SammuelSK Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) what do u want 100% uptime on ur target? Aren't you a hybrid spec sorc? Oh right.. THAT's balanced... Operatives not being forced to run, slowly, back up from the pit.. well.. that would just be gamebreaking. Anyway, don't want to repeat myself but maybe it'll drive the point home, my sniper gets to do more damage then my Operative ever did at a longer range and not have to worry about being knocked back, rooted, with a much more effective defense mechanic and never have to deal with the games numerous positioning errors. Looking from the outside in, and having played the class before, I can say without a doubt they need serious love because they are laughable in their current state.. best suited for finishing off a kill someone else started. Edited February 22, 2012 by SammuelSK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyHalo Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Aren't you a hybrid spec sorc? Oh right.. THAT's balanced... Operatives not being forced to run, slowly, back up from the pit.. well.. that would just be gamebreaking. Anyway, don't want to repeat myself but maybe it'll drive the point home, my sniper gets to do more damage then my Operative ever did at a longer range and not have to worry about being knocked back, rooted, with a much more effective defense mechanic and never have to deal with the games numerous positioning errors. Looking from the outside in, and having played the class before, I can say without a doubt they need serious love because they are laughable in their current state.. best suited for finishing off a kill someone else started. I've seen good ops/scoundrels take out 4 people. They don't need anything but another nerf. Don't allow ops/scoundrels back in combat for 8 seconds following a vanish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbadisbad Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I've seen good ops/scoundrels take out 4 people. They don't need anything but another nerf. Don't allow ops/scoundrels back in combat for 8 seconds following a vanish. Taking out 4 bad players =/= class balance Operatives do not neeed a nerf because they bring nothing to the team that another class can't provide. They need buffs, starting with the huge cooldowns/requirements on their bread and butter skills imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SammuelSK Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 I've seen good ops/scoundrels take out 4 people. They don't need anything but another nerf. Don't allow ops/scoundrels back in combat for 8 seconds following a vanish. I've seen my buddy's jugg instantly drop three people in a hit. I've seen a sorc do close to 1,000,000 damage. I've seen snipers do 60-70 kills a match. Every match. I've seen a sorc healer shrug off four people beating on him and not die. I've seen a BH top damage and kills with just one key on their quickslot bar, just spamming the same attack repeatedly. And the list goes on and on... why don't we just nerf them all. Without context its easy to say anyone is OP. In the context of THIS discusssion the fact still remains, properly played and verses equally skilled opponents, Operatives are nowhere near as effective as other damage dealing classes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choppaman Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Yeah let's give 'em charge too. Oh and more stuns, how about a sprint as well? Of course more damage to go along with that. Why don't we just give you guys a free class change to an assassin? How about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cwild Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 It would just be nice if we got an ability that made us immune to knockbacks for like 4-5 seconds. It would solve all issues IMHO. 30 second cooldown, or hell just tie it to evasion....seeing as it would make sense, (evading the knockback) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirPayne Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Operatives feels like an incomplete class, quickly hacked together before release with obvious design flaws. I play mostly as medic but respec concealment from time to time, till i can't stand the overall clunky gameplay that class suffers from. It just feels like there is missing something. For example playing as concealment spec i have no basic melee attack, holding a knife in my hand and when all special attacks are on cooldown i have to get out my RIFLE in melee range and shoot someone in the face. That doesn't make any sense at all. A missing gap closer surely adds to the list among other silly things, like eviscerate not working on players. Or what's with the rediculous 10 seconds no healing restriction when we use our escape ability with a rather long 2 minutes cooldown? Do sorcs/sages get any drawbacks using any of their escape tools? It's the sum of all these little flaws that playing operative more of a meh experience. Playing medic also feels like there is missing something, namely utility. In a huttball game i have absolutely nothing to offer compared to a sorc/sage. Why did they give all the utility to those classes and not spread it equaly between others? AOE knockback on 30 seconds cooldown, a sprint on 30 seconds cooldown, a bubble on shorter cooldown which also can be casts on others and lasts longer, a pull friendly players ability, a ranged stun, a ranged cc that does not require any setup. They just got it all. It wouldn't be so bad if we would have a niche where we could shine, but sadly there is none. It's time to make the class complete. Edited February 22, 2012 by SirPayne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexdaphnis Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 What amuse me is most of negative posts here comes from sorcs/mercs/sage/commando that wants badly their counter class to stay weak and feel pro forever without any real challenge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antilogical Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 What do you have to say Mr. Georg Zoeller? HMMMMMM? Arn't you supposed to be taking care of these things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oblongship Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 First off, this is not a thread made to whine about the changes made to Operatives in pvp. Personally, I think a slightly lower damage hidden strike is a fair trade with the buff jarring strike was given to not fill the resolve bar. An issue I do feel needs addressed however is the lack of a gap closing power for Operatives, specifically concealment. If you look at the other melee classes, they all have some sort of skill that allows them to get in a ranged dps' face more quickly (Force Charge, Jet Charge, Grapple, Force Speed, etc). Operatives have two talents that provide movement speed increases, but one requires us to use Debilitate on a target (our best stun), and the other requires us to burn out best defensive cooldown (Cloaking Screen). The other melee classes do not have similar drawbacks built into their gap closers, and only Jet Charge requires a talent. Here is my suggestion: 1) Switch Meticulously Kept Blades and Culling in the Concealment talent tree. 2) Roll Acid Blade and Culling into one talent. It would still be a 3 point talent, and points invested beyond the first would only increase the damage dealt to poisoned targets (1%/2%/3%). 3) Create a new 31 point talent similar to Shadowstep used by rogues in that other game whose name cannot be spoken. The range would be equal to that of the other gap closers, and the operative would end up behind his or her target. Now, before anyone says "Stealth is your gap closer, that talent would be overpowered!", I would like to point out that the other stealthy melee class not only has a gap closer in the form of a sprint, but also has an AoE knockback. I am suggesting Operatives sacrifice the utility of a knockback in order to have a skill that would bring them more into line with the other melee classes when outside of stealth. Any thoughts are appreciated, and yes I can feel the flames at my back as I finish typing this. Cheers! Um...You do realize your cover mechanic (not cover in place) works as a gap closer...you roll pretty fast to places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leszor Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Yeah, and those "places" are not everywhere, cover roll its something we happen to use once in a while, when the chance presents.... come on, your target must be running away from you next to a crate or another piece of cover, does this seem, realistically, something you can count on? Not only that, but any decent player will simply avoid moving next to covers when fleeing from an op/sc, actively denying your only gimmicky closer, so yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapto Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Um...You do realize your cover mechanic (not cover in place) works as a gap closer...you roll pretty fast to places. Very clunky mechanic and unreliable. Someone already also mentioned there are not cover spots to roll to all around the map to go where your heart desires. Just give us a 30s - 60s Shadowstep and be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaosmagistrate Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 As cool as Shadowstep is, and I'm not a huge lore kind of guy, but does teleporting smugglers even fit the SW universe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mongrul Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Operative: -Worst healer in the game -Worst stealther in the game -Worst DPS in the game -NO utility in Huttball hi ignorant guy. cya around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natharon Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 you got it right you will be lucky to get a 3.5k crit off with maul lol operatives are still dishing out 4k to 6k spamms lol wat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spifnar Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 The problem with Ops is mostly huttball. The bridges make knockbacks (and therefore knockback immunity) excessively good. An Op is horrible in Huttball compared to the other classes. My Op was mostly fine to play in other WZs. It took a lot of attention to detail to manage energy, TA, cooldowns, and restealthing but it was workable. The best idea I've seen is the grappling hook. Basically a charge-to-area. Give it a 1.5s cast time. Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ich_Bin Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 hi ignorant guy. cya around hi friendly guy. thank you for your detailed insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaodon Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Simple fix: - increase their snare ability to 30m range, lower cooldown to 3 secs (every other shot), and slightly increase the energy cost to balance it. Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbadisbad Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Simple fix: - increase their snare ability to 30m range, lower cooldown to 3 secs (every other shot), and slightly increase the energy cost to balance it. Done. Then you realize this would be incredibly OP and wouldn't fix the problem... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaosmagistrate Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Simple fix: - increase their snare ability to 30m range, lower cooldown to 3 secs (every other shot), and slightly increase the energy cost to balance it. Done. Um...I play an SC and if this were to be implemented, I'd expect this to cost at least 50 energy, preferably more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaodon Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Um...I play an SC and if this were to be implemented, I'd expect this to cost at least 50 energy, preferably more. Whatever, my point stands. 30m range, use it more often but at a cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cruxe Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) Stealth is your gap closer. /winthread Edited February 23, 2012 by Cruxe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tinboy Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Stealth is your gap closer. /winthread Stealth is not a gap closer. You open on the guy with your opener and you get knocked back. You cannot restealth in combat unless you use your incombat stealth which has a long CD. On a further note though, I don't think operatives/scoundrels need a gap closer. Many people seem to forget we have this skill called "Tendon Blast" for scoundrels (dunno what it's called for operatives) and also "flurry of bolts" while closing your distance. If you think your opponent is going to knock you back. Use your tendon blast right before so after the initial knockback, you can actually close your distance while using flurry of bolts without them running away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffor Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Yeah god forbid a stealth class have to work for a kill in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsdad Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Last time I played my scoundrel he had stealth as a form of gap closing and tendon blast as reliable snare... Oh, I'm being kited... Let me just slip back into stealth to catch them... Wha! I can't stealth in combat? ***? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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