Humankeg Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 The issue: not engaging in combat for extended periods of time, and remaining in combat for upwards 30s, thus not being able to self heal. This forces non-healing classes to sit idly for extended durations, OR re-engage in combat low on life. My suggestions: Primary: Have combat drop after a static 6 seconds. No more staying in combat for upwards 30s. Second: Give each non-healing class an in combat heal. 1.5s cast, heals for 5% per heal. This heal is much too weak to use while engaged in combat, as free attacks will hit for more than this can heal. This heal will NOT count towards healing in WZ's, thus there will not be any issues with medals (similar to medpacks). Third: Allow the out of combat, channeled self heal that every class has, to be used while in combat, at 1/3 effectiveness, and NOT allow it to restore class resource. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humankeg Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 Still needing that ever important combat heal, or for combat to actually... drop. Its really imbalanced being stuck in combat even though not participating in it for upwards 30+ seconds, being stuck in combat, even though my target vanished to run off and heal, and being stuck in combat (and on fire) when respawning in spawn rooms, being stuck in combat waiting to heal myself, while other classes can and do heal themselves and re-enter the fight with in only a couple seconds. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarai Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 It's a distance thing. Until you're far enough off, you're still "in combat", and legitimately so. Deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humankeg Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 It's a distance thing. Until you're far enough off, you're still "in combat", and legitimately so. Deal with it. So what healing class do you play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarai Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 So what healing class do you play? Got a Combat Medic going. Oh, I'm sorry, did you not think that someone could disagree with you from that standpoint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humankeg Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) Got a Combat Medic going. Oh, I'm sorry, did you not think that someone could disagree with you from that standpoint? No, its just that you really don't realize (because you haven't experienced) the issues with sitting idly for half a minute, twiddling your thumbs becuase you can't drop combat. People that play nonhealing classes generally think a) combat needs to drop in a much more consistent manner and faster, b) non-healing classes need a self heal only useable in combat. Seeing as in a map like Huttball, you might actually need to run across the entire map just to drop combat. People vanish from combat, and don't re-engage you at all, and you are stuck in combat. Hell, just buffing yourself can put you into combat for an extended period of time and that is a real issue in smaller, more compact maps (Huttball, Voidstar). Healing classes can also heal themselves right away, re-enter combat at full life in a relatively short time span; where as non-healing classes are still waiting to drop combat. This creates a terrible imbalance in WZ's on which class is prefered.. Right now, the choice for non healing classes is: run across the map to drop combat (takes a long time); hide until you drop combat (takes a very long time); or run back into combat with a small fraction of health, only to die. For healing classes the choice is: use your "oh shiz" button and run to heal, re-enter combat shortly after with full life; hide and heal, re-enter combat shortly after with full life. Bad game design in which half the classes need to sit afk for upwards 30+ seconds doing nothing hoping the person they are in combat with moves far enough awway. I am not asknig for in combat buffs. I am asking for the same quality of life as healing classes: to not sit idly for up to 30 seconds waiting to drop combat. Edited February 28, 2012 by Humankeg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowOfVey Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 I don't know that I agree with 6 seconds, but I do agree it should be a little shorter than it is. This is also a bigger problem for operatives (and assassins, though they rely on it much less) who have increased difficulty in entering stealth in warzone situations without blowing their stealth cooldown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humankeg Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 I don't know that I agree with 6 seconds, but I do agree it should be a little shorter than it is. This is also a bigger problem for operatives (and assassins, though they rely on it much less) who have increased difficulty in entering stealth in warzone situations without blowing their stealth cooldown. Stealth classes shouldn't have huge issues re-entering stealth, especially since they (mostly ops) are some what balanced around opening from stealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarai Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) No, its just that you really don't realize (because you haven't experienced) the issues with sitting idly for half a minute, twiddling your thumbs becuase you can't drop combat. People that play nonhealing classes generally think a) combat needs to drop in a much more consistent manner and faster, b) non-healing classes need a self heal only useable in combat. My Sentinel, my Gunslinger, and my Assassin tank came first, so don't try that one either. I really don't get this weird idea you haev about how easy it is to disengage. Guess what: In PvP especially, 6 seconds doesn't mean you're done fighting. You should absolutely not be able to kick into your OOC heal just because I'm CC'd for that long or you managed to duck and weave around enough. Edited February 28, 2012 by Inarai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MashTactics Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 Stealth classes shouldn't have huge issues re-entering stealth, especially since they (mostly ops) are some what balanced around opening from stealth. Actually, it's a bigger issue for them than it is for you. Their combat opener can only be used from stealth, meaning that not only is their recovery gimped, but they can't even DPS at maximum when they're stuck in combat all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humankeg Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 Actually, it's a bigger issue for them than it is for you. Their combat opener can only be used from stealth, meaning that not only is their recovery gimped, but they can't even DPS at maximum when they're stuck in combat all the time. Let me rephrase: I am of the mindset that stealth classes shouldn't have much trouble re-entering stealth, rather than what it is now, where they most of the time can only re-enter by using their vanish ability. And again, combat really should drop much more consistently and quicker. 30 seconds with my thumb up my A** is bad game design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terminova Posted February 28, 2012 Share Posted February 28, 2012 It's a distance thing. Until you're far enough off, you're still "in combat", and legitimately so. Deal with it. This And I play a Sith Marauder who runs around with Vette 99% of the time. If death is that much of an issue....I have a stack of medpacks handy that mobs have been nice enough to leave behind after being run through with a lightsaber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humankeg Posted February 28, 2012 Author Share Posted February 28, 2012 This And I play a Sith Marauder who runs around with Vette 99% of the time. If death is that much of an issue....I have a stack of medpacks handy that mobs have been nice enough to leave behind after being run through with a lightsaber. Using a medpack when not currently engaged in combat is just stupid, and something only bad player do. Medpacks have a fair cool down, so they should be used when needed, when in combat. When not in combat, you should use your OOC heal. I will NOT put my medpack on cd if I am not currently engaged in a fight. And if I am running low on health during a fight, I use it. There for using it again to replenish my health when out of combat, is literally impossible to do anyways. The problem is being stuck in combat while not actually in combat and not being able to use the OOC heal. So either an incombat heal needs to be added for all classes (self heal only), or combat needs to drop in a more consistent manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KahnyaGnorc Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 It's a distance thing. Until you're far enough off, you're still "in combat", and legitimately so. Deal with it. I agree with this. My main is a Guardian who has Kira (melee dps) out almost exclusively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humankeg Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 I agree with this. My main is a Guardian who has Kira (melee dps) out almost exclusively. You do realize this change is more for PvP right? Who cares what companion you have out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obzenia Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) You do realize this change is more for PvP right? Who cares what companion you have out. I thought this was to reduce your downtime with mobs? If it's for pvp then I completely disagree. If you're "on-fire" and "not in combat", I'm sorry to say that you're still in combat taking damage. It's called a DoT... meant to keep you in combat so that you cannot OOC heal, or use your OOC sprint, or regen force or whatever other resource you have. /not signed EDIT: WZs do have in combat heals, they're scattered around the map. If someone got to it before you did, tough luck. Edited March 15, 2012 by Obzenia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fallenellaf Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 okay I see your problem and I had some personal expirience but I will go with the "This is not an issue" line cause I do believe that 30 seconds is a fare amount of time for reasons that should be obvious. But since we are here, the only one of your suggestions I would go with is the third. In combat regain life with the channeling heal each class got with the penalty of healing 1/3 of total life over 15 seconds Other two suggestions didnt win my heart tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humankeg Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 I thought this was to reduce your downtime with mobs? If it's for pvp then I completely disagree. If you're "one-fire" and "not in combat", I'm sorry to say that you're still in combat taking damage. It's called a DoT... meant to keep you in combat so that you cannot OOC heal, or use your OOC sprint, or regen force or whatever other resource you have. /not signed EDIT: WZs do have in combat heals, they're scattered around the map. If someone got to it before you did, tough luck. No, its a: "I just was able to escape from combat, I have 1000 life left, yet I can't drop combat for another 30 seconds and have to sit and hide and twiddle my thumbs waiting to drop combat" issue. It has nothing to do with mobs. With mobs, combat drops consistently: kill mobs, drop out of combat. In pvp, its completely inconsistent, where someone you are fighting can vanish, and you are still stuck in combat for 10 seconds after. In pvp, you can be fighting a group of people, manage to escape, and have to wait upwards 30 seconds just to drop combat, then have to heal up. Where healing classes can just run around the corner, heal up, and re-enter combat very quickly. On top of that, incombat heals are usable by everyone, and are not always there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
System_TOR Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 Totally agree with the Op, except I think 10 seconds would be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darzk Posted February 29, 2012 Share Posted February 29, 2012 To some extent, I think that the ooc timer in pvp needs to be tweaked. Shortened, sure, but not to anything less than 10-15 seconds, and DoTs should stay as they are. I play a sorc primarily, and its not a huge issue for me, but often I find the better tactic is *not* to dot the other guy, just kill the guy im working on when I need to regain force - once you kill the only people you have engaged you drop combat instantly. Playing as a marauder, I have also noticed some times where I need to heal yet someone has engaged me and then ran away. TBH, this is not *that* common of an occurance. I am forced to rely on teammates healing me while I play the DPS role... oh wait, thats the point of WZs. Teamwork. Frankly, the only time the OOC timer is a real issue is when I'm playing on my own, not in a group, and some jerk has dotted and ran (in which case even if im ooc the heal would be interrupted so often as to be almost worthless anyways) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humankeg Posted February 29, 2012 Author Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) Playing as a marauder, I have also noticed some times where I need to heal yet someone has engaged me and then ran away. TBH, this is not *that* common of an occurance. I am forced to rely on teammates healing me while I play the DPS role... oh wait, thats the point of WZs. Teamwork. ) I dont' get it. Its supposed to be "teamwork" so that you need to rely on someone else to heal you on one toon, but when you swap to a healing capable toon it doesn't need to involve team work because you can heal yourself? No, same rules need to apply for each class. healing classes can disengage from a fight, remain in combat, and return shortly with full life. Non healing clases can disengage a fight, and either need to return to it short on health, or wait a long, long time to be able to bring themselves back to full. This is horrible game design, hands down, and such a massive imbalance in team composition during wz's. Essentially any time a non-healing class needs to be healed, that team loses a player for 30+ seconds, just so they can run far away to drop combat, then channel the OOC, then have to run all the way back into the fight. While healing classes simply can round a corner, heal in a few seconds, and re-enter a fight. If people can not see how significantly this affects balance in WZ's, then you just simply aren't familiar with game balance. Edited March 1, 2012 by Humankeg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inarai Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 You do realize this change is more for PvP right? Who cares what companion you have out. *Notes that the term PvP doesn't show up at all in the OP* You didn't frame it as a PvP issue, so if that's what you're trying to highlight it's your own fault if people don't get that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vadarios Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 Hmmm sooo you want to be able to out DPS healers, have an in combat heal and drop combat so you don't need a healer to heal you in a WZ. Sounds good. Lets just drop healers altogether.... ugh.... My guess is you're one of the guys who doesn't protect the squishy healers... Try BEING a healer in a WZ. If you get marked, your life expectancy goes WAAAAY down. If you're a tank, throw a guard on them. They'll reciprocate by healing you. Warzones are about team play. You streak in attack, and leave the healer there holding the bag. No surprise you can't get healed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vadarios Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) You like heals, roll a healer. Do WZ's and tell me after they catch you green, that you won't end up being target #1. My healer dies WAAAAAAY more than my DPSer(if I'm not guarded, and healing the tank). And gets fewer medals. There's no reason to have that extra healing in WZ's. How much more unbalanced would it be if the tank whom I can already keep up can also pop off his own heals while I'm dropping a quick heal to myself. Realistically you asked for each of those things I just simply combined them. If your healer is running off to go heal himself, then he wasn't being properly protected, or you should be happy he did, because healers keep you up. Healer dies group dies shortly after. Your OP did not state "OR" as you say. Primary Secondary Third It can be interpreted any way, and can be taken as I overly dramatized. Perhaps rather than berating people saying they cannot read you need to take a course in how to effectively convey your message. For example to correctly convey what you were specifically trying to say, could have said: "The issue: During PVP not engaging in combat for extended periods of time, and remaining in combat for upwards 30s..." and "My suggestion would be one of the following:" I know these may be above your education level, but they do change how your OP comes across. Edited March 2, 2012 by Vadarios Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xyloh Posted March 2, 2012 Share Posted March 2, 2012 (edited) After reading most of this thread and then reading the Op's sig... I'm confused lol Sorry I don't agree with you on this one. There are medpacs and stims, and hopefully if you are staying on objectives and not fighting 1v1 on the side, a healer will be near you to help keep you up. Just make sure the heals aren't getting hit and we do pretty well taking care of you. Edited March 2, 2012 by xyloh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts