Elyree Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Absolutely agree. 4 or more people can defend a side infinitely even if they're just suciiding aoeing on the flag. People in this game are complete idiots when it comes to breaking CC's. If that weren't the case 4 people should be able to easily take any Alderaan node from 2 other people. Edited February 16, 2012 by Elyree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRFC Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 IMO, just get rid of the side speeders. Makes middle a much better option leaving 1 easy to defend, 2 hard instead of 2 impossible not to defend if ever played before and one pointless. If someone dies on a side-turret, time to pull people off other turrets to go defend it ... currently if someone dies ... 'shall we go help?' - 'nah, they'll spawn, die and spawn again faster than we'd make it there anyways.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRFC Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 PVP in this game just generally favors the defenders. I've seen so many Void Stars where neither team made it even halfway to the finish and countless Civil Wars that didn't have a node change hands a single time after the initial caps. I can't tell you how many times I've ninja'd a node and that was all it took to get a win. This. L50 bracket you don't see anything but the first doors on VS for dozens of matches unless the other team is a few players down or completely lapses concentration. About to die? Spam them with DoTs that should last until you respawn, rinse-repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copasetic Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 PVP in this game just generally favors the defenders. I've seen so many Void Stars where neither team made it even halfway to the finish and countless Civil Wars that didn't have a node change hands a single time after the initial caps. I can't tell you how many times I've ninja'd a node and that was all it took to get a win. I disagree. I think Defending on Voidstar can be difficult at times, especially if the enemy team has good DPS that puts 4 or 5 of you in one respawn shield timer. The shield on Voidstar is far longer than on Huttball so every death has far more value than other maps. Alderaan has the least value in dying since you instantly spawn, click the side speeder, and you're back in action in about 5 seconds. Compare that to the 15~ second shield on Huttball and 20-30~ on Voidstar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 you need to kill the ppl defending a side turret at the same time and have CC rdy for when they land, thats how you do it, if u kill them not at the same time they will just land 1by 1 with too little time to cap in between When you have to force yourself not to kill people as fast as possible you know something is wrong with your PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cereyeth Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I've seen defenders in Void Star stay on the crate underneath the spawn point and ONLY come down to fight if either side gets wiped to ensure at least someone is alive to defend. That alone is usually enough to buy time for the rest of the team to return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NessusFett Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 /signed. if they just made it the middle speeder it would be more effective. the idea of the speeder being the spawn timer was effective and semi different take. but it effectively equates to insta spawns when side speeders are around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRFC Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 When you have to force yourself not to kill people as fast as possible you know something is wrong with your PvP. This. That kind of co-ordination just isn't realistic for even most pre-mades or even people on Skype. 'Syncronised killing' LAWL ... '****! Sorry guys, I accidently crit that guy!' - 'Ah ... seriously? You've thrown out the whole master plan!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cereyeth Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I disagree. I think Defending on Voidstar can be difficult at times, especially if the enemy team has good DPS that puts 4 or 5 of you in one respawn shield timer. The shield on Voidstar is far longer than on Huttball so every death has far more value than other maps. Alderaan has the least value in dying since you instantly spawn, click the side speeder, and you're back in action in about 5 seconds. Compare that to the 15~ second shield on Huttball and 20-30~ on Voidstar. Yes you will occasionally get a team with huge dps or an opponent with no healers and wipe the whole defense all at once, but this is the only scenario where the offense has the advantage. Like I said, most of the time defenders always have the edge and the offense has to overcome with either solid team play or a disparity in gear/skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruuprect Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Working as intended. If you have problems capping you need to get a better team. We retake objectives all the time from the enemy. L2CC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xallionn Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 This. That kind of co-ordination just isn't realistic for even most pre-mades or even people on Skype. 'Syncronised killing' LAWL ... '****! Sorry guys, I accidently crit that guy!' - 'Ah ... seriously? You've thrown out the whole master plan!' This just made me LOL. Need less crit/surge for this map! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cereyeth Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 If you're defending Void Star with solid heals it's basically kill farming for six minutes. The offense won't even sniff the second room the whole match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlagaNerezza Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 No. Its a good mechanic. you should try and initially cap right and left. If you do you should be able to hold them. If you don't you need to defend your right or left point and attack mid. It's just basic 101 wz. Zerg right as a repub. Run underneath and defend. Mid is undesirable for the non-instant speeder and should be the point you fight for. If you lost right/left you need to send all 6-7 at one side to cap it. 1-2 might try and stealth cap the other turret or draw players. A good Sin/scoundrel that can dissappear and harass the enemy is good for that roll. Just saying, you need to understand the mechanics are to help you from losing your main point. The point is, you cap mid first and you might have already lost to a good group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipso Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 yup, lets take out all tactics from game, and make it a zergfest like ilum. The idea is you hit hard on one node, then switch, but most people dont understand this, which is why I LOVE alderaan xDDDD. the side bikes are fine, I'd prefer they focus on things like turrets firing first for empire, and get that fixed. If you play alderaan properly, you should be holding one of the edge nodes anyway, if you're not, you're not capping/peeling properly(as a team, which i understand can be hard with puggers) it then becomes a game, of hit mid/switch edge/hit mid 'till you create an imbalance.(or someone ninja caps, you'd be amazed at how many times i've capped a node because opposing players prefer to finish their kill first xD) I agree with this, leave it how it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iridor Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 The side speeders are absolutely too fast. The mid one is fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRFC Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I agree with this, leave it how it is. I love how people assume that those who think the speeder spawn in this game isn't obnoxiously fast just keep butting their heads against the same node time and time again. You can try pretty much everything, but if they've got both nodes and merely 6 players who are just DETERMINED not to sacrifice those points then you've lost. To take that point realistically is down to throwing everyone on your team at it and leaving Mid vulerable which they usually take if you've been successful or not in taking the side-node. You can try all kinds of maneovres, all kinds of tactics like 'drop down left, run over and assault right', etc and it comes to nothing, nada, zero time and time again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkfreudHC Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I like the fact that the defenders have the advantage on the side nodes, I just think the advantage is a little too much. It's very close. It just needs to take a little longer for them to get there, that's all. I think the more you are winning the harder it should be to stay winning. As it is now, when you give advantages to the winning side most games are deciding within the first minute of active play. Giving advantages to the losing side would create closer games and more node flipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cereyeth Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Unfortunately the general frame of mind in most of the pugs I've seen is if you get two capped off the start in civil, it is instant gg. I had a team last night where half our team just turtled up at our one node for defender points as soon as the other team took their second node. Funny thing is the three of us that were still trying ninja'd back a second node and we won anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daiddu Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Even just back the landing point up a bit so you aren't in attack range for the capture point when you land would be good. And I haven't timed it but it does feel like the speeder ride isn't much if any longer than the time it takes to capture the turret. Just cap it on the far side and they have to either aoe or get line of sight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDFX Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I am fine with the current side speeder rates. They simply need to speed up the middle speeder now to keep it fair. More than that, they need to fix the vanishing speeder in spawn bug. Edited February 16, 2012 by SDFX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Just cap it on the far side and they have to either aoe or get line of sight. And so they aoe. Not difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cereyeth Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I've never been a fan of three node capture point maps in PvP. I always thought it was too easy to just have your defense zerg back and forth to hold the nodes. It's this reason that I always prefered Arathi Basin over Battle for Gilneas, but that's just me. Seems like it requires much more coordination and strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRFC Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I am fine with the current side speeder rates. They simply need to speed up the middle speeder now to keep it fair. More than that, they need to fix the vanishing speeder in spawn bug. Disagree. The whole point isn't to make one as stupidly easy to defend as the other two, the idea is to make it harder to defend the turrets. The side-speeder spawn time ruins the map. If I could currently choose to never play a map again it'd be Alderaan. It's a shame because w/o the side-speeders it would be my favourite by miles but the side-speeders make losses infuriating and wins cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRFC Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 And so they aoe. Not difficult. Or they've spammed you with DoTs before dying ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eclipso Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I love how people assume that those who think the speeder spawn in this game isn't obnoxiously fast just keep butting their heads against the same node time and time again. You can try pretty much everything, but if they've got both nodes and merely 6 players who are just DETERMINED not to sacrifice those points then you've lost. To take that point realistically is down to throwing everyone on your team at it and leaving Mid vulerable which they usually take if you've been successful or not in taking the side-node. You can try all kinds of maneovres, all kinds of tactics like 'drop down left, run over and assault right', etc and it comes to nothing, nada, zero time and time again. While your right your also wrong which is the beauty of the setup. Its all dependant on your team: * Focus fire * CC (without actually breaking it, a concept many dont seem to understand) * Positioning around the turret in relation to the speeder (when capping) * Body stacking / layering (harder to target) Add numerous other things you could come up with and create, Now I believe alot of this is hindered by the lack of in game voice but typing still is effective if you have a team of players with the same goal in mind which is to win. Now I would be just fine if they decided to move the speeders landing spot back 10- 20m or so but other then that I belive they would be hurting the WZ more then helping it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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