NomineImperator Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Just to be clear, putting a penalty on leaving a warzone will not make people not want to leave warzones. If you WANT to leave a warzone rather than sit through it and tough it out, then whatever that reason could possibly be it is a good enough reason. Unless the penalty was 'Ban for a week' or something that actually prevented you from going and doing other stuff, then it won't stop people from leaving. People will just go and do other **** - quest, craft, goof around, run in circles, bash their heads against walls, **********, roleplay, talk to friends, go afk and get a sandwich, or maybe all of the above. I don't judge. You just have to understand the only effect that demanding a warzone leaver penalty will have is two things - it will unnecessarily punish people who get disconnected or have to get up because their cat just threw up all over the keyboard, and it will make your queue times (slightly) longer for everyone, since there won't be as many people re-queueing in a timely fashion. The last one there is the most important to keep in mind. TL;DR, people who want to leave warzones don't give a **** already, so what kind of backwards logic is it that imposing some time penalty on them will make them suddenly care? All it would be doing is removing people from the pool of potential queueing PVPers. Bump the thread if you agree! Edited February 16, 2012 by NomineImperator
Cegenaus Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) if they implement a deserter debuff that can potentially halt progress on dailies i dont think the pvp community will be happy. there are a lot of people who suck at this game and they whine about no one wanting to carry them. i hope they add ranked wzs and if they do then they cant come fast enough. im not going to sit through loss after loss because people cant get their heads out of their asses, baddies need to be punished for ruining my gameplay by either playing with themselves or not having anyone to queue with, hopefully the latter. ill probably roll a few more toons and then fantasize about what im going to do with the extra $15 a month while bw caters to the scrubs Edited February 16, 2012 by Cegenaus
DariuszPol Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Just to be clear, putting a penalty on leaving a warzone will not make people not want to leave warzones. If you WANT to leave a warzone rather than sit through it and tough it out, then whatever that reason could possibly be it is a good enough reason. Unless the penalty was 'Ban for a week' or something that actually prevented you from going and doing other stuff, then it won't stop people from leaving. People will just go and do other **** - quest, craft, goof around, run in circles, bash their heads against walls, **********, roleplay, talk to friends, go afk and get a sandwich, or maybe all of the above. I don't judge. You just have to understand the only effect that demanding a warzone leaver penalty will have is two things - it will unnecessarily punish people who get disconnected or have to get up because their cat just threw up all over the keyboard, and it will make your queue times (slightly) longer for everyone, since there won't be as many people re-queueing in a timely fashion. The last one there is the most important to keep in mind. TL;DR, people who want to leave warzones don't give a **** already, so what kind of backwards logic is it that imposing some time penalty on them will make them suddenly care? All it would be doing is removing people from the pool of potential queueing PVPers. Bump the thread if you agree! And some people don't want to play hutball all the time. As someone said. With another patch we will have ability to queue for specific warzone. Then they will add penalty for leaving. Simple and good. I only hope that penalty will be small or it will consider people disconnecting for some reason.
CupieFoxtail Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 It would make me queue with premades, and stop carrying baddies
lilyahna Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) I honestly don't understand why Completely Fail Groups need to maintain some sort of loyalty from folks that are actually trying to win? I've left warzones where my catalyst was losing 3-0 in the first three minutes while three people in the group were standing in the spawn room talking about cosmetic gear. Why should I get penalized for not wanting to waste my time like that? "Binding" penalities shouldn't take place unless other people in the warzones either: A) don't also have the option to leave or B) don't have the option to continue the warzone because spots can't be filled due to game-mechanics (which isn't an issue). and C) For the obvious reasons the OP stated. Edited February 16, 2012 by lilyahna
AetherMcLoud Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 if they implement a deserter debuff that can potentially halt progress on dailies i dont think the pvp community will be happy. there are a lot of people who suck at this game and they whine about no one wanting to carry them. i hope they add ranked wzs and if they do then they cant come fast enough. im not going to sit through loss after loss because people cant get their heads out of their asses, baddies need to be punished for ruining my gameplay by either playing with themselves or not having anyone to queue with, hopefully the latter. ill probably roll a few more toons and then fantasize about what im going to do with the extra $15 a month while bw caters to the scrubs They already wrote that 1.2 will implement a deserter buff coupled with a change that you don't need the daily for your gear progression anymore that will make the commendations that you get at the end of even a lost battle much more important. It's on the developer tracker.
Niddhog Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Actually, a lot of people that leave do so because they figure the game is hopeless/they don't want to try. Its quicker (to get their daily done) to quit and requeue. When you slap 30 minutes on to this, it no long makes it quicker (back to back queues, 30 minutes is 2 games). Will this stop everyone? Of course not. No system is going to be perfect... however what you are not factoring into this is how much it ruins the experience for everyone to join losing games. Often, in say huttball when one team scores in the first minute and a half, you can guarantee 2 will leave if not more. Now while we are waiting for 2-4 more people to accept queue, wait for their loading screens/get past the load door... we are down those people and usually get scored on again. Which causes another person or two to leave.... and so forth. This ruins the game for those on the losing team. Honestly, most games that we get scored on in the beginning aren't hopelessly lopsided- the other team just caught mine off guard/before it could sync up. I'm simply asking for SOMETHING to be done, so as to improve the quality of game for the rest of us. Will this "screw over" people that get D/C's RL issue? Yes, but honestly this is an online game. If you have D/C problems its going to be very hard to play anyway. And as far as RL issues? **** happens, but you are overplaying this unless someone is a stay at-home parent... in which case they don't need to be playing games that keep them occupied away from the infant. I also feel you are over-blowing the frequency of these occurances. On top of that... what about the people that only have time for one more WZ before RL/bedtime pulls them away for the day? Work, homework, etc. When their (potentially last) win of the day is sabotaged by a dip **** quitter that can't even put forth the effort to try (probably swearing non stop about how its not worth trying cause Sorcs are so OP/they nerfed my surge blah blah blah QQ)... it ruins their day even more. Not everyone has the time to queue 10 WZ a day for the hopes of winning just 3. Again, no system is perfect, but something DOES need to be done with rampant quitting. The few people that will be inconvenienced by it are unfortunate, but far less than those being screwed over by the current system. If not this though, how would you solve this problem? Or do you hold that there isn't a problem to solve/its impossible to do so?
Mcfondles Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Unless the penalty was 'Ban for a week' or something that actually prevented you from going and doing other stuff, then it won't stop people from leaving. People will just go and do other **** - quest, craft, goof around, run in circles, bash their heads against walls, **********, roleplay, talk to friends, go afk and get a sandwich, or maybe all of the above. I don't judge. I'm really curious now what that says now... lol.. So it's one curse word and it's separated by commas so it's not like a string of words like "*********** fish" or something.. It's its own idea.. And it's used in a list of activities that you can do in Swtor.. Either you're doing some really weird stuff in-game or I'm just over analyzing this..
oldshatterhand Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Only penalty needed is a debuff that prevents you joining a WZ for 30 minutes if you leave one.
Overlord- Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 They need a deserter penalty. 1: Person leaves warzone. -- That person gets a Debuff, which stacks. -10% valor gain from each warzone he leaves with a cooldown of 30mins. If that person leaves warzone after warzone it stacks up and wont get any valor at all.
arteous Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 They need a deserter penalty. 1: Person leaves warzone. -- That person gets a Debuff, which stacks. -10% valor gain from each warzone he leaves with a cooldown of 30mins. If that person leaves warzone after warzone it stacks up and wont get any valor at all. most idiotic idea ever. Why punish when you can put incentives to stay instead? right now i think it's going to be a 15 min debuff. fine .. i'd rather eat that than spend 15 minutes in a fail group failling at forceball/voidstar/alderaan. i'll just do something ealse for those 15 minutes. Want me to want to stay? make it so just like the people that just hit 50 and decide that running in circles is fun and ignoring objectives while they medal farm is that way for me to get advanced in gear. As a battlemaster only wins count. medals mean nothing. let me turn in tokens earned in battlegrounds even if some kind of absurd conversion gets me closer to battlemaster gear. Then you will see players staying. 15 min debuff is nothing. 30 min debuff is nothing. it took me today from 2:30 pm cst till 10:45 pm cst to get my 3 wins. every game i left was a loss or was a game i got pulled in and was allready being lost. slap a 30 min debuff i'll just watch tv while waiting out the debuff. or level an alt while debuff is ticking.
Kaarsa Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 TL;DR, people who want to leave warzones don't give a **** already, so what kind of backwards logic is it that imposing some time penalty on them will make them suddenly care? All it would be doing is removing people from the pool of potential queueing PVPers. What will 30 minutes lockout of this kind of people do for those who actually want to pvp (and not only get BM gear and then whine that they dont have anything to do)? Those "I will leave because we lost a point in hutball in 3rd minute" will be not in my next match. My chances of actually getting an interesting match just increased. I prefer to have 30 minutes queue and then good and exciting match than 3 WZ in this time, all three patheticaly lost because those "I only care about winning, and I prefer other people to carry me than even try to play" decided to quit. Multiple times. IMO, penalty for first leave should be 5 minutes. Then if you leave another game in next 2 hours, increase to 15 minutes. Then 30 minutes. Then 1 hour. Then 12 hours etc. This way if you got random DC, game bug or whatever you are not overly penalized. If you DC every 15 minutes, you shouldnt be playing warzones anyway with that kind of connection because you are screwing over your teamates more often than not. If you are fishing for winning side contantly leaving WZ, than sorry, you are the worst possible kind of player any pvper want to see in his team, it will be better for pvp community if you will be not allowed to queue and ruin other people gameplay.
Soazak Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 As long as there is a choice of Warzone I don't see it a terrible change. But they do need to understand this will turn leavers into AFKers, which most of the time is worse. There should be no rewards for no contribution.
arteous Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 If you are fishing for winning side contantly leaving WZ, than sorry, you are the worst possible kind of player any pvper want to see in his team, it will be better for pvp community if you will be not allowed to queue and ruin other people gameplay. If they are happy spending 15 bucks a month to get farmed by another team while running in circles getting killed and not getting their daily/weekly done then they should be happy that someone ealse like them takes my place as i leave. And the reason most people leave is because the system once you hit a certain point only rewards wins .. not effort. Untill that changes people will not want to stick arround and get farmed for 15-20 minutes.
Kaarsa Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 And the reason most people leave is because the system once you hit a certain point only rewards wins .. not effort. Untill that changes people will not want to stick arround and get farmed for 15-20 minutes. If you pvp only for reward, I dont want to play with you.
Barzarel Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Gonna wait and warm up the popcorns for the steam wave of whinning, that inevitable will appear when a change like this take effect, and people will be stuck with other players doing nothing like it was with alterac valley in WoW, where people just botted started fishing or watched a movie while they occasionally move a little to remove deserter buff. Problem isn't one with people leaving its with poor match making, and when people won't leave but decide to become passive instead, while rest team get tromped by a Roflstomping premade, for easy commendations for premade team, which is bound to be the result, ill see you then when people come to pvp forum whinning about the new problem.
Piriste Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 a deserter penalty is not needed. The problem is to make warzones fun, people leave for a few things a) It's not fun (not balanced teams) -> Workaround: Make better matchmaker b) Remove Premades from normal warzones -> Makes more even teams c) Daily quest shouldnt need winning.
Barzarel Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 right now i think it's going to be a 15 min debuff. fine .. i'd rather eat that than spend 15 minutes in a fail group failling at forceball/voidstar/alderaan. i'll just do something ealse for those 15 minutes. Come on be honest, you'll stay watch a movie or read forums, while you occasional move to still get the 31 warzone commendations at end for losing, it makes more matematical sense since the warzones are time capped to about 15min tops per WZ, unlike WoW where it went on until one team eventually finished their objectives. So what make more sense you get 0 commendations since its calculated at end, or you stay and go afk and just move occasionally while doing something else and get 31 at end?
NevesNET Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 "PvP -> People leaving wz is now out of control. Patch 1.2, among many other PvP changes, will remove the reliance on daily quests for your gear progression (and therefore increasing the value of the commendations you get for playing a match to the end) and penalties for quitters." Guess you don't even need to do dailies to get your pvp gear anymore, just log in I suppose...
Wisz_Rethon Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) no penalty. They leave and rejoin Q as soon as they're out? they get tp'd right back where they were Edited February 16, 2012 by Wisz_Rethon
Seriasx Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Sometimes I dont want to carry bad players so I guess that Ill either only do premades from now on or do something else outside of the game if I do decide to pug and my team is terrible. Grats premades, now you have an even larger advantage
Barzarel Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) "PvP -> People leaving wz is now out of control. Patch 1.2, among many other PvP changes, will remove the reliance on daily quests for your gear progression (and therefore increasing the value of the commendations you get for playing a match to the end) and penalties for quitters." Guess you don't even need to do dailies to get your pvp gear anymore, just log in I suppose... Which isn't neccesarily a good thing as people will be more inclinded to actually just farm medals, than being concerned with objectives. Sometimes I dont want to carry bad players so I guess that Ill either only do premades from now on or do something else outside of the game if I do decide to pug and my team is terrible. Grats premades, now you have an even larger advantage Which what ive been saying problem isn't people leaving, but one with match making. But i think most the premade want to make it appear other way around, as it will give them quite a bit more potential to farm people at spawns for medals, and it wont be long till we see the first of those whines come after patch. When wins no longer have a really big importance for the amount of bags, those already speculating on getting easy bags by steamrolling other teams, will be more inclined to rather than complete the match sit at enemy's spawn and farm people for medals, to get more warzone commendations at end for gear. Edited February 16, 2012 by Barzarel
Cempa Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Don't forget about the ensuing onslaught of complaints regarding PuG Vs. Pre-Made. Deserter debuff will bring many..many more complainants. I will venture out and make a prediction once deserter debuff is enabled and more pre mades play: 1) NURF Sentinel/Marauders they are GOD MODE! 2) NURF HEALING the are GOD MODE! Now they just leave, after they will stop queuing and stop playing PvP/alts all together. I have a crazy recommendation: 1) Normal WZ to allow people to leave. 2) Rated is another story. Edited February 16, 2012 by Cempa
mordredz Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Just to be clear, putting a penalty on leaving a warzone will not make people not want to leave warzones. If you WANT to leave a warzone rather than sit through it and tough it out, then whatever that reason could possibly be it is a good enough reason. Unless the penalty was 'Ban for a week' or something that actually prevented you from going and doing other stuff, then it won't stop people from leaving. People will just go and do other **** - quest, craft, goof around, run in circles, bash their heads against walls, **********, roleplay, talk to friends, go afk and get a sandwich, or maybe all of the above. I don't judge. You just have to understand the only effect that demanding a warzone leaver penalty will have is two things - it will unnecessarily punish people who get disconnected or have to get up because their cat just threw up all over the keyboard, and it will make your queue times (slightly) longer for everyone, since there won't be as many people re-queueing in a timely fashion. The last one there is the most important to keep in mind. TL;DR, people who want to leave warzones don't give a **** already, so what kind of backwards logic is it that imposing some time penalty on them will make them suddenly care? All it would be doing is removing people from the pool of potential queueing PVPers. Bump the thread if you agree! Actually it will stop them from LEAVING MULTIPLE over and over, so yes its needed.... Thanks!
Barzarel Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Don't forget about the ensuing onslaught of complaints regarding PuG Vs. Pre-Made. Deserter debuff will bring many..many more complainants. I will venture out and make a prediction once deserter debuff is enabled and more pre mades play: 1) NURF Sentinel/Marauders they are GOD MODE! 2) NURF HEALING the are GOD MODE! Now they just leave, after they will stop queuing and stop playing PvP/alts all together. I have a crazy recommendation: 1) Normal WZ to allow people to leave. 2) Rated is another story. I never been one to leave warzones, IVE DOME IT EXACTLY 1 time ever, because i accidently opened on while in a premade, as a reflex response, and few times not by choice due to game bugs crashing med. But i know when this deserter debuff comes, ill be done with pvp for good. Im simply not gonna set through countless Warzone sessions just to be farmed by premades, while there AFK'ers botting around, if i can no longer play casual(pug) warzones anymore and have some chance at still progression im done with pvp. But that said i don't imagine anyone care regardlessly i cancelled my sub, and will be looking forward to playing mass effect 3, skyrim, diablo 3 or Guildwars 2, but premades you got what you wanted, have fun roflstomping pugs its what you do best afterall.
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