A Gap Closer for Operatives

[AetherMcLoud]

Fair enough...except the part that u have pretty much good CC while the "sprinting shadow/assassin" does not...u have ranged attacks =) and moving behind a target u would kill with 3-4 stabs rendering him useless....answer is no,sir,just no

 

Um what? Assassins/Shadows have:

 

30 meter 4 seconds stun (1 min cd)

30 meter 8 seconds mez (1 min cd)

Melee mez (15 seconds cd, talented)

Knockdown (30 seconds CD, stealth only, can be talented to be usable without stealth)

The same stealth-CC that Operatives/Scoundrels have (1 minute in pve, 8 seconds im pvp)

AOE Knockback (20 seconds CD)

AOE Slow (talented, 7 seconds CD)

 

That's a whole lot of CC, plus force sprint.

 

Also nobody gets killed in "3-4 stabs" when they are at equal gear level. On my Powertech I simply laugh at Operatives, they stun me for a while with their opening rotation and then they simply die when I turn around.

Edited March 14, 2012 by AetherMcLoud

[Orangerascal]

Wow, now it does 550. Muuuuuuuch better

 

Gratz on fighting noobs in greens.

 

Is anyone else really impressed with these numbers? On a "Burst class"

 

Do you really expect your 30m ability to do the same as your 4m ability? Now who is delusional? All I'm hearing is 'WAH WAH, I want my class to be OP, WAH WAH'. Like I said my flurry of bolts crits for about 1300 on a debuffed sorc, my same level. If your experiences vary than it's you. You also have thermal grenade and more importantly sabotage charge which hits as hard as shoot first.

 

I have no problems killing sorcs, sniper, or mercs that I've opened on even when punted. Even named players in full BM gear. But keep QQing and praying the 'bioware devs' give you a miracle. Let's see how that works out for you.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Barrechor]

I'm surprised you could even understand what I wrote since you did not have the reading comprehension to understand I was talking about the 30% armor debuff . Don't you feel silly now?

 

I've had flurry of bolts crit for 1300 on sorcs with the fletchett round debuff.

 

I understood perfectly what you wrote, it was just extremely stupid as you failed to make yourself clear in any way shape or form. I guess basic reading/writing comprehension isnt your strong point however.

 

Originally Posted by GrandMike

Ye, spamming basic attack that does 500 white damage always accomplishes a lot

 

You replied to that by saying:

 

It does more than 500 damage when flechette round is applied.

 

So who looks silly? Next time, add the word "Debuff" in there for utmost clarity, because the way in which you wrote it made out that Flechette round is some kind of miracle buff for FoB.

 

So now roll your eyes at your own stupidity.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Barrechor

[Orangerascal]

I understood perfectly what you wrote, it was just extremely stupid as you failed to make yourself clear in any way shape or form. I guess basic reading/writing comprehension isnt your strong point however.

 

You replied to that by saying:

 

So who looks silly? Next time, add the word "Debuff" in there for utmost clarity, because the way in which you wrote it made out that Flechette round is some kind of miracle buff for FoB.

 

So now roll your eyes at your own stupidity.

 

Umm ... No you didn't. Seeing as how the person I quoted understood it perfectly.

 

Anyone with 1/2 a brain could have inferred that the dps increase to flurry of bolts from Flechette round was the 30% armor debuff. You flamed for the sake of flaming and when got called out retraced your statement with the 'I understood perfectly what you wrote' excuse.

 

let's recap just how stupid your post was:

'I stopped reading there, as its perfectly clear that you are completely clueless.

 

Flechette round buffing the basic attack..... '

Edited March 14, 2012 by Orangerascal

[GrandMike]

Um what? Assassins/Shadows have:

 

30 meter 4 seconds stun (1 min cd)

30 meter 8 seconds mez (1 min cd)

Melee mez (15 seconds cd, talented)

Knockdown (30 seconds CD, stealth only, can be talented to be usable without stealth)

The same stealth-CC that Operatives/Scoundrels have (1 minute in pve, 8 seconds im pvp)

AOE Knockback (20 seconds CD)

AOE Slow (talented, 7 seconds CD)

 

That's a whole lot of CC, plus force sprint.

 

Also nobody gets killed in "3-4 stabs" when they are at equal gear level. On my Powertech I simply laugh at Operatives, they stun me for a while with their opening rotation and then they simply die when I turn around.

 

You forgot force slow, 12s slow on 6s CD

 

 

Do you really expect your 30m ability to do the same as your 4m ability? Now who is delusional? All I'm hearing is 'WAH WAH, I want my class to be OP, WAH WAH'. Like I said my flurry of bolts crits for about 1300 on a debuffed sorc, my same level. If your experiences vary than it's you. You also have thermal grenade and more importantly sabotage charge which hits as hard as shoot first.

 

Oh noes, operatives can spam 30m basic attack that does 550 damage (provided you have it buffed by AP), now you covinced everyone its all fine

 

And some assassins/shadows damaging skills can be extended to 30m, and they have plenty of 30m skills too.

 

Not that they really need them since they ALSO have GAP CLOSERS.

 

I have no problems killing sorcs, sniper, or mercs that I've opened on even when punted. Even named players in full BM gear. But keep QQing and praying the 'bioware devs' give you a miracle. Let's see how that works out for you.

 

Being BM and have BM gear means nothing in the end. Everyone can grind WZs for that. In fact i said already that Ilum kill trading is OK since it brings more BM terribads to PvP.

 

And i have no problem:

 

1) escaping operative that opened on me

2) return and proceed to kill that same operative

 

on my sage.

 

We already know you play against terribads and use that as some kind of exmple. Just the other day i solo defended door in voidstar against 3 players by just throwing thermal grenade while standing unstealthed behind a pillar for good 3-4 minutes.

Now you can use that example oh how "scoundrels are fine" rofl.

Edited March 14, 2012 by GrandMike

[Orangerascal]

Oh noes, operatives can spam 30m basic attack that does 550 damage (provided you have it buffed by AP), now you covinced everyone its all fine

 

Among other things ... I'm really sorry you have only 5 abilities on your hotbar. Someday you'll get there don't worry, it just takes time.

 

on my sage. We already know you play against terribads and use that as some kind of exmple. Just the other day i solo defended door in voidstar against 3 players by just throwing thermal grenade while standing unstealthed behind a pillar for good 3-4 minutes.

Now you can use that example oh how "scoundrels are fine" rofl.

 

Scoundrels are fine ... again good luck convincing bioware they are not ... you about 2 weeks till 1.2. Seriously I don't mind being OP before rated warfronts. But if we don't get said buff, I won't cry about it like you do.

 

'wah wah'

Edited March 14, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Barrechor]

Umm ... No you didn't. Seeing as how the person I quoted understood it perfectly.

 

Anyone with 1/2 a brain could have inferred that the dps increase to flurry of bolts from Flechette round was the 30% armor debuff. You flamed for the sake of flaming and when got called out retraced your statement with the 'I understood perfectly what you wrote' excuse.

 

let's recap just how stupid your post was:

'I stopped reading there, as its perfectly clear that you are completely clueless.

 

Flechette round buffing the basic attack..... '

 

Wrong, your illiteracy let you down and now youre just scrambling, trying to save face. I did understand what you had written, I'ts not may fault you failed to explain yourself in any measurable way.

 

Flechette round benefits/buffs Shoot First and Backblast. The way in which you wrote your statement indicated that it also buffed FoB, which it does not.

 

Face it, you failed to get your point across clearly and concisely. Next time do a better job.

[GrandMike]

Among other things ... I'm really sorry you have only 5 abilities on your hotbar. Someday you'll get there don't worry, it just takes time.

 

 

 

Scoundrels are fine ... again good luck convincing bioware they are not ... you about 2 weeks till 1.2. Seriously I don't mind being OP before rated warfronts. But if we don't get said buff, I won't cry about it like you do.

 

'wah wah'

 

They aready said they are making adjustements to ALL classes.

[Orangerascal]

They aready said they are making adjustements to ALL classes.

 

All I'm saying is ... you're in for a surprise

Edited March 14, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Orangerascal]

Wrong, your illiteracy let you down and now youre just scrambling, trying to save face. I did understand what you had written, I'ts not may fault you failed to explain yourself in any measurable way.

 

Flechette round benefits/buffs Shoot First and Backblast. The way in which you wrote your statement indicated that it also buffed FoB, which it does not.

 

Face it, you failed to get your point across clearly and concisely. Next time do a better job.

 

 

I'm just going to paste this here again, in yellow for everyone to see:

 

I stopped reading there, as its perfectly clear that you are completely clueless.

 

Flechette round buffing the basic attack.....

Edited March 14, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Barrechor]

I'm just going to paste this here again, in yellow for everyone to see:

 

Youre that stupid, youre completely missing the point. I guess you were at the back of the queue when God was handing out IQs.

[GrandMike]

All I'm saying is ... you're in for a surprise

 

What, youre "in the know" just like with "BW metrics" rofl

[Orangerascal]

Youre that stupid, youre completely missing the point. I guess you were at the back of the queue when God was handing out IQs.

 

I'm pretty sure you left out some 's there buddy.

 

What, youre "in the know" just like with "BW metrics" rofl

 

Mums the word. I'll see you in 1.2

Edited March 14, 2012 by Orangerascal

[Antilogical]

I think people are missing the point. A gap closer would make the class feel SOOOOO much more complete, fluid and enjoyable. I wouldn't mind if they took away Defib and Sever Tendon if they gave us a decent gap closer. I just think its odd that they didn't give and design this class around a gap closer in the first place.

 

It would also be worth mentioning that there is a good chance that they will nerf the Operatives burst damage, and buff their sustainable damage in 1.2, which would then make the idea of a gap closer more feasable, as staying with your target would be more of a priority.

[Howbadisbad]

So Orange, did you ever figure out how Operatives are better than Assassins in any way?

 

Don't try to say that Operatives have more burst again, because that has already been disproved by the video of the Assassin dealing 14k damage within one second without stealth.

[Fenomen]

What they really need to do is lower the Cooldown on the ranged snare and make the root proc have an internal cooldown.

 

Also up the Duration of the Knockdown by 0.5 Seconds.

 

Aside from Healing, low cooldown Stun and a nice CC in form of Flashbang, Assasins/Shadow are superior in every Way.

[Xaearth]

What they really need to do is lower the Cooldown on the ranged snare and make the root proc have an internal cooldown.

 

And how exactly would that help? The cooldown already matches the duration.

 

People cleansing it? We are only effective at targeting bads anyways so if they're intelligent enough to do that we've already lost.

[Howbadisbad]

What they really need to do is lower the Cooldown on the ranged snare and make the root proc have an internal cooldown.

 

Also up the Duration of the Knockdown by 0.5 Seconds.

 

Aside from Healing, low cooldown Stun and a nice CC in form of Flashbang, Assasins/Shadow are superior in every Way.

 

No, high damage and CC should not be on the same skill. You should have to choose to stun or do damage.

 

Operatives are currently a one trick pony, and they need to be reworked almost completely before they can be balanced on a competitive level.

 

 

Also, healing should be compared to healing classes, which means Operatives lose again because they are compared to Merc/Sorc.

 

15 second lower cd stun requires 2 talent points, and Assassins get a 30m range stun. and their 2 points lower the cd on their trinket by 15s

 

Assassins don't have flashbang, they have an AOE taunt instead, which is much better because it doesn't break on damage.

[CrunkShizzle]

Operatives are currently a one trick pony, and they need to be reworked almost completely before they can be balanced on a competitive level.

 

you must be seeing something im not then.operatives look fine to me,id guess that alot of the people complaining about them arent very knowledgable when it comes to pvp

 

but i dont know,the one thing ive looked at with operatives in star wars the old republic is for a stealth based rogue class that primarly uses behind your target attacks.they dont really seem to have a easy way of getting behind your target

Edited March 14, 2012 by CrunkShizzle

[Howbadisbad]

you must be seeing something im not then.operatives look fine to me,id guess that alot of the people complaining about them arent very knowledgable when it comes to pvp

 

but i dont know,the one thing ive looked at with operatives in star wars the old republic is for a stealth based rogue class that primarly uses behind your target attacks.they dont really seem to have a easy way of getting behind your target

 

Melee class with no gap closer

Worst sustained DPS in game

Above average burst from stealth

Lowest surviveability in game

Average ammounts of CC

 

 

 

Melee with no gap closer is the biggest problem.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Howbadisbad

[Sir_Toothless]

Melee class with no gap closer

Worst sustained DPS in game

Above average burst from stealth

Lowest surviveability in game

Average ammounts of CC

 

 

 

Melee with no gap closer is the biggest problem.

 

Honestly, there are 2 changes that would fix all of the pvp/pve problems the class has, without making them overpowered.

 

1 - The gap closer that I proposed a few pages back.

 

2 - The armor pen buff from flechette round should instead be a cureable armor rating debuff, so that it benefits all other friendlies who are attacking the same enemy. This change wouldn't make the OP overpowered in a 1v1 battle, and would actually make them worse in a 1v2+ battle, but would increase our over all effectiveness in team ganking and pve situations. Plus if the dubuff is cureable, then smart pvpers can still effectively counter a concealment Op.

 

But the second change is for a different thread.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Sir_Toothless

[Antilogical]

Honestly, there are 2 changes that would fix all of the pvp/pve problems the class has, without making them overpowered.

 

1 - The gap closer that I proposed a few pages back.

 

2 - The armor pen buff from flechette round should instead be a cureable armor rating debuff, so that it benefits all other friendlies who are attacking the same enemy. This change wouldn't make the OP overpowered in a 1v1 battle, and would actually make them worse in a 1v2+ battle, but would increase our over all effectiveness in team ganking and pve situations. Plus if the dubuff is cureable, then smart pvpers can still effectively counter a concealment Op.

 

But the second change is for a different thread.

 

The only problem I could see with your idea Sir_Toothless, is it would look very silly to see someone cover 30m of ground within a second by rolling. I like the mechanic, but I don't like the way you want to deliver it. Otherwise I like the idea, I think it just needs to be somthing different other then doing somersaults on the ground. I still kinda like my own idea, which is basically the same as yours, but allows you to travel vertically aswell.

[Sir_Toothless]

The only problem I could see with your idea Sir_Toothless, is it would look very silly to see someone cover 30m of ground within a second by rolling. I like the mechanic, but I don't like the way you want to deliver it. Otherwise I like the idea, I think it just needs to be somthing different other then doing somersaults on the ground. I still kinda like my own idea, which is basically the same as yours, but allows you to travel vertically aswell.

 

The vanguard 'storm' animation is pretty lame and not-believable, considering they can run though the air to the opponent.

But yeah, just a roll would be lame, but some sort of sprint + jump and roll would be fine with me.

 

I would like to see vertical movement too, but I could see that being exploited.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Sir_Toothless

[GrandMike]

I think people are missing the point. A gap closer would make the class feel SOOOOO much more complete, fluid and enjoyable. I wouldn't mind if they took away Defib and Sever Tendon if they gave us a decent gap closer. I just think its odd that they didn't give and design this class around a gap closer in the first place.

 

Class was designed to quicly kill any target from stealth and go back to stealth. It didnt really need gap closer.

 

With nerfs thats not viable any more, on my sage i can get away from operative/soundrel 100% of the time, and then just kite him unless he disengages.

 

Sever tendon is also crucial and roots are part of basically any other melee class.

 

It would also be worth mentioning that there is a good chance that they will nerf the Operatives burst damage, and buff their sustainable damage in 1.2, which would then make the idea of a gap closer more feasable, as staying with your target would be more of a priority.

 

Burst damage cant be nerfed any further unless other classes have burst reduced significantly. Its by far not highest burst ingame.

 

And by removing burst you have to make survivability considrably higher, just look at what assassins/marauders have in the name of survivability (alongside burst AND sustained damage they have).

Edited March 15, 2012 by GrandMike

[Lykurgus]

Love all the replies, have you ever played an OP. Cry all you want! YOUR CLASS IS NOT MEANT TO HAVE AN "I WIN BUTTON AGAINST EVERY OTHER CLASS". This game is not built around your OP being good at Hutt Ball (example). You can’t compare your class to dueling other Empire players in duels. The only comparison would be how do you do against republic mirror class. They took away the unique class thing back in beta and made us mirrors (didn’t say it’s not broken).

 

Oh! And to the idiot who says, You can't Spam Back Stab it’s on a 9 sec CD. Really well if so then explain this "when I get knocked down and I hear the excat same sound "backstab" 1 to 2 times before I ever stand up? And my health being affected. But it’s on a 9 sec CD. So it's another ability you have to hit with when someone is on the ground? Oh, ok then sorry I was wrong it's not backstab. So for me to say it was backstab is wrong. And then when I do stand up, I get knocked right back down again?

 

Ever think it's broke? Lag, Internet? There have been other games that spamming 1 button sends multi signals to the server regardless of the timer? No one ever wants to admit when they are playing a class that’s over powered. Everyone wants to be the best at playing games and not lose. Nothing you can say would change my opinion. Don’t you think I would love to just mow down people in my Tank? Or own face?

 

You’re mad your class got nerfed so you can't just 3 shot targets. Welcome to my world of being a Tank. Don't compare your class to Sorcs and Tanks. You’re not either; your class was designed to be a support class. 2 OP can devastate a Tank. Notice I didn't say Sith Tank? This aint WOW! You can't have it all; Ever think my class is broken? Or needs this? You cannot ever justify to me that OP need a gap closer...

 

Your class was O/P from the beginning and your use to be able to 3 shot targets because of the Surge Nerf you can't now! Troll away I won't lose any sleep

 

Its been a good few weeks since I read the pvp forums here. This post reminded me why I stopped coming here.

I have never read so much wilful and blatant ignorance in one place in my entire life. You clearly have no clue what so ever as to this class, or even pvp.

You are either a brilliant troll, a buthurt 12 year old or just plain, old fashioned stupid.

 

As to gap closers, I don’t play my OP in pvp anymore no point, huttball is just painfull for ops. These days I play a Jugg in pvp, so much better class for pvp.

 

I do however agree with the op of this thread. Ops need some loving, they were always the least played class and since the nerfs you just hardly ever see them anymore.

The main issue is ofc people like the moron I quoted above. They spout lies and bulls*it on these boards because they are simply to dense to deal with things on there own. So they cry for nerfs via lying about a class they simply don’t understand.