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Lack of Mobility/Gap Closer


Crazysithslayer

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I just picked up the class and am loving it. I just have one huge issue. LACK OF MOBILITY.

 

I cannot tell you how many times a gap closer would have been useful to reach that mob... or player before they died...or I died.... force speed is nice and all but it just doesn't cut it.

We need an ability similar to jedi knights force leap or a shadowstep type ability.

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I just picked up the class and am loving it. I just have one huge issue. LACK OF MOBILITY.

 

I cannot tell you how many times a gap closer would have been useful to reach that mob... or player before they died...or I died.... force speed is nice and all but it just doesn't cut it.

We need an ability similar to jedi knights force leap or a shadowstep type ability.

 

OP you gotta look at the skill trees and what builds. If your kinetic you have force pull. 2 slows, and 3 stuns. That should be enough of a gap closer if not I think you need a BH or something.

 

Also you have to look at level 50 so you know what all the abilities are. Just read the jedi shadow handbook sticky its really great

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If you want mobility, go for Infiltration or Kinetic. As infiltration, you get:

 

+15% Movement Speed in combat.

-50% Slow, maintainable on one target.

Force Speed on 30s CD.

 

 

As Kinetic, you get:

-30% Slow, maintainable on 5 targets.

-50% Slow, 6/12s uptime on one target.

Force Pull on a 45s CD.

Force Speed on a 20s CD.

Force Speed removes slows/roots.

 

 

Personally, I prefer infiltration. Between stealth and speed, you can easily get within 10m of your target. Once you're close, hit them with Force Slow and they have almost no chance of escaping you. That +15% in-combat run speed makes a huge difference.

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We are one of the most mobile classes in the game imo. I am going to talk from the Kinetic build angle here, because that is what I play:

 

Kinetic Build:

 

-Force speed, and when specced removes all movement impairing effects every 20 secs if specced in that too

 

-Stealth

 

-Force Pull

 

-30% aoe snare, with a built in debuff to boot

 

-Single target snare

 

-A knock down

 

-A stun

 

-Resilience (Resist all Force and Tech attacks for 3 sec) amazing for closing on lightning using sorcs

 

-Vanish (if you get jumped, vanish use resilience and then close on them and beat face)

 

 

These are what I can think of off the top of my head. I can't tell you how many times I have been knocked back and snared by the knock back and all i do is pop force speed an i am up in their face. With a 20 sec cool down it always seems to be up.

 

Call us the lazy Jedi, we don't go to them, they come to us!

Edited by Crazybobo
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Snares and invis are not gap closers.....

 

The only true gap closers we have are speed and pull.

 

The only problem I have is that speed is inferior to the leaps etc... While on a long *** cd again relative to leap.

 

I think we have different definitions of gap closers. Based on what I assume your definition of gap closers is, speed and pull are the two "reduce distance between you and the target at a rapid pace" abilities.

 

In response to your cd comment, they only have force leap... we have pull and speed. Speed is a 20 sec cool down. That is short!

 

Plus if you get to them they shouldn't be getting away from you. We are one of the stickiest classes. Snare them, stun, knock down and if they do get away pull them back to you and snare them again.

 

As for your comment on the others not being gap closers. I think you need to open your mind to different play styles. Snares slow the target so you can close the distance between you and your target rapidly. Same with stuns.

 

Stealth is also a gap closer because you can be on the target before they know you are there.

 

Just because it isn't a flashy flip through the air with spins and glitter doesn't mean it doesn't help you close the distance between you and your target. (aka a gap closer)

Edited by Crazybobo
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Snares and invis are not gap closers.....

 

The only true gap closers we have are speed and pull.

 

The only problem I have is that speed is inferior to the leaps etc... While on a long *** cd again relative to leap.

 

First, gap closers as I define them are anything that stops someone from keeping me at arm's length. Snares do not technically count, because it is true that if I snare him and he snares me, we're both just moving at the speed of smell, and the gap between me & my target is not closed. In this situation, my Kinetic Shadow has several options:

 

Force Stun, close the gap by walking.

Force Speed, shed the snare or root, close the gap at a sprint.

Force Pull, eliminate the gap by bringing my target to me.

Tenacity, shed CC and close gap by various means.

Resilience, shed CC and close gap by various means.

 

But I don't even need to close the gap to do some of my bigger hits. Sometimes I can just kill them with Project & Slow Time. This also yields stacks of Harnessed Shadows, which I will use in conjunction with Force Potency + Telekinetic Throw.

 

I nearly always have something from these choices above available to use.

 

Lastly, Force Speed is not on a long cool down. It is probably similar to the various "leap" abilities throughout the game, but I have not mined the ability tooltips to confirm this.

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Not that I think we need one as I feel the mobility is good already. Huttball can be frustrating because we don't have one that can travel planes and we would probably have too much mobility on flat surfaces if we got one.

 

But if we did I would really like it to be similar to this ability:

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/blj4l8c/shadow-strike

 

Some Jedi Mobs in Correlia have it. Obviously the cooldown would have to be adjusted and what-not, but it's basically a "Shadow Step" for anyone that played WoW. Would be a very cool ability to have.

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Talented Force speed and resilience along are extremely useful in PvP specifically for gap closing and general survivabilty.

 

Force Pull is so useful I have a hard time even thinking about PvP without it now, in Huttball it actually allows you to do something in 3d space. The ability to yank a ball carrier down as they are just about to score is priceless.

 

I would certainly have fun with a force leap/shadow step type ability, but I don't think it is necessary for the class and would probably be overpowered. Perhaps giving force pull to all shadows as it was in beta would make sense.

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The only time where closing the gap becomes difficult for me is in Hutball due to the platforms. It helps to always start high and only go down a level if you absolutely have to. It's always better to be a level too high and be doing nothing then a level too low and not be able to reach a carrier when you need to.
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The base cd of leap is like 12 or 14 sec I think. Can't remember atm. It also deals damage, can stun, and can cross 3 dimensional distances.

 

Stuns are CCs not gap closers. Gap closers get you to your target in 1gcd.

 

Fair enough. Just a difference in terminology. To me, a gap closer is anything that closes a gap intentionally created by my target to keep me out of melee range. It doesn't have to be 1 GCD. Is there a ruling authority on this of which I am unaware?

 

The longest I am out of range of anyone is probably 2 GCD anyway. 1 to pop a CD and 1 to walk to my target.

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While everything regarding speed and immunity to movement impairing effects is true, we're still all Jedi. Jedi can jump. I don't think it's totally bonkers to hope that we might get Kira Carsen's and Nadia Grell's "charge" ability some day, which would make our class monumentally more fun to play. I'm not saying that shadow isn't already one of the most fun classes to play, but leaping around like a Jedi is kind of what I expected.

 

Darth Maul did it. Kira and Nadia can do it. Master Satele did it in the cinematics. Make it something you get by investing skill points, but don't just shoot the idea down because we don't have it right now.

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I like the replies on here but what people seem to be mentioning in most of their posts revolves around one build...kinetic.....which seems to be the only viable build on here... I understand survivability of Infiltration seems low..how about adding a gap closing ability to the tree to bring up to par with Kinetic?
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I like the replies on here but what people seem to be mentioning in most of their posts revolves around one build...kinetic.....which seems to be the only viable build on here... I understand survivability of Infiltration seems low..how about adding a gap closing ability to the tree to bring up to par with Kinetic?

 

I noticed this as well. It seems that an overwhelming number of shadows are kinetic specced. I don't have any issues with my survivability as an infiltration shadow, but only because I can stealth up to targets and strike first. In PvP this isn't always the case...I'm sure everyone has had a BH or agent kite them a few times, especially when there's more than one.

 

I have no idea what focus builds do. I don't think many people even use it.

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Snares and why I feel they provide no benefit.....

 

Maybe I am just squishy but it is often me wanting to get away not get to. I often find myself getting crushed and my damage not near to what I am getting hit with. So ya let me slow them down so I can catch them. Sure! Now maybe if I was Kenetic spec I would sing a different toon. I am speced Infiltration so I only assume squishy goes along with the spec.

 

Similar to how squishy a DPS Marauder is for the Sith. I do hope they roll out dual spec soon. Then I will really be able to compare and see what I like the most. Now much of a damage loss should I expect going Kenetic? Similar to a Jugg? Yes I have a 50 Jugg as well and not happy with the PVP DPS but I can take a huge beating.

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Snares and why I feel they provide no benefit.....

 

Maybe I am just squishy but it is often me wanting to get away not get to. I often find myself getting crushed and my damage not near to what I am getting hit with. So ya let me slow them down so I can catch them. Sure! Now maybe if I was Kenetic spec I would sing a different toon. I am speced Infiltration so I only assume squishy goes along with the spec.

 

Similar to how squishy a DPS Marauder is for the Sith. I do hope they roll out dual spec soon. Then I will really be able to compare and see what I like the most. Now much of a damage loss should I expect going Kenetic? Similar to a Jugg? Yes I have a 50 Jugg as well and not happy with the PVP DPS but I can take a huge beating.

 

Kinetic is most common right now because it is the most forgiving. Infil and balance require more finess when it comes to engaging an opponent.

 

I would say kinetic is less dps loss than a tank spec'd jugg. Id say juggs can take a slightly bigger beating though with their cds

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Not that I think we need one as I feel the mobility is good already. Huttball can be frustrating because we don't have one that can travel planes and we would probably have too much mobility on flat surfaces if we got one.

 

But if we did I would really like it to be similar to this ability:

 

http://www.torhead.com/ability/blj4l8c/shadow-strike

 

Some Jedi Mobs in Correlia have it. Obviously the cooldown would have to be adjusted and what-not, but it's basically a "Shadow Step" for anyone that played WoW. Would be a very cool ability to have.

 

Theres a lot of cool abilities that npcs have yet got nerfed out in beta.

 

Project Storm (channel)

Spinning Strike (channel)

Shadow Step (blink)

Force Slam

The relatively high Armor Pen stance kira/nadia get.

 

Hopefully some of those make it back in again. Id like to see shadows get the blink mostly.

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The only time where closing the gap becomes difficult for me is in Hutball due to the platforms. It helps to always start high and only go down a level if you absolutely have to. It's always better to be a level too high and be doing nothing then a level too low and not be able to reach a carrier when you need to.

 

I'm copnstantly amazed as a healer at the number of melee I can draw down into the pit fighting for that killing blow, best CC in Huttball.

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