Vamina Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 First off, this is not a thread made to whine about the changes made to Operatives in pvp. Personally, I think a slightly lower damage hidden strike is a fair trade with the buff jarring strike was given to not fill the resolve bar. An issue I do feel needs addressed however is the lack of a gap closing power for Operatives, specifically concealment. If you look at the other melee classes, they all have some sort of skill that allows them to get in a ranged dps' face more quickly (Force Charge, Jet Charge, Grapple, Force Speed, etc). Operatives have two talents that provide movement speed increases, but one requires us to use Debilitate on a target (our best stun), and the other requires us to burn out best defensive cooldown (Cloaking Screen). The other melee classes do not have similar drawbacks built into their gap closers, and only Jet Charge requires a talent. Here is my suggestion: 1) Switch Meticulously Kept Blades and Culling in the Concealment talent tree. 2) Roll Acid Blade and Culling into one talent. It would still be a 3 point talent, and points invested beyond the first would only increase the damage dealt to poisoned targets (1%/2%/3%). 3) Create a new 31 point talent similar to Shadowstep used by rogues in that other game whose name cannot be spoken. The range would be equal to that of the other gap closers, and the operative would end up behind his or her target. Now, before anyone says "Stealth is your gap closer, that talent would be overpowered!", I would like to point out that the other stealthy melee class not only has a gap closer in the form of a sprint, but also has an AoE knockback. I am suggesting Operatives sacrifice the utility of a knockback in order to have a skill that would bring them more into line with the other melee classes when outside of stealth. Any thoughts are appreciated, and yes I can feel the flames at my back as I finish typing this. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leszor Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) A decent sprint and a reliable snare would make wonders for our class But who are we kidding, most of the replies are gonna come from "lolololl2pnoobyoudeservenothing" trolls Edited February 15, 2012 by Leszor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerdoc Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Last time I played my scoundrel he had stealth as a form of gap closing and tendon blast as reliable snare... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leszor Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 So reliable when you use it on someone who dispels it/gets dispelled you have to wait its 12s cd Some people actually press their buttons, you know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenbruton Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) So reliable when you use it on someone who dispels it/gets dispelled you have to wait its 12s cd Some people actually press their buttons, you know Oh no! If they dispell it they can get away. THE MADNESS!!!!! edit: In other news. If they get heals their health bar goes back up! Edited February 15, 2012 by glenbruton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gryhmr Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) i dont think you guys need a gap closer since you have a blaster and can still do damage from range. not great damage, but damage. you also have flash grenade. Edited February 15, 2012 by gryhmr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redderic Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 BALANCE goes a long way. personally i think that OPS/SCOUNDRELS have the highest burst damage still and are still very viable but i can understand the arguement you are presenting. on the other hand i think that giving you a gap closer will ultimately give the upperhand back to the ops/scoundrels with having still great burst multiple stuns and now a gap closer. as a telekenetic shadow i officially have 2 gap closers (force pull/force speed) and 2 slows that are on a much faster CD. I also deal MUCH MUCH less damage and not even near the burst potential of your class or mirror. Then again i have much higher survivability. I could honestly find it justified to make you slow a 6 sec CD which would make it much easier for you to stay on any targets. But your classes are still VERY squishy so i think that if they reduced your healing if not specced for healing then i would have no problem with them having a gap closer. right now having your burst, with your survivability based on stun healing that without a change to 1 part of your class it would kind of make it imba. not much just a little but that is just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leszor Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) Oh no! If they dispell it they can get away. THE MADNESS!!!!! edit: In other news. If they get heals their health bar goes back up! Horrible comparison, especially since that scenario does not happen with a Sent/Mar who can just reapply his snare immediatly after a dispel Im not saying SC/OPS should get something ridicolous like wow's crippling poison eh... at least reduce tendon blast's/op counterpart's duration AND cd so it becomes more realiable, as it is now its mostly used to root force speeders and people passing over the ovens Using a skill the majority of the time for its talent added proc is something that should not happen Edited February 15, 2012 by Leszor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somalin Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Would be cool if Operatives could dive roll to targets kind of like how we roll into cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ich_Bin Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Operative: -Worst healer in the game -Worst stealther in the game -Worst DPS in the game -NO utility in Huttball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamina Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 i dont think you guys need a gap closer since you have a blaster and can still do damage from range. not great damage, but damage. you also have flash grenade. By that logic you could say Sith Warriors don't need a gap closer due to having Saber Throw and Force Choke, or that Assassins don't need a gap closer because they have Shock. Of the melee classes, Powertechs are the only ones remotely viable from range, and that's pushing it since two of their main attacks are melee range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gryhmr Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Operative: -Worst healer in the game -Worst stealther in the game -Worst DPS in the game -NO utility in Huttball worst stealth in the game? i laughed hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gryhmr Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 By that logic you could say Sith Warriors don't need a gap closer due to having Saber Throw and Force Choke, or that Assassins don't need a gap closer because they have Shock. Of the melee classes, Powertechs are the only ones remotely viable from range, and that's pushing it since two of their main attacks are melee range. when shadows can open up as hard as an operative can i will think ops need a gap closer. as it is the only way to have a chance after an operative opens is to kite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamina Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 BALANCE goes a long way. personally i think that OPS/SCOUNDRELS have the highest burst damage still and are still very viable but i can understand the arguement you are presenting. on the other hand i think that giving you a gap closer will ultimately give the upperhand back to the ops/scoundrels with having still great burst multiple stuns and now a gap closer. as a telekenetic shadow i officially have 2 gap closers (force pull/force speed) and 2 slows that are on a much faster CD. I also deal MUCH MUCH less damage and not even near the burst potential of your class or mirror. Then again i have much higher survivability. I could honestly find it justified to make you slow a 6 sec CD which would make it much easier for you to stay on any targets. But your classes are still VERY squishy so i think that if they reduced your healing if not specced for healing then i would have no problem with them having a gap closer. right now having your burst, with your survivability based on stun healing that without a change to 1 part of your class it would kind of make it imba. not much just a little but that is just my opinion. I can see your point to an extent, but non heal specced operatives stun healing only really affects 1v1. If you have more than one person beating on you (happens all the time in most warzones), you self healing abilities aren't going to save you unless you spend 2 talents points in Incisive Action, which would require either a dps loss or a CC loss. The only way I could see that being a remotely reliable way to spec would be if the cooldown on Sever Tendon was reduced as you suggested, in which case 2 points in Pin Down wouldn't be nearly as required as it is currently. If all else fails, a simple flip of Incisive Action and Surgical Steadiness in the medic tree would solve any stun healing issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrekorSilverfang Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Last time I played my scoundrel he had stealth as a form of gap closing and tendon blast as reliable snare... Then you realize you were stuck in combat and couldn't stealth. Then huttball happened. Operatives need a way to close the gap on someone at differing elevations while in combat. I'd suggest a shadowstep like ability as it tends to fit their role a bit more. Put it on a 30s CD and we're good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vamina Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 when shadows can open up as hard as an operative can i will think ops need a gap closer. as it is the only way to have a chance after an operative opens is to kite. Operatives definitely hit much harder than Shadows on our opener, but Shadows are far more survivable outside of stealth. Operatives and Shadows are fairly close in dps outside of stealth, and considering the fact that our highest dps ability requires us to be behind our target, any decent S-keyer can easily prevent it from connecting unless they are stunned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VertisReaper Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 give them a blink that makes them immune to damage for 10 seconds and heals them for 10% HP/sec. class fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRFC Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Last time I played my scoundrel he had stealth as a form of gap closing and tendon blast as reliable snare... This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DestyOwn Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 isnt stealth a gap closer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mangarrage Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Any class that can stunlock kill from out of the shadows doesnt need additions tbh You guys are the vanilla wow rogues Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbadisbad Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Operatives definitely hit much harder than Shadows on our opener, but Shadows are far more survivable outside of stealth. Operatives and Shadows are fairly close in dps outside of stealth, and considering the fact that our highest dps ability requires us to be behind our target, any decent S-keyer can easily prevent it from connecting unless they are stunned. Operatives do not open for more than a properly specced deception Assassin. Operatives and Assassins are not even close to the same DPS outside of stealth. Assassins out DPS them significantly. You have never played an Operative so stop posting random ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Izola Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Last time I played my scoundrel he had stealth as a form of gap closing and tendon blast as reliable snare... Quoted for TRUTH!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetou Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 isnt stealth a gap closer? Not realistically in Warzones, no. In PVE, yes. A proper gap closer would let us get into melee range while we are already flagged for combat. Something that would mean we don't spend half a huttball game returning from the pits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entropicus Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Last time I played my scoundrel he had stealth as a form of gap closing and tendon blast as reliable snare... I like the shadow step idea, or let tendon blast be used from stealth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howbadisbad Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I like the shadow step idea, or let tendon blast be used from stealth. Or give it 30m range... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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