MegaBubble Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I've finally put my finger on what TOR is "missing" for me. It's missing that feeling of exploration, that "wow factor" you get when delving into a game world for the first time, exploring it's universe, it's creatures, it's lore. It doesnt give me that sense of wonderment that I typically look for in an MMO, transporting me to an alternate world that I can "lose myself" in. And I think that the Star Wars franchise is to blame. Playing an Star Wars MMO does have some perks of course. It's a recreation of a very cool universe, for starters. It's got an incredibly rich lore and a wealth of material to draw upon. And, it is noticeably lacking elves. But along with the "good" that comes from an MMO based on such a well-known IP comes the "bad", too: there's nothing new about it. You trade the feeling of exploring something never-before-seen for the feeling of exploring, and often times RE-exploring places that are cool because you've seen them before, but in slightly different forms. This, I feel, robs me of that feeling of exploring the "unknown" that I crave in a virtual world. It prevents my mind from being fully enveloped in the game's world because my subconscious has to cross-reference the planets, the people, and even the wildlife that I'm experiencing against the myriad other places I've seen these things before in other forms of media. Not only are there the films, books, and other sources of Star Wars fiction the game has to contend with in it's aim to be "new" and "exciting", but there's even already been another MMO that the game has to contend with, one that arguably, in some ways, represented the IP better. In the end I still enjoy the game - I have no plans of leaving it anytime soon. I've got a pair of 50s, and am working on 2 other alts. I foresee dwelling in TOR's world for a good while to come yet, at the very least 6 mos. to a year. But I play it with that nagging feeling in the back of my mind that my craving for exploring a new digital frontier has gone unsatisfied, and I find myself keeping an eye on sites like Massively.com for the "next good MMO", something I really shouldn't be doing if I'm fully engaged in an MMO that's a mere 2 months old. I wondered if anyone else felt this way. That maybe the game would have been more engaging in this regard had it been set in an original IP, or perhaps even a lesser known one like the Mass Effect universe? Give me your thoughts on it. Edited February 16, 2012 by MegaBubble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaBubble Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Bumped, in the hopes of generating some intelligent discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkateOnTrees Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) its sad because the game is massive and actually would/could support exploration but the mechanics and focus of the game just do not support it so sad because if you just wander around with nothing to do, using the mouse to sightsee in all the various directions. graphics jacked up, sound and everything, you notice the worlds are in fact gigantic, immersive, and beautiful Edited February 16, 2012 by SkateOnTrees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnapWolf Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I get what you mean, but with the diversity that is the Expanded Universe, it brings us a lot of creativity. I know a lot of people don't consider the Expanded Universe canon, and don't want any part in it, and that's quite sad for them. It's up to debate and arguing. However that's not the point. The Old Republic is part of the Expanded Universe weither you like or not. It exists weither you don't believe in it or not. If to you, Star Wars is only the movies and nothing else, it's perfectly fine, no one can argue. If it's everything, it's perfectly fine as well. Edited February 16, 2012 by Sejia inappropriate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaBubble Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) its sad because the game is massive and actually would/could support exploration but the mechanics and focus of the game just do not support it so sad because if you just wander around with nothing to do, using the mouse to sightsee in all the various directions. graphics jacked up, sound and everything, you notice the worlds are in fact gigantic, immersive, and beautiful I think the eploration is there, in my case it's just that I'm not exploring anything truly "new". I've seen it, and done it already in other video games, in movies, in books, in cartoons. The world (or Galaxy) of Star Wars has been explored so much that I find it difficult to get that feeling of excitement I get from running around a game's world for the first time when I'm playing TOR. I do think that some things could have been done to improve overall "exploration" in the game, but moreso than that the familiarity of the Star Wars IP is my issue. Edited February 16, 2012 by MegaBubble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaBubble Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I get what you mean, but with the diversity that is the Expanded Universe, it brings us a lot of creativity. I know a lot of people don't consider the Expanded Universe canon, and don't want any part in it, and that's quite sad for them. It's up to debate and arguing. However that's not the point. The Old Republic is part of the Expanded Universe weither you like or not. It exists weither you don't believe in it or not. If to you, Star Wars is only the movies and nothing else, it's perfectly fine, no one can argue. If it's everything, it's perfectly fine as well. Actually, the EU is part of the problem I have with TOR failing to "fascinate" me. There's such a wealth of information and content in the Star Wars universe that it's to the point of being oversaturated - nothing is "new" or "fresh". Even planets that we've never seen or content that is designed brand new for this game take place in the same, familiar setting. Coming in to TOR I viewed that as a positive, but after spending considerable time in-game, I've come to realize that it greatly contributed to TOR losing that "new car smell" very fast. In the end - it's Star Wars again. Enjoyable, for sure - but Tattooine is stil Tattooine. Edited February 16, 2012 by Sejia reply to inappropriate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliezer Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I do not believe that familiarity with the Star Wars IP is an issue. However, I am a fan of the movies. I was completely unaware until this game just how god-awful and horrendous the "expanded universe" material is! Now I actually understand why Lucas thought the prequels would be well received... Because the crap in the EU is of sub-Twilight quality. I actually wonder if Bioware was aware of how bad it was before they bought it and got stuck with stuff like Taris and the Space-Worgen, I mean Rakghouls. And don't even get me started on Revan :-p Sorry Revan fans, but characters like that are very unappealing to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliezer Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Actually going back to the original poster's point, I do think that some of the stuff in the game is gratuitous. Like, say Hoth. I know, it is an iconic planet from Empire Strikes Back, but the way it is used kind of surprises me. I figured the Rebels used it in Empire because well, no one goes there. But now we find that it was a highly trafficked world seeing a lot of action! :-p Same for Tatooine. In the original Star Wars it was a complete backwater. Now we found out that Darth Vader was actually born there... Which of course makes it the perfect spot for Obi-Want to hide Luke Skywalker? Without even changing his name? Thank God, Vader or the Emperor never checked the phone book :-p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshalleck Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I actually wonder if Bioware was aware of how bad it was before they bought it and got stuck with stuff like Taris and the Space-Worgen, I mean Rakghouls. And don't even get me started on Revan :-p Sorry Revan fans, but characters like that are very unappealing to me. They knew what they were dealing with, since Bioware are the ones who created Taris, rakghouls, and Revan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selaik Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 They knew what they were dealing with, since Bioware are the ones who created Taris, rakghouls, and Revan. great point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cattermole Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I actually wonder if Bioware was aware of how bad it was before they bought it and got stuck with stuff like Taris and the Space-Worgen, I mean Rakghouls. If you're going to play the "someone else did it first" game, then you need to go back further. You know, to Werewolf lore and myths. Also, Rakghouls strike me more as a runner zombies derivative...Doctor Lorkin notwithstanding. Edited February 16, 2012 by cattermole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaBubble Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 For me it's less about how "good" the EU content is than the fact that it exists. The universe of Star Wars is so familiar that it's hard for me to ever feel as though I'm exploring new ground and new concepts in a Star Wars game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coiffio Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Even planets that we've never seen or content that is designed brand new for this game take place in the same, familiar setting. Coming in to TOR I viewed that as a positive, but after spending considerable time in-game, I've come to realize that it greatly contributed to TOR losing that "new car smell" very fast. In the end - it's Star Wars again. Enjoyable, for sure - but Tattooine is stil Tattooine. This is my problem with the game as far as the settings go, I really REALLY, wish that star wars games would STOP using Tattoine as a backdrop, we get it, it was in the movies, but a lot of star wars games just feel a need to have this planet around. There are other worlds, lots of other worlds that could be used. Now some of the settings I do like, such as Ord Mantell before it became one big junkyard. However it feels a lot like these games just play it safe, and keep falling back to familiar settings that get used a lot in other star wars media. Don't get me wrong, for example, Nar Shadaa looks good, but count up how many star wars games have sent you to this planet, how many books used this place as a backdrop? Take a chance, show us some other places in the universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eliezer Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 If you're going to play the "someone else did it first" game, then you need to go back further. You know, to Werewolf lore and myths. Also, Rakghouls strike me more as a runner zombies derivative...Doctor Lorkin notwithstanding. Fair enough... but still... So a "Wizard" (Because EU more or less paints Sith as wizards) made a magic amulet that changed people into Rakghouls... but not everyone, so he also made a Plague... and then his magic talisman, essentially a Lich's phylacetry, goes hither and yon, possess some Jedi or other blah blah blah.... Your mileage may vary, but that is more like a bad D&D session to me than what I think of as Star Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I've finally put my finger on what TOR is "missing" for me. It's missing that feeling of exploration, that "wow factor" you get when delving into a game world for the first time, exploring it's universe, it's creatures, it's lore. It doesnt give me that sense of wonderment that I typically look for in an MMO, transporting me to an alternate world that I can "lose myself" in. And I think that the Star Wars franchise is to blame. Playing an Star Wars MMO does have some perks of course. It's a recreation of a very cool universe, for starters. It's got an incredibly rich lore and a wealth of material to draw upon. And, it is noticeably lacking elves. But along with the "good" that comes from an MMO based on such a well-known IP comes the "bad", too: there's nothing new about it. You trade the feeling of exploring something never-before-seen for the feeling of exploring, and often times RE-exploring places that are cool because you've seen them before, but in slightly different forms. This, I feel, robs me of that feeling of exploring the "unknown" that I crave in a virtual world. It prevents my mind from being fully enveloped in the game's world because my subconscious has to cross-reference the planets, the people, and even the wildlife that I'm experiencing against the myriad other places I've seen these things before in other forms of media. Not only are there the films, books, and other sources of Star Wars fiction the game has to contend with in it's aim to be "new" and "exciting", but there's even already been another MMO that the game has to contend with, one that arguably, in some ways, represented the IP better. In the end I still enjoy the game - I have no plans of leaving it anytime soon. I've got a pair of 50s, and am working on 2 other alts. I foresee dwelling in TOR's world for a good while to come yet, at the very least 6 mos. to a year. But I play it with that nagging feeling in the back of my mind that my craving for exploring a new digital frontier has gone unsatisfied, and I find myself keeping an eye on sites like Massively.com for the "next good MMO", something I really shouldn't be doing if I'm fully engaged in an MMO that's a mere 2 months old. I wondered if anyone else felt this way. That maybe the game would have been more engaging in this regard had it been set in an original IP, or perhaps even a lesser known one like the Mass Effect universe? Give me your thoughts on it. hmmm, for me it's the immersion more than the "wow factor". If I can lose myself in the world, it really doesn't matter if that world is new to me. Same was true with LOTRO, I'd read the books a dozen times, and nothing was new in it for me when I played the game, but the game was done so well and it immersed me in a childhood favorite world, that I enjoyed the hell out of it. Same is pretty much true here, just being there is really all I need if they have developed the universe well enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaBubble Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 hmmm, for me it's the immersion more than the "wow factor". If I can lose myself in the world, it really doesn't matter if that world is new to me. Same was true with LOTRO, I'd read the books a dozen times, and nothing was new in it for me when I played the game, but the game was done so well and it immersed me in a childhood favorite world, that I enjoyed the hell out of it. Same is pretty much true here, just being there is really all I need if they have developed the universe well enough. Its definitely about the immersion, and that's something TOR just doesn't provide me. Maybe I haven'tput my finger on the exact reason why, maybe the familiarity of the IP isn't the reason at all. But this game just doesn't "pull me in" the way games like Fallen Earth and Tabula Rasa have in the past. Oddly enough, I was even more immersed in WoW for the year I played it - and this is a game whose lore I could give two ***** about. But it's lore aside, the game world, the way it was crafted...something about it just made me feel like I was exploring "new" territory". I might be off the mark as to why TOR isn't giving me that feeling, but it's unmistakably missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gokkus Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I understand what youre saying. Somehow KOTOR had a better atmosphere and immersion for me. Plus the companions became more alive. I understand this is hard to copy to an MMO though. Worlds are so much bigger which means more is needed to fill it with. Besides, apart from the choosing of the planets, KOTOR was more lineair than SWTOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayfax Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Interesting point, and something I hadn't considered before. I have the opposite problem: the game doesn't feel Star Warsy enough. Starter planets look great, but they also tend to look like places from other kind of legends -- excepting direct references to the Force & lightsabers, Tython feels like just about any highly polished fantasy RPG. I loved Hutta, but running around there felt like playing some kind of weird Fallout expansion pack. I agree with the poster above that Kotor was more immersive & had much more of a Star Wars feel. Maybe that's because the bulk of the story was centered around Jedi, which obviously wouldn't work so well for an MMO. PS: I see your point about Tatooine. The problem is, it's iconic. It's really the only planet featured in the first film and fans always expect it to be there. Edited February 16, 2012 by Dayfax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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