goulet Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 saying stealth is a gap closer, is like trying to sell someone a rectangle when they want to buy a square. Sure a square is a rectangle, but a rectangle isn't always a square. It can close gaps, but only if the person is coming towards you, not moving, or moving in the same area. Now lets look at other classes gap closers (melee ac's/ac's with melee) -Bounty hunter: grapple 45 to 35 second cd, powertech only. -Warrior: charge: 15 second cd, can be reset by juggs with force push, marauders have no push. They additionally have impale (shared tree), and intercede(jugg). -Assassin: force speed 30 second cd, mid ranged cc. -Operative: combat vanish 2 to 2 and a half minutes. Seems odd that other melee classes have rather frequently accessible abilities to return them to their ideal position for doing damage. additionally all of those other classes have inherent defensive abilities (non spec) which can aid in closing the gap, an operative can avoid 1 attack, and use a shield that reduces damage but doesn't mitigate it entirely like sorc. Operatives can heal, but as dps spec you have no inherent increased ability to heal, not to mention you have to not move to do so, hardly the best gap closer. its hard to find one other class that a knockback +slow, or that simply finds itself being attacked by a ranged class (typically with some environmental advantage: elevation) and its only option is either to run/walk back to them, or pray your vanish is available for use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hulkweazel Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) As someone who has played a PT, Op, Sorc, and Assassin, Op is by far the worst designed class out of that group. There is absolutely no cohesion in the abilities or in the trees. Really it seems like a 15 minute job that the devs had to finish up so that they could get back to giving Sorcs cool new abilities. Unfortunately Ops are the Druid or Paladin of SWTOR, the class the devs don't care about and just put together to fit a deadline. Edited March 9, 2012 by hulkweazel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbadisbad Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Melee DPS without a gap closer = Doomed to fail in high skill level PvP This rule holds true in all games where kiting is possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entropicus Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 If stealth is a gap closer why does Blizzard give rogues Shadowstep and Feral Druids Pounce? Just sayin... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinemetu Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 They could always give us some sort of snare or another type of utility on or rifle shot, similar to what powertechs get in two of their trees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drduncan Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I'm confident we'll get something in 1.2 that will help. Fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ich_Bin Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I'm confident we'll get something in 1.2 that will help. Fingers crossed. I am not so sure. I think we will have to wait until when rated warzones have been running for a few weeks. Then it will be obvious how bad Operatives/Scoundrels are doing and after that it will probably take a couple of more weeks/months for the developers to fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kheldras Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 -Gap closer like a stealth-Sprint. -A sustained skillable damage skill for PvE viability, giving upper hand... Functioning like Blasterwhip to 10M, including giving upper hand... Maybe trait Quickshot to give upper hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antilogical Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) I just made a suggestion in the Smuggler forums for a gap closer. Let me know what you think: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=3338870#post3338870 I LOVE this idea. Kind of a mixture between the Warrior/Knight gap closer and the Inquisitor/Consular gap closer. Though I think I can improve on it a bit more. Flashwarp Instant Energy: 40 Cooldown: 1m 00s Range: 30m Based on old Hypergate technology. Teleports the Operative to the designated location and snares all targets within a 5-meter radius for 1 second. This ability does not break stealth Let me know what you guys think. I tried to make the ability a balanced as possible by giving it a 1 minute cooldown and a high energy use, though it is a very robust ability and measures would have to be put in placed so this isn't abused in Huttball, but it would give Operatives and Scoundrels a fighting chance. Edited March 11, 2012 by Antilogical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRINnBARRETT Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 So basically it comes down to this: You think you deserve the following: The ability to control the beginning of every battle by opening from stealth. The ability to chain stun in order to get your priority list/rotation off. The ability to have enough burst to face a guy at 33% health after the opening move. The ability to reset the fight any time of your choosing via cloak screen/disappearing act. The ability to stun & heal (even if not specced into the heal tree) at any time once initial resolve wears off. The ability to cloak, stealth stun, and Recuperate. And now you want a gap closer...I suppose I should give you props for actively lobbying for your class but really? You're serious? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRINnBARRETT Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Let me know what you guys think. I tried to make the ability a balanced as possible by giving it a 1 minute cooldown and a high energy use, though it is a very robust ability and measures would have to be put in placed so this isn't abused in Huttball, but it would give operatives and scoundrels a fighting chance. So you want the ability to teleport away (ala the Riftstalkers in RIFT & the Warlocks in WoW) from danger every 60 seconds...... Why am I even reading this thread...it's lost all credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ich_Bin Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 So you want the ability to teleport away (ala the Riftstalkers in RIFT & the Warlocks in WoW) from danger every 60 seconds...... Why am I even reading this thread...it's lost all credibility. Piece of advice: Play an Operative first (preferable past 50 in Huttball), reply later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryotknife Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 If stealth is a gap closer why does Blizzard give rogues Shadowstep and Feral Druids Pounce? Just sayin... pounce? i think you meant feral charge cat, which was buggy as hell and useless as a gap closer, nor was it an ability that druids even wanted. i mean, feral charge cat wasnt on the druids top 100 list of things they want. also, shadowstep wasnt introduced till the first expansion, down a tree that had the least amount of damage (at the time, much later subtelty became a burst tree) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hulkweazel Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Piece of advice: Play an Operative first (preferable past 50 in Huttball), reply later Why do people need to do that? Obviously people that have no experience playing an Op are experts at the class because they saw this one guy on a random server put up 7 trillion damage and 45 billion healing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryotknife Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Piece of advice: Play an Operative first (preferable past 50 in Huttball), reply later so....spend hundreds of hours leveling/playing a class before you can comment, leaving balance in the hands of people are are clearly biased in their opinion. great idea! /sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antilogical Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 So you want the ability to teleport away (ala the Riftstalkers in RIFT & the Warlocks in WoW) from danger every 60 seconds...... Why am I even reading this thread...it's lost all credibility. Considering that EVERY other melee class has a gap closer (Force Speed for Inquisitors and Shadows, Force Leap for Warriors and Knights, Grapple for Powertechs) the two former of which have far shorter cooldowns then of what i'm proposing for Operatives and Scoundrels. Not to meantion the fact that they can also have additional effects such as interrupts, stuns and the ability cleanse all movement-impairing effects when talented. Ranged classes on the other hand can simply do what they do best, attack targets from a range. The gap closer shouln't have that big of an impact on them, as if were in stealth, they would not be able to see us, and our element of suprise, rotataion and burst damage would act as normal. However if the ranged class COULD see us, our powerful burst abilities would be of little use and we would be forced to fight them 1 on 1, when operatives are at thier weakest. So until you roll an Operative and get him to level 50, I think it is you that needs some 'credibility'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ich_Bin Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 so....spend hundreds of hours leveling/playing a class before you can comment, leaving balance in the hands of people are are clearly biased in their opinion. great idea! /sarcasm There are a lot of people who have 2 or more characters at lvl 50. I would never comment on a class that I don't know very well and try to get it nerfed. This board would be a much better place if everyone did the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adzzy Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 (edited) No, that Assassin was doing it wrong. There is no reason Assassin should lose to Operative if they both start out of stealth other than skill/gear difference. If you think Operatives have DPS on par with Assassin then you are going against the general consensus of the hardcore PvE community. Do you understand that's because energy isn't as easy to manage as force when you're dealing with something that has millions of hitpoints and you're expected to do about 300-600k of it, as opposed to a player with 17-19k? In pvp, especially as stealthers you can dump cd after cd and can drain yourself over a 15 second window and then live to fight another day, in pve you do that and you're worthless. Edited March 11, 2012 by Adzzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fatty_The_Walrus Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 As a Operative Healer, I would rather have a gap opener! Give me a knock back PLEASE!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antilogical Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 As a Operative Healer, I would rather have a gap opener! Give me a knock back PLEASE!! The ability that I proposed would work as a gap opener too, as it does not require you to have a target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaperChamp Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Lets face it, Huttball is a lame game to begin with. What were the developers thinking when they designed a map that clearly favors classes that have knockback and pull? The most critical moments in the game take place on the ramps. All a player with a half a brain has to do is either A) Knock you into the fire or B) knock you off the ramp. It is difficult to position yourself to avoid both of these scenarios. If an operative gets knocked off the ramp, there is no way to get back into the action and help your team. In other words, concealment Ops are useless in huttball when compared to other classes. I don't understand why BW would create a map with hazards and give some classes abilities that allow them to use the environment to their advantage and exclude other classes. This game is not very well balanced when Huttball is concerned and it makes me hate playing it. I think most balance issues stem from the Huttball map more than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slurmez Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I agree operatives and smugglers should have a gap closer, and lose all ranged abilities to trade off for it. Whiney people just want everything...... want a gap closer roll something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phinion Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I consider stealth their gap closer. hard to kill you when I can't see you till its to late. If you are having problems killing a certain class then you should analyze what you are doing because you are not doing something right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephenjohnp Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Operatives are the worst class in the game. I wish people would stop trying to make them out to be better than they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryotknife Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Operatives are the worst class in the game. I wish people would stop trying to make them out to be better than they are. except they are not. highest burst damage in the game, still the only class that can reliably stunlock geared players to death who do not have every CD up. and they have stealth, which is a major gamechanger in ald and void. downside is that they are pretty much worthless in huttball, at least compared to the top 4 classes in that WZ. but that is because gaurd/taunt, mobility, and knockbacks are king in huttball. Edited March 12, 2012 by Ryotknife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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