Why is there so much alacrity on our healing gear?

[HeavenlyBluE]

@Shroudveil

My KInj at 1.67, and I'm not full BiS yet. @447 alacrity Kinj + Kinf is 2.93s.

 

Your analysis is reasonable.. but to do burst healing you just chain spam KInj + KInf until you're out of energy, then either Adrenaline Probe if you need to keep going, or DS your way back to full energy if the raid has stabilized.

 

@Ogheir

If you restrict it to a 5 or 7 second window, Ops may well win. With probes rolling, KInj/SP spam or even KInj/Kinf spam is a pretty big pile of healing, and I would suspect that we can at the very least keep up with sorcs/ mercs. If you pile up alacrity, and narrow the time of the window (who can heal the most in 1.8 seconds..), you can probably 'win' this contest. The issue is what happens to us (or a merc) after that burst. Our resource regeneration takes a hit. The sorc's does not.

This analysis is exactly perfect. I agree 100%. But the answer to your issue of what happens to use after is that it doesn't matter. After we do the most healing of anybody in the 1.8s window, the guy who just made a mistake in raid is now at least back above 2/3 hp and you aren't gunna wipe. That's the essence of skilled healing - covering mistakes such that you don't lose people to less than perfect play. And I believe the sorc/op combo is the best setup for that (although it's debatably sorc/merc.. the armor buff and healing received buff are very nice but since I'm an operative I'm probably biased and I'm just gunna go with it

 

Adding an additional 565 only gave 12.78%. That 16% haste is a atrocious return on investment for 658 Alacrity.

So crit is 16.8% better than alacrity point for point on paper. Sounds pretty reasonable. Power is 12.2% better than crit on paper, but a lot of people still prefer crit/surge over power/surge, and they don't get ridiculed for it.

[Sookster]

Increasing power and surge is way more energy effective and gives you bigger heals than healing every so seconds. I used to do this on my priest in WoW years ago until I changed my outfit for stronger heals and I was almost never out of mana since then.

 

IMO the 4% alacrity talent + enough alacrity (usually 2 pieces) to get a 2.0s cast down to 1.8s is good enough.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Sookster

[Riggz]

Because it's your 2nd best stat after power. L2P.

 

And if for some reason you're bad and don't like it. The game gives you the beautiful option to replace all the enhancements.

 

Second best stat?

 

HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

Try last

 

Cunning - Crit - Surge - Power - then maybe alacrity if you wanna

 

(Power can be rotated differently in the order of most important attributes. Depends if you want to have more steady heals or have less steady heals with more huge crits)

[IRedwulfe]

I have to agree with HeavenlyBlue. Though it is fine on paper that other stats give a better percentage. If a teammate is going down in 1.8 seconds, it doesn't matter if a get a 68 million heal to them in 2. They are still dead.

 

It is more efficient, energy wise, on paper, to go for crit and surge. You are healing more with less energy, but I don't fell that min maxed efficiency is always needed, especially in heals. When I see someone going down quick, for whatever reason, player mistake, a series of crits on the mobs part, what have you, I burst them back from the brink in quick fashion, the player recovers and then I DS and KP/SB back my energy since the combat has stabilized. It is in these fluctuations, that I feel alacrity has proven itself to me. I get them up quick before they die in a fast enough fashion that they don't die before my casting is done. I don't care if the heal was 100 points or 75 million, so long as they are still fighting, I did my job.

 

In most times that I have played, I have not had energy problems even though I have chosen alacrity as my secondary stat to power, I use my other heals until I need to burst and then my energy dips and goes right back up, before I need it again. "energy too low" is not something I see. So that is what I am judging that on.

 

Maybe its a factor of differing play styles, but I haven't had problems so I will continue to use what has worked for me. To each their own.

 

Red

[HeavenlyBluE]

First of all, your on-paper stat weightings are incorrect

 

It's Cunning > Surge > Power > Crit, with alacrity being a special case.

 

At least with my gear I got values of:

1 Cunning = 0.620 healing

1 Surge = 0.521 healing

1 Power = 0.515 healing

1 Crit = 0.459 healing

 

But as stated many times, healing isn't dps and the best stat isn't necessarily the one that increases your theoretical throughput the most.

 

The reason why Power is considered better than surge is that it affects every heal. Surge only works when you crit, and is more prone to overhealing waste than power.

 

I've already stated many times the reasons why I like alacrity and the theory behind it, so you can go back and read if you wan't to stop being ignorant.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ******.

[Shroudveil]

@Shroudveil

My KInj at 1.67, and I'm not full BiS yet. @447 alacrity Kinj + Kinf is 2.93s.

 

Your analysis is reasonable.. but to do burst healing you just chain spam KInj + KInf until you're out of energy, then either Adrenaline Probe if you need to keep going, or DS your way back to full energy if the raid has stabilized.

 

 

in PAPER yes, in reality no.

 

as i said in my post, you need burst healing qute often. most hm/nm bosses will do high damage attacks every 20-30secs. adrenalinee probe has a 2min cd, you cant be expected to be able to heal only ONE of those bursts, you need a way to regain ~20-30energy quickly after each burst healing period and need to do so every 30secs.

 

the ONLY tool for that would be DS IF it would actually restored a resonable amount of energy (like 8/crit) OR if it wouldn't be such a huge hit in your hps (it is ~10%hps compared to your normal rotation, if it was even a 30-35% like it is for the mercs it would be much better)

 

in hm/nm there isn't a "stability" period long enough after each burst to burn the ~7-9secs you need to fill up your energy using DS. at most you have a 3-4sec window in which you also need to refresh hots and stuff.

 

 

First of all, your on-paper stat weightings are incorrect

 

It's Cunning > Surge > Power > Crit, with alacrity being a special case.

 

At least with my gear I got values of:

1 Cunning = 0.620 healing

1 Surge = 0.521 healing

1 Power = 0.515 healing

1 Crit = 0.459 healing

 

But as stated many times, healing isn't dps and the best stat isn't necessarily the one that increases your theoretical throughput the most.

 

The reason why Power is considered better than surge is that it affects every heal. Surge only works when you crit, and is more prone to overhealing waste than power.

 

I've already stated many times the reasons why I like alacrity and the theory behind it, so you can go back and read if you wan't to stop being ignorant.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ******.

 

your stat weight are different from other's because you a)don't count passives in the talent tree, and b)because you have so low crit/surge (they have soft caps which you haven't hit yet).

 

alacrity has a terible scaling, at 470alacrity i was at ~17%less casting speed (counting the +4% from the talent), using the alacrity adrenal (+535 if i remember correctly) just game me something like 3-5%more. so even though i more than double it i gained 50%of what i already had.

 

using those numbers i calculated that even with 1000alacrity you wouldn't hit the 25%reduction, and this assumes 4%as a bonus from the talent.

[HeavenlyBluE]

as i said in my post, you need burst healing qute often. most hm/nm bosses will do high damage attacks every 20-30secs. adrenalinee probe has a 2min cd, you cant be expected to be able to heal only ONE of those bursts, you need a way to regain ~20-30energy quickly after each burst healing period and need to do so every 30secs.

 

the ONLY tool for that would be DS IF it would actually restored a resonable amount of energy (like 8/crit) OR if it wouldn't be such a huge hit in your hps (it is ~10%hps compared to your normal rotation, if it was even a 30-35% like it is for the mercs it would be much better)

 

in hm/nm there isn't a "stability" period long enough after each burst to burn the ~7-9secs you need to fill up your energy using DS. at most you have a 3-4sec window in which you also need to refresh hots and stuff.

That hasn't been my experience at all. I quite frequently spam myself out of energy and then DS back up with no problem. An example would be when the tank gets carbonite probed on jarg and sorno, damage goes out of control and you have to spam, and then I can pretty much chain 4-5 DS while the raid is stable.

 

In fact, our sorc has been raiding with his hybrid PvP spec since last week cuz he doesn't even have to heal half the time. Although that might be cuz we've stopped doing nightmare mode (until the next progression content) cuz there's no point really in doing it more than a few times.

 

If you're finding that you can't spam heal the bursts and then DS back up, I think you might have to identify where your players are making mistakes and try to reduce it. Yes they are more frequent than once every 2 minutes, but you just find a way to deal with it.. sometimes I can only DS back up partway and have to hover in mid energy for a bit. Another good example is forman crusher.. You have to chain spam the tank during frenzy and then I DS.. I save adrenaline probe for the frenzy when adds spawn like right after it.

 

And your hot is the lowest priority really. Like on forman crusher, I'll refresh the hot right as frenzy pops and then start spamming.. but after frenzy ends I just worry about getting my energy back to full, and I'll let the hot drop quite frequently.. not only on that fight but many fights. Having your hot going isn't more important than getting back to high energy after burst healing was required.

 

your stat weight are different from other's because you a)don't count passives in the talent tree, and b)because you have so low crit/surge (they have soft caps which you haven't hit yet).

 

alacrity has a terible scaling, at 470alacrity i was at ~17%less casting speed (counting the +4% from the talent), using the alacrity adrenal (+535 if i remember correctly) just game me something like 3-5%more. so even though i more than double it i gained 50%of what i already had.

 

using those numbers i calculated that even with 1000alacrity you wouldn't hit the 25%reduction, and this assumes 4%as a bonus from the talent.

Yea I've played with the spreadsheet that was published over at sithwarrior.. the author listed the stat priorities as cunning > power > crit to 350 (seems arbitrary) > surge > crit. But that information is pretty useless because it doesn't assign a value to the stat, such that you can compare for example... 45 cunning/34 power mod vs 61 cunning/11 crit mod. I.e. should I replace the rakata boot mod with one ripped out of an old colomi piece.

 

Other than the arbitrary and random idea that you should stack X amount of crit before getting surge (which is the mathematically better stat), his stat priorities make sense. I agree my surge value would be below my power value if I had more of it.

 

And you're right about the talents.. The only one I have to consider to refine my numbers is the +30% surge talent. I expect that will significantly boost the value of crit, but judging by the theorycraft published at sithwarrior, it still won't exceed power. Was planning on working that out later tonight to know for sure.. I might have to switch my 61 cunning/11 crit mod back in

[Shakalax]

Not going to waste the breath to respond to most of the alacrity hating tripe, just want to say that as someone who has healed 5/5 NM EV and KP with 390 alacrity rating listen to what HeavenlyBluE is saying and stop trying to treat it as a my stat is bigger than yours argument.

 

I'm sure that people min/maxing their HPS and HPE running with full columi crit/surge mods and what not can do just fine with a good enough group, but having a 2.5s diagnostic scan and 1.7 KInj's is not wasted at all.

 

For for anyone arguing this who hasn't healed through at least the first 2 bosses in NM, please come back then and analyze the arguments, and if you still think alacrity isn't needed then more power to you. For my part I'll take the pepsi challenge with anyone who thinks that having 390 alacrity is making me an inferior healer.

 

And thank you very much HeavenlyBluE for providing at least some semblance of intelligence on these boards.

[Shroudveil]

That hasn't been my experience at all. I quite frequently spam myself out of energy and then DS back up with no problem. An example would be when the tank gets carbonite probed on jarg and sorno, damage goes out of control and you have to spam, and then I can pretty much chain 4-5 DS while the raid is stable.

 

In fact, our sorc has been raiding with his hybrid PvP spec since last week cuz he doesn't even have to heal half the time. Although that might be cuz we've stopped doing nightmare mode (until the next progression content) cuz there's no point really in doing it more than a few times.

 

If you're finding that you can't spam heal the bursts and then DS back up, I think you might have to identify where your players are making mistakes and try to reduce it. Yes they are more frequent than once every 2 minutes, but you just find a way to deal with it.. sometimes I can only DS back up partway and have to hover in mid energy for a bit. Another good example is forman crusher.. You have to chain spam the tank during frenzy and then I DS.. I save adrenaline probe for the frenzy when adds spawn like right after it.

 

And your hot is the lowest priority really. Like on forman crusher, I'll refresh the hot right as frenzy pops and then start spamming.. but after frenzy ends I just worry about getting my energy back to full, and I'll let the hot drop quite frequently.. not only on that fight but many fights. Having your hot going isn't more important than getting back to high energy after burst healing was required.

 

 

Yea I've played with the spreadsheet that was published over at sithwarrior.. the author listed the stat priorities as cunning > power > crit to 350 (seems arbitrary) > surge > crit. But that information is pretty useless because it doesn't assign a value to the stat, such that you can compare for example... 45 cunning/34 power mod vs 61 cunning/11 crit mod. I.e. should I replace the rakata boot mod with one ripped out of an old colomi piece.

 

Other than the arbitrary and random idea that you should stack X amount of crit before getting surge (which is the mathematically better stat), his stat priorities make sense. I agree my surge value would be below my power value if I had more of it.

 

And you're right about the talents.. The only one I have to consider to refine my numbers is the +30% surge talent. I expect that will significantly boost the value of crit, but judging by the theorycraft published at sithwarrior, it still won't exceed power. Was planning on working that out later tonight to know for sure.. I might have to switch my 61 cunning/11 crit mod back in

 

sithwarriors values are over the place atm for starters.

 

crit soft cap seems to be ~400, not 350, and surge soft cap ~250. after those values those 2 stats will start having diminishing returns.

 

about the fights, well, jarg+sorn are one of the easiest fights to heal. in karraga p.e. or in annihilator droid, or in the puzzle droid when the droids spawn (at least for the position i am healing since i am both tank healing and healing the 2 people running the consoles) all in hm, the bursts are far more often, dont let me get started with soa hm which without a sorc is simply impossible to complete (lack of bubble for lighting and lack of aoe healing for the start of phase 2)

[HeavenlyBluE]

sithwarriors values are over the place atm for starters.

I was specifically referring to the stat priority listed in the operative healing spreadsheet. It's available here: http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Operative-HPS-Spreadsheet

 

in karraga p.e. or in annihilator droid, or in the puzzle droid when the droids spawn

The neat thing about Karraga is that he does damage spikes, but you have time to get people topped off. It isn't really an emergency heal situation... and when he does the pull in, just RN on yourself as you run out and then dispell it off the stuck person.

 

For annihilator droid without a sorc, you have each operative hot one group before the aoe volley phase, and RN when it begins and cast heals from there. (with a sorc it's trivial - have everyone stack on his front left leg as the aoe phase starts and sorc drops circle)

 

For the puzzle droid don't hit the mines and if someone does dispell the dot? lol idk cuz I don't heal the top.. our sorc goes up there with another guy and I heal everyone on the bottom.

 

dont let me get started with soa hm which without a sorc is simply impossible to complete (lack of bubble for lighting and lack of aoe healing for the start of phase 2

That's funny cuz our first soa nm kill was with 2 operatives - sorc wasn't 50 yet. Jumping down is just a little slower, no big deal (oh and it helps a lot to tell the dps merc and operative to help heal for that phase ), and for lightning you need to make sure your players are running into it not waiting for it to hit them and top them off as soon as their name is announced on the screen.

 

Edit: For reference our regular group is:

Tank:

Assassin

 

Dps:

Marauder

Operative

Powertech

Sniper

Merc

 

Healers:

Operative

Sorc

 

Our first 3 weeks of raiding our other operative healed and we filled with a pug dps because our sorc has an lol job and can't level fast

Edited February 23, 2012 by HeavenlyBluE

[Riggz]

That hasn't been my experience at all. I quite frequently spam myself out of energy and then DS back up with no problem. An example would be when the tank gets carbonite probed on jarg and sorno, damage goes out of control and you have to spam, and then I can pretty much chain 4-5 DS while the raid is stable.

 

In fact, our sorc has been raiding with his hybrid PvP spec since last week cuz he doesn't even have to heal half the time. Although that might be cuz we've stopped doing nightmare mode (until the next progression content) cuz there's no point really in doing it more than a few times.

 

If you're finding that you can't spam heal the bursts and then DS back up, I think you might have to identify where your players are making mistakes and try to reduce it. Yes they are more frequent than once every 2 minutes, but you just find a way to deal with it.. sometimes I can only DS back up partway and have to hover in mid energy for a bit. Another good example is forman crusher.. You have to chain spam the tank during frenzy and then I DS.. I save adrenaline probe for the frenzy when adds spawn like right after it.

 

And your hot is the lowest priority really. Like on forman crusher, I'll refresh the hot right as frenzy pops and then start spamming.. but after frenzy ends I just worry about getting my energy back to full, and I'll let the hot drop quite frequently.. not only on that fight but many fights. Having your hot going isn't more important than getting back to high energy after burst healing was required.

 

 

Yea I've played with the spreadsheet that was published over at sithwarrior.. the author listed the stat priorities as cunning > power > crit to 350 (seems arbitrary) > surge > crit. But that information is pretty useless because it doesn't assign a value to the stat, such that you can compare for example... 45 cunning/34 power mod vs 61 cunning/11 crit mod. I.e. should I replace the rakata boot mod with one ripped out of an old colomi piece.

 

Other than the arbitrary and random idea that you should stack X amount of crit before getting surge (which is the mathematically better stat), his stat priorities make sense. I agree my surge value would be below my power value if I had more of it.

 

And you're right about the talents.. The only one I have to consider to refine my numbers is the +30% surge talent. I expect that will significantly boost the value of crit, but judging by the theorycraft published at sithwarrior, it still won't exceed power. Was planning on working that out later tonight to know for sure.. I might have to switch my 61 cunning/11 crit mod back in

 

 

I have 30% crit and 76% surge

I have zero alacrity basically but I never ever run out of energy.

My heals might take awhile but they heal like a freight train

 

I never have to worry about burst damage because kolto probe is always stacked on the tank

[Shroudveil]

I was specifically referring to the stat priority listed in the operative healing spreadsheet. It's available here: http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Operative-HPS-Spreadsheet

 

 

The neat thing about Karraga is that he does damage spikes, but you have time to get people topped off. It isn't really an emergency heal situation... and when he does the pull in, just RN on yourself as you run out and then dispell it off the stuck person.

 

For annihilator droid without a sorc, you have each operative hot one group before the aoe volley phase, and RN when it begins and cast heals from there. (with a sorc it's trivial - have everyone stack on his front left leg as the aoe phase starts and sorc drops circle)

 

For the puzzle droid don't hit the mines and if someone does dispell the dot? lol idk cuz I don't heal the top.. our sorc goes up there with another guy and I heal everyone on the bottom.

 

 

its nearly impossible for people to not hit the droids since they appear just in front ofthe consoles, also the dot isnt dispelable from what i've seen. since thy are running back and forth they usually have two stacks or mroe, and in between the healing to the i also need to heal the tank.. its kinda arg phase for me, esp since they spawn every 20secs or so.

 

in karagga hm i have never managed to top off the whole ops after he is ~40-30% of hp, the aoe damage is just too much for me (or our sorc healer is slacking^^), so i keep spamming heals here and there, trying to avoid droids, having that stupid spike interrupt half of my casts and etc.. it is usually doable, easy boss, but still i dont feel comfortable with half my ops running with 10k hp left at all times and dropping really low when things start to go boom.

 

anni droid.. well we have a sorc:P his aoe heal+ spot healing for me is usually enough to keep us up, but usually i am ooe after that.

 

soa's platforms are not that bad for me imo, i usually pregot half of the ops while in the first phase, and use sp procs and rn on the second half. once again i have to use adrenaline probe at some point.

 

the real problem for me is that we have the grand total of 0 rdps in our hm operation group, making things really difficult. also we have 0 offheals. so yeah, without the sorc we cant make this boss.

 

what my initial post was though, is that after having run those places with both alacrity and surge setups, surge is much better. when i was running alacrity enhancements (that is before i farmed the bh ones) i was always having energy problems at many of those fights, i had to rely a ton on the second healer and etc. when i am running crit/surge/power which am running now (i still have ~200ish alacrity) it is much smoother.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Shroudveil

[HeavenlyBluE]

Yea an alacrity setup definitely requires that you pay more attention and not miss DSes and dip low by mistake.

 

I can also understand how some of those bosses might be pretty hard with a retarded group comp.. like all melee lolz....

 

nm karagga is significantly easier with an assassin tank who just does an all taunt and force cloak when they pop.

[Ryemfoh]

i tried running with crit/alacrity for some time to see how it goes.

 

for sure, with said gear and the 4piece pve set i can burst heal with ease... and then be ooe in 5casts :/

 

if they ever fix DS to be moderatly useful, crit/alacrity wont be that bad, but in order for this to happen, they need to balance DS in such a way that a ki->infusion->ds circle will have both sustainability AND equal hps to simple ki->sp spam.

 

infusion for me, hits for like 2.5k and crits for 5k with said gear and it has a 55%to crit, its superior to sp which hits for ~1600 and crits for less than 3k, it also has ~1.25cast time instead of 1.5 which is also really nice for burst healing. ki is the same i guess, BUT DS hitting for ~200 and critting for something like 380 and requiring close to 2.5secs nerfs the whole rotation to the ground (also it only gives on average 4energy in those 2.5secs)

 

so as far as energy consumption goes, you spent 45energy in a 5.5sec cycle, and regenerate ~ 37energy. that is a -8energy/5.5secs so ~ -1.5energy/sec

 

ki->sp spam costs only 25energy in a 3.2sec window in which you regenerate ~19energy.

 

so, energy wise they are about the same. BUT ki->sp does ~ 1890hps and ki->infusion->ds closer to 1550 hps... which is like 20% less healing for the same amount of energy...

 

I don't understand why people are comparing apples with oranges here ... surely the comparison should be based on the time it takes to case KI -> SP with no Alacrity vs what you could be doing in the equivalent time with Alacrity?

 

So if I can do KI -> SP -> DS (1 tick) in that time then we are comparing 1 tick of DS (+ potential energy gain) to the average healing that I would get out of converting all the Alacrity to Surge/Crit.

 

The KI -> SP cycle is clearly superior to KI -> Inf -> DS ... why would that change just because your heals are landing slightly faster? All things equal, and as others have already stated, I would rather my heals land 0.2s faster than rely on crits to get me out of trouble.

[Zerikin_Loukbel]

Alacrity is not that great, however... Once your at the surge cap of 73-75% getting more surge is silly, you might as well just keep the alacrity you get.

[Shroudveil]

I don't understand why people are comparing apples with oranges here ... surely the comparison should be based on the time it takes to case KI -> SP with no Alacrity vs what you could be doing in the equivalent time with Alacrity?

 

So if I can do KI -> SP -> DS (1 tick) in that time then we are comparing 1 tick of DS (+ potential energy gain) to the average healing that I would get out of converting all the Alacrity to Surge/Crit.

 

The KI -> SP cycle is clearly superior to KI -> Inf -> DS ... why would that change just because your heals are landing slightly faster? All things equal, and as others have already stated, I would rather my heals land 0.2s faster than rely on crits to get me out of trouble.

 

cause 1 tick of DS is crap since DS starts the gcd, that means that if you want to compare something you then need to compare the hps of kp->sp vs kp->sp->2ticks of DS

 

nevertheless let's assume you have 450 alacrity (17%haste if you count the +4%) and 0 surge (50%crit healing) vs 0 alacrity (4%through talent) and 450surge (78,5% crit healing):

 

ki->sp:

surge:

base ki is 2800, base sp is 1700 40%crit chance, 208,5%crit healing for ki, 178,5%crit healing for sp, 4%alacrity:

 

(4015+2233)/(2*0,96+1,5)=1827hps

energy spent: 25in 3,42sec. that means ~1,3energy loss /sec

alacrity:

base is same, 40%crit chance, 170%crit healing for ki, 150%crit healing for sp, 17%alacrity:

ki->sp:

 

(3584+2040)/(2*0,83+1,5)=1779hps

energy spent 25in 3,17sec. that means ~1,9energy loss/sec

 

second rotation is 0,25sec faster. best DS use would be 2 ticks (1,6sec, which is the closest to the GCD). that is after 7 cycles:

 

7* 3,42 is 23,94sec, in which you would have healed: 43738hp

7*3,17 is 22.19sec +1,6sec for two ticks is 23,79sec.

 

DS hits for base 180/tick. with 64%crit chance and 150%crit healing that is ~237,5/tick, so 2 ticks are 475hp.

 

DS has a 64%chance /tick to restore 2 energy. so 2 ticks are +2,56energy. Also it costs nothing so in the time frame of 1,6sec you have regained another 9,6energy, for a total of

12,16energy gained.

 

energy loss for surge is simply: 1,3*23.94= 31.12energy loss

energy loss for alacrity is: 1,9*22.19 - 12,16 = 30 energy loss

 

so

total healing over 24sec for 450surge: 43738 (using the exact time, 23.94, it comes out as 1827hps, no surprises there)

total energy loss over this period: 31.12

total healing over 24sec for 450alacrity: 39951 (using the exact time, 23.79, it comes out as 1679hps)

total energy loss over this period: 30

 

 

so, in conclusion, after ~24sec, with surge you do ~3800hp (~10%) more healing while with 450alacrity you gain ~1more energy.

 

EDIT:

 

after fixing some math errors it is obvious that surge is better, even if both are above the soft cap. even better imo is ~200alacrity ~250surge but whatever.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Shroudveil

[Ryemfoh]

... even better imo is ~200alacrity ~250surge but whatever.

 

This is the analysis that we should be doing. As in any DR system, the aim is to find the ideal mix of stats to compliment your play-style. Looking at any 1 stat in isolation is a distortion of the truth due to the nature of the diminishing returns and interplay between stats.

 

To say that you should never take Alacrity is simply false.

 

Regardless of the maths, the value of landing a heal a few fractions of a second earlier are extremely difficult to quantify when those fractions might mean the difference between life and death.

[HeavenlyBluE]

Ryemfoh perfectly states it.

 

No one cares about 3800 extra healing done over 24 seconds or w/e your math works out to. (Assuming none of your surge goes to overhealing lol)

 

How much healing do you do in 1.7 seconds? The answer is 0. Whereas I do 2800-5500 depending on if I crit, so by my analysis 450 alacrity is infinity times better than 450 surge.

 

Now in a perfect world I'd have a power/surge set and a power/alacrity set for different fights. Obviously on annihilation droid power/surge is better. etc.. and it varies by fight.

Edited February 25, 2012 by HeavenlyBluE

[Shroudveil]

@the two above me.

 

exactly due to how much alacrity we have at our gear vs surge, whereas the best for the 2 stats would be for them to hover ~at soft caps, alacrity is stupid cause we have to mod out a ton of it.

 

having ~550alacrity vs having something like 200has only a really small amount of differance (less than 0,1sec in ki) compared to the 20%+ crit healing you receive from 200points into surge.

 

so we are forced to mod out our inferior, due to itemization, 58lvl enhancements for bh 56lvl ones.

 

also, our faster heal is, and will be despite alacrity, SP, which is unaffected. if i see that i dont have that 0,3secs to cast KI i will opt for a SP to give me that exrtra time.

 

if we didn't have a go-to instant no-cd heal then yes, alacrity would trump out surge due to usefulness, but currently, just no.

[Vaipyr]

No one cares about 3800 extra healing done over 24 seconds or w/e your math works out to. (Assuming none of your surge goes to overhealing lol)

 

How much healing do you do in 1.7 seconds? The answer is 0. Whereas I do 2800-5500 depending on if I crit, so by my analysis 450 alacrity is infinity times better than 450 surge.

 

This is the most absurd thing I've ever heard. What boss fight lasts only 1.7 seconds? Your healing over extended times is infinately more valuable than some miniscule amount of time barring the most extreme pvp scenarios (and even then the more total burst you can pump out often trumps a throwing out a little heal fast. PvP is all about big numbers per use).

 

Not to mention that potentially we are healing for x in your 1.7 seconds by using SP anyways.

 

Having SOME alacrity is cool, but only after hitting the ideal crit and surge softcaps, and even then I'd place alacrity behind power anyways as far as stacking.

[HeavenlyBluE]

This is the most absurd thing I've ever heard. What boss fight lasts only 1.7 seconds?

I've never met a boss that had a sustained period of intense healing for the entire fight. Now if fights in this game had a continuous healing requirement I would probably feel differently - like if annihilation droid cast his aoe missles non-stop the entire fight.

 

The difficulty in healing is in saving people who make mistakes, which happens in split second - few second periods.

 

the more total burst you can pump out often trumps a throwing out a little heal fast. PvP is all about big numbers per use

You're clearly not very good at PvP. PvP is all about correct positioning and coordination with your teammates.

 

And I've never met an operative who had more power than I do - which is a consistent throughput increase. Crit/surge only works when you crit, making you a slave to the RNG.

 

I've never seen any evidence that crit is as good as power before its softcap even on paper - completely disregarding the esoteric factors that make crit inherently worse than power (RNG slave, more susceptible to reduced value due to overhealing).

 

There's a much better argument for power/surge and I don't have a major problem with operatives who have a well-reasoned position for stacking power/surge - although I feel it's sub-optimal. Crit/surge is pretty much completely invalid.

 

The only crit you should have on your gear is from the best in slot ear (endowment serenity relay) and implants (colomi crafted crits), rakata enforcer belt, and matrix cube.

[stephenjohnp]

I believe Alacrity is a tertiary stat and when compared to the now useless Surge, it has much better benefits to dedicated healers.

[wusker]

Wow you guys are teaching me alot, and confusing me at the same time. you both sound like amazing healers so i have a question. i need basics here, what i the "soft cap" of surge, power, and crit?

 

Also I am planning on not focusing on alacrity (as a secondary stat) as from not just this thread but many I have read on others sites, that continual heals with large crit bursts is far better than being able to heal a few seconds faster. But i have never healed a HM or NM so i have no first hand experience on this. What I would like to see is getting the soft caps on each of the 3 secondary stats that you mentioned then seeing if I can change the mods/enhancements to add in alacrity and make a balance somewhat but moreover focused on a power, surge, crit then alacrity.

 

Awesome thread and great ideas keep it coming so i can keep learning.

[HeavenlyBluE]

Well power has no soft-cap, and since it's better than crit point for point, there's no reason to ever use a crit mod or enhancement.

 

The best way to gear for pure on-paper throughput is power/surge enhancements in every slot, and the high power mods in each slot (i.e. 45 cunning/34 power at columi gear level).

 

For that kind of setup your best in slot implants would be the rakata ones from daily badges, and the ear piece I'm actually not sure and too lazy to go figure it out

 

Edit: Here's another reason why crit is bad in terms of wipe prevention. Lets assume you have a situation where you have to spam 6 consecutive heals on the tank to keep him alive, and lets say that if at least 1 doesn't crit, you're going to wipe anyways. (An example where a situation like this might be realistic is forman crusher frenzy)

 

Now if you're geared for crit and have 43% crit, your chance of critting at least once is 96.57%. If you're geared for no crit like I am and have 36% crit, your chance of critting at least once is 93.13%. So by gearing for crit, your odds of preventing a wipe have increased by 3.44%.

 

However.. by gearing alacrity, you make the entire analysis moot because it takes you 10.5s to chain 6 heals together. I can cast a 7th heal.. an additional KInj, finishing at 10.43s spent. So my 7th heal in the same time frame negates my need to crit to keep the tank alive, and I prevent the wipe 100% of the time.

Edited February 28, 2012 by HeavenlyBluE

[Oubliettes]

However.. by gearing alacrity, you make the entire analysis moot because it takes you 10.5s to chain 6 heals together. I can cast a 7th heal.. an additional KInj, finishing at 10.43s spent. So my 7th heal in the same time frame negates my need to crit to keep the tank alive, and I prevent the wipe 100% of the time.

 

Is that honestly worth it though? This is only possible once every two minutes. You can't cast more than 5 consecutive heals without OoE'ing yourself unless Adrenaline Probe is up, and that's assuming you started casting with 100 energy. Even then, it's not really doing us any favors outside of burst situations.

 

And are you factoring in the increased chance to crit on KP/RN? Crit is RNGy as hell, sure, it's in it's nature, but alacrity is useful for three of our six abilities, crit helps them all.