High treat Skill: <WORKING?>

[OmoveAbril]

So i got a lvl 50 teir 2 gear shadow tank.

 

I know that slow time and Project have added threat components. Funny thing is i could hit a mob with either one of them and it dosent seem like the treat on these skills is very effective.

 

ive even noticed that my base aggro from my stance dose not grant me an authoritative command of the aggro table. anyone else notice or feel like the aggro mechanics is either got a steep learning curve or wonky?

[SushaBrancaleone]

hi.

to start with only your tAunts will automatically (lets call them aunts instead? for fun?)

bring mobs to attack you. (because they DONT genereat threat) if you do not build agro on them when the effect of the taunt finishes the mobs will go back to attacking the highest target on their agro list (kina lik emost hated)

 

other abilities that build agro, will generate higher threat than just damage abilities. (do consider though that damage dealer classes will prolly do more damage than u and thus generate threat too) but not force mobs to attack you.

 

Now before we go on. How do shadow tanks work? well for one you need to have the proper stance. im not remembering the name but its the one that boosts your armour by 150% and generates agro with your damage. I presume you are using this always as u say u have slow time in the balance tree.

 

another very important tool for shadow guardians is GUARD. it transfers agro and damage from the target to the tank. U might think it is usually best on healers, but other than in specific fights u are best off putting it on the strongest Damage Dealer cos healing only generates a 5% agro or something.

 

Now another thing that might be getting you.

 

 

tanking multiple mobs or single targets requires for 2 different rotations. (a rotation is the skills u use and repeat in a fight).

 

single target well project slow, defence skills, project and the other chucking spell, taunt if the target slips away, and with the project and telekinetic throw (thats how its called!) and slow u should soon be on top of the agro table. if not pop your mind control to oblige to attack and try and top up damage.

 

as for aoe tanking. well u need to gather your mobs to start ofc. after that is slow, whirling blow, whirling blow, whirling blow.

dont use the abilities that push them far, especially if u used force pull to gather them up... you might think its a no brainer but.. ive done it myself..

whilring blow does lots of damage, and is effective to keep the agro u generate with slow time use mass mind control at the beggining of a pull to bring melee mobs to u.

 

it gets tricky with bigger groups like in false emperor.

 

what i find helps is finding 2 ranged targets that are far away form each other in the group. u run for one of them and target the other when u reach one (use dash) u force pull the other to u and then pop mass mind control. that way you should have 2 ranged and all the melee mobs atleast all in one spot. DO pop kinetic ward before u run in and pop all your defence skills and keep using whirling blow and slow.

 

hope that helps ya.

 

ciao

Edited February 16, 2012 by SushaBrancaleone

[SushaBrancaleone]

some one else has more accuraly posted on regards of threat, im just pasting it here for you:

 

So now I'm going to go over some analysis. I see these questions constantly both in game and on the forums. So let's review a little bit of math first to show you how threat works from our current understanding.

 

So, let's pretend for a moment that we're fighting a boss. This boss's name will be Deathstar. Our tank's name is Luke. Our DPS's name is Porkins. Now, we're gonna say that Luke currently has 990 threat built up. We're also going to say that Porkins currently has 1,280 threat built up and he is 20m away. A moment later Porkins hit's 1,301 threat and Luke stands at a current threat of 1,000.

 

Porkins has just trumped Luke's threat by a factor of 1.3 and has now aggro'd Deathstar. Deathstar closes in and starts attacking Porkins. Now, we're going to pretend for a moment that Luke doesn't have any taunts. So he has to close with Deathstar to Porkins location in order to build up enough threat to get Deathstar's attention. Now since both Porkins, Luke and Deathstar are all within 4m of one another they are all considered "melee" regardless of what types of attacks they use.

 

Ok, Gankstah, that's all fine and dandy but what does this mean?

 

I'm glad you asked, what this means is that Luke, without any taunts has to trump Porkins threat total by a factor of 1.1 (because they're all within melee range of one another). With Porkins at 1,301 and Luke at a total of 1,000 that means Luke has to reach over 1,430 threat in order to get Deathstar's attention. Or to put it simply, he has to generate over 40% of the current threat he's already established prior to Porkins going overboard.

 

This is all assuming that Porkins drops what he's doing and doesn't do any healing or damage from that point on because any threat generating abilities he uses increases Luke's threshold even more. Basically Porkins is screwed.

 

BOOOM!

 

In case you're a little lost at this point let me put that into perspective for you. If you and a buddy are fighting an enemy who has 3,000,000 hit points, you have done 1,000,000 damge and your buddy has done 1,300,000 damage and you guys have been plugging away at this bad boy for over an hour... you would have to almost kill that mob before you ever got aggro back.

 

Now, let's introduce Taunt. The current theory that is floating around in theorycrafting circles is that Taunt increases the Tank's threat level to that of whoever pulled the aggro to begin with. I believe that this theory is not entirely accurate.

 

As evidenced in this video.

[Lydialeera]

Nice explanation Susha. Just one thing you have a bit off:

 

hi.

another very important tool for shadow guardians is GUARD. it transfers agro and damage from the target to the tank.

 

Outside of PVP, Guard does not transfer anything. In PVE it just reduces the target's damage taken by 5% and threat produced by 25%.

 

Only in PVP does it transfer 50% of damage taken to the tank. Fairly certain the -5% incoming damage still functions in PVP, but I have no proof either way.

[PhoR]

You can check the effect details on torhead for threat modifiers.

 

I don't see a threat Modifier on Project at all, it just happens to do a good amount of damage which is modified by combat technique for an extra 50% threat.

~2000 avg damage + 50% = ~3000 threat

 

Slow Time and Force Pull both have threat modifiers, though that doesn't necessarily mean they'll give you more threat than Project.

 

Example:

Slow Time - ThreatPercent=>0.5

So it gets an extra 50% on top of the 50% you get from Combat Technique.

But it only hits for ~450, so if you use it on a single target it's only going to give you ~900 threat. But if you use it against 5 mobs grouped up, then a single cast would give you ~4500 threat spread between the mobs.

 

Force Pull - ModifyThreat: StandardHealthPercentMin=>1.6, StandardHealthPercentMax=>1.6

We have to find the correct table to get the StandardHealth number, and I believe the game counts the level for which the ability is learned, not your current level for attack calculations. So Force Pull is trainable at 30, which makes the StandardHealthPercent number 1130. So Force Pull would do ~2712 threat while in Combat Technique.

 

So it looks like Project is actually slightly better than Force Pull even though the project tooltip doesn't say anything about additional threat, and Slow Time is actually only good in AoE situations even though it says "This ability generates a high amount of threat."

 

Unless I'm missing something in the way the game applies these formulas (which is certainly possible).

 

 

Threat is SUPPOSED to be touch and go at times though. It keeps the combat interesting. If you could just spam an AoE taunt and hit defensive cooldowns, then combat would be totally mindless.

Edited February 17, 2012 by PhoR

[PhoenixMatrix]

You can check the effect details on torhead for threat modifiers.

 

I don't see a threat Modifier on Project at all, it just happens to do a good amount of damage which is modified by combat technique for an extra 50% threat.

~2000 avg damage + 50% = ~3000 threat

 

Its in the talent tree. 15% more threat and damage.

[Kitru]

to start with only your tAunts will automatically (lets call them aunts instead? for fun?)

bring mobs to attack you. (because they DONT genereat threat) if you do not build agro on them when the effect of the taunt finishes the mobs will go back to attacking the highest target on their agro list (kina lik emost hated)

 

Actually, taunts *do* modify the threat tables. They modify them at the point of application, however, meaning that, if someone else in your group generates enough threat to pull off of you in the intervening 6 seconds that the target is *forced* to attack you, you are going to lose aggro as soon as the taunt debuff fades. In addition, Taunt has no effect if the target is already affected by the Taunt debuff. If you're ever *not* sure about this, just go out with a companion, have the companion start attacking the target while you ignore it, and then set your companion to passive while you throw out a taunt. Even after the debuff fades, the target will still keep attacking you even though you haven't done a single point of damage to it. If you're *still* not sure and need further evidence, fight *any* boss that causes a threat drop (first boss of EV does this with his knockback); if you're more than a few seconds into the fight and attempt to get threat back simply by attacking him after he punts you away, you're not going to be getting aggro back simply because you can't generate threat fast enough to overtake their threat, nor would you be able to do so in any conceivable 6 second window (assuming your group is actually attacking him, which is a reasonable assumption). Now, if you *taunt*, you're going to get threat immediately *and* you're going to keep it after the debuff fades.

 

Any interpretation of the mechanics other than taunt straight up granting you the threat needed to take aggro at the time of application doesn't grok with the empirical evidence. Ergo, Taunt actually affects the aggro tables.

[Baelish]

Actually, taunts *do* modify the threat tables.

This was confirmed in this week's Q&A thread.

 

http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-qa-feb-17th-2012

 

It's about third from bottom.

[thorizdin]

Yep, this is why you shouldn't lead with a taunt.

[XtremJedi]

...at the time of application doesn't grok with the empirical evidence.

 

Nice reference to slip in.

 

Yup, my understanding too is that taunts give you enough threat to place you at the top of the list too.

 

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