A Gap Closer for Operatives

[GRINnBARRETT]

My personal experience has been that a gap closer isn't needed. You guys ALWAYS pop from stealth & have what 3 stuns? Seems like it sometimes. I can only seem to kite you guys on my consulars due to force speed.

 

It goes something like this:

 

Stunned out of stealth - which I normally eat if I'm full health b/c I know the long one is coming.

2nd stun - pop trinket

3rd stun/blind/mez whatever

4th some kind of gas cloud effect where I can't damage you

 

I guess I should roll one to see what I'm up against & find a counter

 

gap closer...lol

[zaknaphein]

My personal experience has been that a gap closer isn't needed. You guys ALWAYS pop from stealth & have what 3 stuns? Seems like it sometimes. I can only seem to kite you guys on my consulars due to force speed.

 

It goes something like this:

 

Stunned out of stealth - which I normally eat if I'm full health b/c I know the long one is coming.

2nd stun - pop trinket

3rd stun/blind/mez whatever

4th some kind of gas cloud effect where I can't damage you

 

I guess I should roll one to see what I'm up against & find a counter

 

gap closer...lol

 

Yep you should really roll one to see, because you have no clue there....

 

1st stun = knockdown from opener (talented)

2nd stun = debilitate

3rd stun aka mezz = not possible ur resolve bar is full

 

the 4th, so called gas cloud effect which reduces accuracy is a sniper ability...

However thx for your post, you brought light to darkness, NOT.

Edited March 7, 2012 by zaknaphein

[utuwer]

My personal experience has been that a gap closer isn't needed. You guys ALWAYS pop from stealth & have what 3 stuns? Seems like it sometimes. I can only seem to kite you guys on my consulars due to force speed.

 

It goes something like this:

 

Stunned out of stealth - which I normally eat if I'm full health b/c I know the long one is coming.

2nd stun - pop trinket

3rd stun/blind/mez whatever

4th some kind of gas cloud effect where I can't damage you

 

I guess I should roll one to see what I'm up against & find a counter

 

gap closer...lol

 

1st one is stun from opener - talent- 1.5 sec (after nerfed)

2nd one is regular stun 4 sec. This will fill up the resolve bar, no more cc.

3rd one is AoE mez/blind, only usable after the 2nd one for awhile, so resolve bar will drop and no more immunity from cc.

4th one is either the def screen/shield probe that absorb dmg (about 2-2.5k) or Dodge/Evasion immunity to melee/range attack for 3 sec.

 

All of those thing may looks awesome in 1v1 (which is very rare in WZ).

 

The 1st and also the main reason Sco/Op (especially DPS ones) demands for some sort of gap closer is because they are the least useful class in Hutt Ball (No, you cannot choose which map you enter, sadly) compared to others. KB off the pit and having to run a long way back up to the platform without sprint because stuck in combat is not a nice experience (Why? You are taking time in the pit while a sorc/sage force speed on top of your head to your base and score ). Why do all other melee/range classes (beside slinger/sniper) have 1 or even 2 gap closers and only sco/op has nothing? Why are they the only melee fighter get this disadvantage in this map? Are they 2nd rate citizen of the game or what to be forgotten like that?

 

Secondly, In general pvp situation, range dmg of sco/op is laughable, it would take a day spamming basic attack to take down bubble of sorc/sage, or heavy armor guys. Other 4 range skills (doT, charge, grenade, casting) either cost a ridiculous amount of energy, and do some low-average dmg (even weaker than a saber throw of those melee jedi/sith) or require a cover which is obsoleted by a root.

[nininininin]

For those of you thinking stealth is a gap closer you have never had to run anyone down while youre stealthed and the target is not in combat, they outrun you. if you break stealth, especially against tanks you are dead. A gap closer is definately needed, especially when knocked off the top deck in hutbball and its 20 seconds to get back. I just hang out mid its all i can do.

[VoidSpectre]

See here is the thing about gap closers. They need to be given priority to those who are affected most by lack of range.

 

All of these operatives keep comparing their gap closers to warriors/assassins and yet neither of these classes has more than 1 30m move, and in the case of my marauder no 30m moves.

 

so why then does a class that can still do things at rang think they need the same mobility of those classes that can not hit from far away. what does my marauder do if gets knocked back with no gap closers? walks slowly back or changes to a closer target. what can an operative do? blaster/grenade ect

 

 

 

if they did give ops more gap closers they would need to give marauders spammable saber throws... oh wait classes have different strengths and weaknesses that's right

 

 

 

it balances out. if you want to play a high uptime melee who is useless at range pick that. you picked something with mostly melee and some range. you can't have everything

[GrandMike]

See here is the thing about gap closers. They need to be given priority to those who are affected most by lack of range.

 

All of these operatives keep comparing their gap closers to warriors/assassins and yet neither of these classes has more than 1 30m move, and in the case of my marauder no 30m moves.

 

so why then does a class that can still do things at rang think they need the same mobility of those classes that can not hit from far away. what does my marauder do if gets knocked back with no gap closers? walks slowly back or changes to a closer target. what can an operative do? blaster/grenade ect

 

 

 

if they did give ops more gap closers they would need to give marauders spammable saber throws... oh wait classes have different strengths and weaknesses that's right

 

 

 

it balances out. if you want to play a high uptime melee who is useless at range pick that. you picked something with mostly melee and some range. you can't have everything

 

Its same as saying "why sorc/sage need all their tools to keep range when they have their melee saber skills". When something is not viable its not viable.

 

Operatives/scoundrels operate on 4/10m range. period. All those 30m skills are sniper/gunslinger skills, NOT scoundrel/operative skills.

Edited March 7, 2012 by GrandMike

[VoidSpectre]

Its same as saying "why sorc/sage need all their tools to keep range when they have their melee saber skills". When something is not viable its not viable.

 

Operatives/scoundrels operate on 4/10m range. period. All those 30m skills are sniper/gunslinger skills, NOT scoundrel/operative skills.

 

Not at all the same. the sorc gap makers for survivability and still uses force moves up close.

 

 

 

the OP rifle blast is part of their standard rotation since it's free and 30m. not to mention things like toxic dart and orbital strike which make great moves while at range. what other melee class can heal when they get knocked back and LOS? sure my marauder can LOS but he cant toss heals on himself.

 

 

 

 

Operatives have great melee, and ok range and healing that they can do while away. marauders only have great melee hence the need for more gap closers. asking for the same mobility as some1 as one dimensional as a marauder while maintaining multi dimensions would totally bork any idea of balance or class identity.

[Ich_Bin]

Its same as saying "why sorc/sage need all their tools to keep range when they have their melee saber skills". When something is not viable its not viable.

 

Operatives/scoundrels operate on 4/10m range. period. All those 30m skills are sniper/gunslinger skills, NOT scoundrel/operative skills.

 

This exactly.

I might add that Powertechs/Vanguards have not only one but two gap closing abilities even though they have a ranged attack just like Scoundrels/Operatives do.

In practice both classes (Operative and Powertech) are only viable when in melee range so they both need gap closers.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[direblaze]

The reason we have no gap closer is this.

 

 

We "were" an alpha strike class, whereby you kill or be killed in the first 5 sec of a fight, if they target lived through you damage you died.

 

this relied on our burst dps, of which we no longer had, this also depended on our ability to control the fight, also limited now.

 

 

in short, the whiners Broke the class without even getting to 50 and gearing, so now the players of these classes are totaly screwed.

 

 

 

P.S try weaving probe attack into your rotation, it deals a ton of damage and is ranged also when able you can use cover to speed move you closer to your target.

[VoidSpectre]

This exactly.

I might add that Powertechs/Vanguards have not only one but two gap closing abilities even though they have a ranged attack just like Scoundrels/Operatives do.

In practice both classes (Operative and Powertech) are only viable when in melee range so they both need gap closers.

 

the tank spec ones do. so do the tank spec assassins. apples and oranges to operatives because tanks trade damage for utility things like that

[Ravonous_Curse]

My Sith Warrior Alomst full BM gear vs A Stealthy Ops.

 

DU DU DU

 

(Ops appears)

 

-HEAD SLAMS ON GROUND- OPS Rips my pants off and shoves his blade in my ***

 

I scream "****"

 

But by the time the words come out and I attempt to pull my pants up im stunned again

and again the blade is driven into my ***

 

As I regain consciousness I see my health is 1/3 of what it used to be, As vengence spec I begin to retaliate, I get them to half health before, Stuned agan, Break stun, attempt to shove my Light

saber up their ***. But Bam. I am dead

 

I wipe my tears and pull my pants up to go back into the frey. I see a stealthy, I charge. Unfortunatly its a Assassin Tank, and apparently he cannot be killed and can do just as much dmg as a ops only without the need to go invis.

 

GG

Edited March 7, 2012 by Ravonous_Curse

[Ich_Bin]

the tank spec ones do. so do the tank spec assassins. apples and oranges to operatives because tanks trade damage for utility things like that

 

You started an argument to which I replied. Then you knew no answer to my reply and just say "apples and oranges". I mean come on, you started comparing Operatives to other classes but when someone else does just the same it's only "apples and oranges".

 

The funny thing is that a Powertech and a tank Assassin can do similar damage to that of on Operative (only less burst) lol.

Edited March 7, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[VoidSpectre]

The funny thing is that a Powertech and a tank Assassin can do similar damage to that of on Operative (only less burst) lol.

 

you must be playing with some terrible and undergeared operatives

[Ich_Bin]

you must be playing with some terrible and undergeared operatives

 

Tank Assassins can crit regularly for 4.8k without depending on stealth. Operatives with similar gear do about the same damage when they crit with their opener which is only available from stealth. Maybe you should open your eyes and/or think of some better retorts.

 

Or are you just playing with terrible and undergeared Powertechs/Assassins?

Edited March 7, 2012 by Ich_Bin

[VoidSpectre]

Tank Assassins can crit regularly for 4.8k. Operatives with similar gear do about the same damage with their opener which is only available from stealth. Maybe you should open your eyes and/or think of some better retorts.

 

and my marauder can shoot lasers from his eyes and emit microwave farts.

 

 

 

fact is operatives don't need gap closers because they CAN do things at range. they cant have the same as classes that CANT do things at range

Edited March 7, 2012 by VoidSpectre

[fozbozjimjam]

why should you have a gap closer im sick to death of being in fall battlemaster gear and getting taking to 15% hp in 5gcds whilst i stand there scratching my nuts because escape is on cd as a sniper and then when i finally do get to fight back you just vanish and then finish the last 15% of.

 

suck it up you still dominate some classes with ease, what do you want to dominate everything like you did before the nerf?

[GrandMike]

The reason we have no gap closer is this.

 

We "were" an alpha strike class, whereby you kill or be killed in the first 5 sec of a fight, if they target lived through you damage you died.

 

this relied on our burst dps, of which we no longer had, this also depended on our ability to control the fight, also limited now.

 

in short, the whiners Broke the class without even getting to 50 and gearing, so now the players of these classes are totaly screwed.

 

P.S try weaving probe attack into your rotation, it deals a ton of damage and is ranged also when able you can use cover to speed move you closer to your target.

 

This is biggest problem. Class was never designed to "hang around", and unfortunately in most cases, because of nerfed burst, it has to "hang around".

 

Spamming 30m skills will

a) drain your energy real fast

b) do low dps

 

Its not viable, 30m skills are sniper/gnslinger skills, you *can* use them, but saying that they somehow magically replace 4/10m skills is laughable. Same as saying sage/sorc can do damage with their melee saber attacks so they dont need range.

Edited March 9, 2012 by GrandMike

[Sinemetu]

and my marauder can shoot lasers from his eyes and emit microwave farts.

 

 

 

fact is operatives don't need gap closers because they CAN do things at range. they cant have the same as classes that CANT do things at range

 

So can you. It's called force leap--an interrupt and snare and gap closer all rolled into one. The operative snare and interrupt have 10m range. Additionally, the operative only gets the one snare unless they spec into Lethality--which has nothing to do with this thread. Marauders get a snare plus a passive one from bleeds via talents. Additionally, marauders actually do quite a bit of self-healing when specced right. I've seen one pull 100k healing in a huttball match. You'll never see a concealment operative heal himself for anything close to that.

 

Marauders are arguably the single best PvP dps class in the game. You're really trying to compare yourself to operatives? I'm a healer, and I'll take an operative beating on me over a marauder any day of the week.

[Alexdaphnis]

Another thing for all the sorcs that whine we dont need gap closer how you feel about that bubble that stuns imediatly when you hit it...*** is this?

[hulkweazel]

why should you have a gap closer im sick to death of being in fall battlemaster gear and getting taking to 15% hp in 5gcds whilst i stand there scratching my nuts because escape is on cd as a sniper and then when i finally do get to fight back you just vanish and then finish the last 15% of.

 

suck it up you still dominate some classes with ease, what do you want to dominate everything like you did before the nerf?

See my thread on how to deal with Ops: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=350138

 

Honestly, if you get dominated by Ops, either you play a Sniper or Sorc, or you're a bad player.

[Luno]

It would be nice to have some sort of mobility skill for Operatives that isn't tied to Stealth, however I think a Shadowstep is a bit much. Maybe something like a Zip Line that you can plant in a location and then return to the next time you use the skill (with range and LOS restrictions). That type of skill has shown up on stealth classes in a couple of games and can add some nice mobility with appropriate setup.

[Xallionn]

I just made a suggestion in the Smuggler forums for a gap closer. Let me know what you think: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=3338870#post3338870

[Morticoccus]

Horrible comparison, especially since that scenario does not happen with a Sent/Mar who can just reapply his snare immediatly after a dispel

 

Im not saying SC/OPS should get something ridicolous like wow's crippling poison eh... at least reduce tendon blast's/op counterpart's duration AND cd so it becomes more realiable, as it is now its mostly used to root force speeders and people passing over the ovens

 

Using a skill the majority of the time for its talent added proc is something that should not happen

 

Remembering crippling poison makes me all tingly inside... Just imagine how awesome a buff like that would be on operatives =3

 

As it is now though you have to remember that tendon blast get all the crap it does because it's a ranged snare as opposed to a close range one like the one we have.

 

The best thing would probably be to simply give operatives a close range snare instead.

[Dejected]

BALANCE goes a long way.

personally i think that OPS/SCOUNDRELS have the highest burst damage still and are still very viable but i can understand the arguement you are presenting.

on the other hand i think that giving you a gap closer will ultimately give the upperhand back to the ops/scoundrels with having still great burst multiple stuns and now a gap closer.

 

as a telekenetic shadow i officially have 2 gap closers (force pull/force speed) and 2 slows that are on a much faster CD. I also deal MUCH MUCH less damage and not even near the burst potential of your class or mirror. Then again i have much higher survivability. I could honestly find it justified to make you slow a 6 sec CD which would make it much easier for you to stay on any targets.

 

But your classes are still VERY squishy so i think that if they reduced your healing if not specced for healing then i would have no problem with them having a gap closer.

right now having your burst, with your survivability based on stun healing that without a change to 1 part of your class it would kind of make it imba. not much just a little but that is just my opinion.

 

Step 1: Go Infiltrator.

 

Step 2: realize how wrong red highlighted statement is.

 

Step 2b: Realize how wrong Yellow Highlighted Statement is.

 

Step 3: Join Scrappers/Conc Ops in the fight to get some use out of our class back.

 

 

Shadows/Sins (if spec'd for damage, and not tank) are hands down some of the best burst damage in this game, combined with numerous defensive cooldowns, the ability to negate 50% of the damage to a healer at the cost of your own burst, knockbacks, etc.

 

Shadows/Sins do NOT have ANY room to post in a thread about how to improve Scrappers/ Conc Ops.

 

Please, next time you decide to post in a thread, compare apples to apple, not apples to sledgehammers

Edited March 9, 2012 by Dejected

[Morticoccus]

So can you. It's called force leap--an interrupt and snare and gap closer all rolled into one. The operative snare and interrupt have 10m range. Additionally, the operative only gets the one snare unless they spec into Lethality--which has nothing to do with this thread. Marauders get a snare plus a passive one from bleeds via talents. Additionally, marauders actually do quite a bit of self-healing when specced right. I've seen one pull 100k healing in a huttball match. You'll never see a concealment operative heal himself for anything close to that.

 

Marauders are arguably the single best PvP dps class in the game. You're really trying to compare yourself to operatives? I'm a healer, and I'll take an operative beating on me over a marauder any day of the week.

 

So can we sentinels, and it's an interrupt, a *root* and a gap closer all rolled into one, it completely stops the target, get your facts right.