetic, there is nothing to be done. It's one thing to screw over your teammates because you only want to play in a perfect match. (The WZ I want, not with bads, not against BM, not against premades etc etc etc) Now you are saying the quitters are going to actively ruin games because they cant passively ruin them. Hopefully the selfish who cant deal with being on a losing team or in their preferred WZ will quit the game. Edited February 16, 2012 by richardya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthMaulUK Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Other MMOs seem to cope fine with a warzone cool down for quitters. What makes SWTOR different? The problem is, this has become the 'norm' thus creating the issue of players waiting 5 mins + to join a wz match, only to find that its either a) about to end b) the team is losing c) both Both issues are created by people quitting. If you are a quitter, they should be given a penatly. However, much like the crappy ranking systems that plagued high level pvp in Rift, having so many types of armour commendations is creating an unbalanced playing field. So an idea to bring in brackets for lvl 50s may help, amongst other things Before Bioware do bring in any such penalty, they really need to fix their mess first Edited February 16, 2012 by DarthMaulUK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDProletariat Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Your argument hinges on the assumption that you already know what sort of punishment they will implement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedEnsign Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 You can't make these people understand logic. They either get it or they don't. People leaving are not causing them to lose. When some one leaves, you get a replacement. After 1.2, they will be playing a man or more down. That is fact and they will have no choice but to accept it. If these people spent as much energy trying to improve their own lives as they spend trying to force other paying customers to play by their rules in a video game that means nothing in RL, these forums would be literally dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirialol Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) if they want to add leaver punishment they should FIRST 1. fix the damn bugs that makes you dc randomly to char screen, get knocked down and cant get up and forces u to desert, falling through the map in huttball, etc. 2. allow you to PICK which warzone you want to queue like in wow, rather than all this random wz BS. (i'm not playing any damn huttballs) 3. allow you to filter out the people in your ignore list from your WZ. i always put afkers, trolls, intentional bad players on ignore. if i see anyone in my ignore list in one of my warzones, i leave automatically. Edited February 16, 2012 by Mirialol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maradigamer Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I agree with the OP. And I think the root of the problem is blowout losses and teams that farm relentlessly when they're winning. It just isn't fun when that happens and it's worth losing the xp and medals to get out of that situation, or better yet, if I see it coming, to leave before it starts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouTJumped Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Other MMOs seem to cope fine with a warzone cool down for quitters. What makes SWTOR different? The problem is, this has become the 'norm' thus creating the issue of players waiting 5 mins + to join a wz match, only to find that its either a) about to end b) the team is losing c) both Both issues are created by people quitting. If you are a quitter, they should be given a penatly. However, much like the crappy ranking systems that plagued high level pvp in Rift, having so many types of armour commendations is creating an unbalanced playing field. So an idea to bring in brackets for lvl 50s may help, amongst other things Before Bioware do bring in any such penalty, they really need to fix their mess first Other games don't create such a reliance on winning to get gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouTJumped Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I agree with the OP. And I think the root of the problem is blowout losses and teams that farm relentlessly when they're winning. It just isn't fun when that happens and it's worth losing the xp and medals to get out of that situation, or better yet, if I see it coming, to leave before it starts. This. Why stay to get farmed? It is a waste of time. When my team tries to farm on Huttball I try and score so that it will end. The valor and comms are not a worthwhile reward. Winning is currently all that matters in endgame pvp, and until this changes, the attitude of people won't change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greennunu Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 You're absolutely right OP, cause when I enter the game in progress and the other team is on a landslide victory, the first thought in my head is "I'm gonna turn this around! me myself and I!". No people will just chain leave until one person who enters and is like "welp fast free points for me and run around and do nothing or close to nothing until the match is over. So in the scenario you put that the "leaver" is going ot ether afk or semi afk, I have no problems with, it doesn't make 3-6 more people walk into a losing game. It comes down to the deserters selfish wants, so a 15minute debuff is fine, cause if they are going to waste at least 1 other person's time they might as well be rewarded with the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manigma Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 If people are that pathetic, there is nothing to be done. It's one thing to screw over your teammates because you only want to play in a perfect match. (The WZ I want, not with bads, not against BM, not against premades etc etc etc) Now you are saying the quitters are going to actively ruin games because they cant passively ruin them. Hopefully the selfish who cant deal with being on a losing team or in their preferred WZ will quit the game. It's ironic you say this because a lot of the time I would leave when the rest of the team isn't pulling their weight or at least trying to go the objectives. So who is selfish? me, the guy who is battling my *** of to try get a win for the team, or the other guys who are pissing about chasing for kills or dmg medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thiagorib Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 another QQ quitter thread your days of quitting are counted. you dont want to deal with that dont queue for wz, stay in ilum. GJ BW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gonewild Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 When a deserter penalty is in place, it will force quiters to consider their decisions more carefully. People quitting matches is just as detrimental to a team as an afker. Ultimately I would like to see tgat behavior discouraged as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greennunu Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Other games don't create such a reliance on winning to get gear. *** are you talking about? you get nearly as much from losing as you do from winning. Or are you talking about the measely 3 wins? yeah cause making a chain of people to walk into a losing match so that you can potentially get into a winning match would increase the win/lose ratio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouTJumped Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 You're absolutely right OP, cause when I enter the game in progress and the other team is on a landslide victory, the first thought in my head is "I'm gonna turn this around! me myself and I!". No people will just chain leave until one person who enters and is like "welp fast free points for me and run around and do nothing or close to nothing until the match is over. So in the scenario you put that the "leaver" is going ot ether afk or semi afk, I have no problems with, it doesn't make 3-6 more people walk into a losing game. It comes down to the deserters selfish wants, so a 15minute debuff is fine, cause if they are going to waste at least 1 other person's time they might as well be rewarded with the same thing. Almost no one who is level 50 will do what you said. The valor +comms and so few and worthless that there is no point. They might only stay so when they reque they don't get put back into the same suckfest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouTJumped Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 *** are you talking about? you get nearly as much from losing as you do from winning. Or are you talking about the measely 3 wins? yeah cause making a chain of people to walk into a losing match so that you can potentially get into a winning match would increase the win/lose ratio. The comms you get from a WZ are pointless. The bags you get from dailys and weeklys is where the majority comes from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sathid Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 This post makes no sense. Fact people who leave WZ's are a small,very small amount of people. Fact people who do leave disrupt the majority of players due to buffs,team numbers etc Anyone complaining about some form of infraction for leaving a WZ should stop posting right now because no matter how you try to rationalize it,it just aint gonna happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drdarpa Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 See, this is the thing about this idea of giving a punishment to WZ quitters. I'll put aside the whole argument that everyone should have the right to play how they want to play and that if everybody can leave at will, then nobody is punished when people leave because everybody else can leave too. I'll put aside the argument that now you are going to be stuck playing in games where the other team exploits and you have no chance to win. I'll put aside the argument that now when you get UI bugged, crash out, or get forced out of the Warzone some way through no fault or choice of your own, you are going to get punished. Forget all those arguments for now. Players that want to leave a Warzone, but are forced to stay due to the penalty, they are just going to not try. Worse, they are going to sandbag their own team if it will expedite the end of the game by the other team winning. They are going to throw the ball to the other team. They are going to leave nodes undefended. They are going to friendly yank you into the fire/acid. They are going to watch the other team bomb the door and do nothing. They are going to just try to get kills fighting on the sides or in between nodes if they aren't the type to enjoy griefing their own team (and trust me, lots of people will do this, especially since they are introducing cross-server Warzones that will give people total anonymity). You can't make people do what they don't want to do. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. There is already a penalty for leaving warzones early, and that is not getting your valor, commendations, XP, or credits. Aligning the Dailies with this is the right thing to do, so that people do not have much to gain by leaving a Warzone and have more to gain by staying in it even if it is a loss. Penalizing people with a deserter debuff or any kind of lockout is only going to cause different, and much greater pains to the players who want to stay in and compete. I would much rather let someone leave and get a new player who might want to help the team, than make that first person stay and be stuck with a wasted spot, or worse, essentially giving the other team a 9th player. You're 110% correct. All of the people that cried about wz quitters will suffer the consequences of what they've asked for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greennunu Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Almost no one who is level 50 will do what you said. The valor +comms and so few and worthless that there is no point. They might only stay so when they reque they don't get put back into the same suckfest. Well fine take out the 1 person who might stay out of my statement, no one will want to stay and cause a infinitely loop of deserters thus wasting more people's time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbathius Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 OP, For what it's worth, I'm totally with you. What I'm personally hoping for is that this tidbit they posted about 1.2 changes is only the tip of the iceberg. If they have any brains at all, they will ALSO revisit how medals are being awarded and for what you get valor/comms. In other words, they could in theory make it pointless to AFK, AND punish quitters. Effectively forcing people to do their best to win. Coupled with decent matchmaking - like not putting a team of 4 level 10s vs a team of 4 level 49s - it could theoretically work. The main question now is - is Bioware smart enough to do that? Or are they going to derp it and just give quitters a debuff and leave the rest exactly as it was? If it's the former, the game will be fine. If it's the latter, it might very well kill warzones, along with the entire PvP population of the game. Because let's face it, as a PvPer at 50, what else do you have? Ilum? Don't make me laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undiess Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 You're 110% correct. All of the people that cried about wz quitters will suffer the consequences of what they've asked for. So scared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richardya Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 It's ironic you say this because a lot of the time I would leave when the rest of the team isn't pulling their weight or at least trying to go the objectives. So who is selfish? me, the guy who is battling my *** of to try get a win for the team, or the other guys who are pissing about chasing for kills or dmg medals. "the rest of the team isnt pulling their weight" in your opinion. They may think this about you. My guess is if everyone who felt this left every game would end prematurely. Luckily most arent selfish and gut it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouTJumped Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 You're 110% correct. All of the people that cried about wz quitters will suffer the consequences of what they've asked for. Agreed. If i join a 5-0 huttball, I will help the other team win so it ends and I can get a new que. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undiess Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Agreed. If i join a 5-0 huttball, I will help the other team win so it ends and I can get a new que. So egotistical. They don't need your help. Get over yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouTJumped Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 "the rest of the team isnt pulling their weight" in your opinion. They may think this about you. My guess is if everyone who felt this left every game would end prematurely. Luckily most arent selfish and gut it out. When I am the only person on my team actively trying to win, there is a problem. I am not going to sit around, waste my time, and lose so that a bunch of idiots can farm medals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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