Niil Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I'm not saying you prefer this gameplay because you are ignorant. I'm saying that the statement "This is what an MMO HAS to be" is ignorant, because it's simply not true. Why? Because you don't agree with my opinion? So my opinion is ignorant? Ad hominem much? To me, you take away elements of the game that you dislike and it's no longer an mmo-rpg to me. It's like playing tabletop and not physically rolling the dice. It loses it's appeal. I know a lot of people play tabletop remotely via computer apps that allow them to connect together and share a gaming space. In my opinion good for them. But it's not my thing and would ruin the experience if that particular element is removed. I'm certainly not going to bash their gaming preference like you did here to folks who enjoy this type of game like you did. You're bashing something I like for the reasons I like it, telling me that it's ignorant that it has to be this way (when I never argued it had to be, just that that isn't what it actually is, nor was it advertised as such, and the genre was built on this type of gameplay, i.e. complaining that an orange isn't an apple because you prefer apples). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khelmar Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 You completely left out combat strategy including heat for BHs, ammo for troopers, force and focus for sith and jedi, etc. I will say that the trooper/BH do have a interesting resource system that I haven't really seen in a game. The Smuggler/IA is pretty much a WoW rogue with the previous mechanic mixed in there. Why you brought up the focus/force is beyond me because it's just a mana system from what I've seen and doesn't really have anything amazingly different about it. On a side note can you post/point out where he called people "morons"? I haven't found that and would like to know where it is if it even exists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mavsynchroid Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I don't buy CoD, Resident Evil, or Pokemon games because I know I will not enjoy them from a gameplay and design standpoint. Gasp!!!!! Resident Evil!?!? Wash your mouth out!!! At least the originals were gurrrrrrr RATE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnoggyMack Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Well I did say at the top that I'm not an MMO kinda guy. So noted. Can't wait to read more reviews from people who don't like the kind of game they're reviewing. I wonder what they'll bring to the table? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stethnorun Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Just a heads-up, op. Your site has some broken/odd links. In the alphabetical list for reviews your "D" link (http://http//objectivistgamer.com/?cat=26) gives an error, and the E and F links go to your D page. I stopped there. I was just trying to get an idea of the games you reviewed and see a lot of console-first ones instead of PC-first/PC-only/MMOs. Although I did see Civ 5, PC-only. PC only for now. And yeah thanks for the heads up. The genre categories work though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mavsynchroid Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I will say that the trooper/BH do have a interesting resource system that I haven't really seen in a game. The Smuggler/IA is pretty much a WoW rogue with the previous mechanic mixed in there. Why you brought up the focus/force is beyond me because it's just a mana system from what I've seen and doesn't really have anything amazingly different about it. On a side note can you post/point out where he called people "morons"? I haven't found that and would like to know where it is if it even exists. "When I would mention in the game’s general chat that SW:TOR played almost exactly like World of Warcraft, aside from the morons who responded with “How can it be like WoW, when it’s in space?!”" As for focus/force, doesn't one add up as you use certain attacks and another one just act like normal mana? Thought focus builds. Sad that I don't remember since i lvled a sent to 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asuka Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 The problems with this review are that I feel it suffers from inherent negativity that makes no attempt to critique the game for what it is (instead judging it for what it is not), and I feel the writer made no attempt to familiarize himself with what the game was prior to playing (as there was plenty of media showing the game to be a WOW styled MMO in the months leading up to release). As a result he is disappointed that the game was not something it was never shown to be. Yes, TOR is an MMO and it maintains many of the popular and common aspects of MMO gameplay. They could have made it more like DA:O, ME, or even an Elder Scrolls game. But they didn't. Sorry. Maybe it would have been more difficult to develop, maybe it would have created a limited audience by requiring a certain level of machine, or maybe they were just playing it safe. I don't know. Further, most games are derivatives of one another. You shoot stuff in FPS's, you button mash in action, and you select actions in RPGs. Sometimes they cross, but there is rarely a lot of innovation. AC has been the same game with minor tweaks for 5 years, Every FPS has essentially the same controls, and the most creativity you get in RPGs is open worlds mixed with action controls. So, as a result, I'm not really sure how this reviewer can enjoy any game. Perhaps he is just disappointed that TOR wasn't more, but it is difficult not to get, "every game that doesn't innovate is a failures" out of his "review". Overall though, I tend to match the writer in terms of gamer preference (generally single player with little online or MMO experience), and I enjoy TOR. It is fun and engaging, I don't have to play with others but I can. Heck, even PvP has a level of enjoyment for me (and I generally refuse to play against others online in any other game). But again, I didn't come to TOR expecting a different game. Sadly rants too often get lumped in with reviews. While I respect you opinion and your right to have it, I feel like this opinion on the game suffers from overt negativity that makes no attempt to meet the game half way. Perhaps a better title of the post should be, "A Review of my issues of SWTOR" since even really lousy games get nods for what they try to/do accomplish when reviewed by professional critics; something this post lacks. This^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khelmar Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) "When I would mention in the game’s general chat that SW:TOR played almost exactly like World of Warcraft, aside from the morons who responded with “How can it be like WoW, when it’s in space?!”" As for focus/force, doesn't one add up as you use certain attacks and another one just act like normal mana? Thought focus builds. Sad that I don't remember since i lvled a sent to 50. 1: Ah ok thank you for that. 2: Whoops brain farted. Yeah the consular and the SI have a mana type system, but the JK and SW's system is pretty much just a warrior in WoW with a rage meter being replaced with focus. You could say that you get focus from your abilities and that's new, but you have to remember this game doesn't have an auto-attack like WoW does so those abilities make up for that. Also I don't count the first ability you get as an "auto-attack", it's really just a last-resort/I-don't-wanna-waste-energy-for-this-one-guy type of thing. Also I have a lvl 34 or something sentinel as well and like I said I just derped, no need for sarcastic remarks like that. *edit* before you say "but the first ability for a JK IS a focus builder!" it is, but WoW also had some other ways of getting it more quickly from talents and the like. I haven't played WoW in quite some time but from my knowledge that's how it was. Edited February 16, 2012 by Khelmar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightfalll Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 LIPSTICK ON A PIG??!?!? lmao, epic! Sadly, for the most part, true.............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stethnorun Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 "When I would mention in the game’s general chat that SW:TOR played almost exactly like World of Warcraft, aside from the morons who responded with “How can it be like WoW, when it’s in space?!”" As for focus/force, doesn't one add up as you use certain attacks and another one just act like normal mana? Thought focus builds. Sad that I don't remember since i lvled a sent to 50. Hey, I stand by that. Those people are morons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stethnorun Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 LIPSTICK ON A PIG??!?!? lmao, epic! Sadly, for the most part, true.............. It's a common colloquialism...Obama used it in his first campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khelmar Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Hey, I stand by that. Those people are morons. At least you stick with what you say without apologizing to avoid getting people mad at you for your opinion. Though I have to agree that some people could be called "morons" when they say stuff like that, I tend to call them "fanboys" in most cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaftyMcShaft Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Second: I think you are looking at my point from a different angle. It appears to me that, you see me saying, "It's exactly what the devs said it was gonna be" and I'm merely saying, it is exactly what all the media and information purported it to be. This is not to imply that you cannot be critical of it. Criticize it all you want, but don't complain that you weren't getting what you paid for when you had every opportunity to be an informed customer. I see what you're saying, and I think we mostly agree. Every paragraph you basically said "you were expecting X, but the game never said it was going to have X." I guess I just don't think the things I was expecting were completely unreasonable given the year and the budget. You can fool me and sell me a car with a 1 gallon gas tank. You're right, you never explicitly stated there was an 18 gallon tank in there. I could have checked. It just never occurred to me that I'd have to check that. For instance I was expecting deep combat mechanics. Interesting choices to make in terms of which abilities I used when or cooldowns to time. Mob AI that actually does something besides stand like a statue until I approach and then fight to the death every time. So, no, they never explicitly stated it was going to have deep combat mechanics, or a challenging endgame, or intelligent AI, or something more than lifeless statue worlds, or seamless loading between worlds/zones. I just kind of expected those things out of a modern video game. And there's only so much "research" you can do. I didn't get into the beta, and game "journalism" is not even a thing. We all know that, right? That game sites are just PR machines, and if you don't give the game a 9/10 you don't get access to previews, which means no page views? So, the "research" you can do is via the developer interview videos on the swtor site, and biased, bought-off game "journalists." I did have much higher expectations. That they were not met...well, I'm still gonna blame BioWare more than I'm going to blame myself. Edited February 16, 2012 by ShaftyMcShaft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mavsynchroid Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 1: Ah ok thank you for that. 2: Whoops brain farted. Yeah the consular and the SI have a mana type system, but the JK and SW's system is pretty much just a warrior in WoW with a rage meter being replaced with focus. You could say that you get focus from your abilities and that's new, but you have to remember this game doesn't have an auto-attack like WoW does so those abilities make up for that. Also I don't count the first ability you get as an "auto-attack", it's really just a last-resort/I-don't-wanna-waste-energy-for-this-one-guy type of thing. Also I have a lvl 34 or something sentinel as well and like I said I just derped, no need for sarcastic remarks like that. *edit* before you say "but the first ability for a JK IS a focus builder!" it is, but WoW also had some other ways of getting it more quickly from talents and the like. I haven't played WoW in quite some time but from my knowledge that's how it was. Sarcastic? Lol you misunderstood me man. I really was unsure of myself. I forgot whether or not the sent built focus first before spending it. I was calling myself sad for not remembering even though I lvled the guy to 50. On a BH now so it's all different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kourage Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Terrible review from a "gamer" that really doesn't understand anything at all. You don't like MMOs. You aren't experienced in playing them. All you can compare it too is WoW. Edited February 16, 2012 by Kourage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mavsynchroid Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 At least you stick with what you say without apologizing to avoid getting people mad at you for your opinion. Though I have to agree that some people could be called "morons" when they say stuff like that, I tend to call them "fanboys" in most cases. Whether or not they ARE morons, the point is that it is unprofessional to insult people like that during a review. Sigh.. the fanboy vs whiners drama never stops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stethnorun Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) At least you stick with what you say without apologizing to avoid getting people mad at you for your opinion. Though I have to agree that some people could be called "morons" when they say stuff like that, I tend to call them "fanboys" in most cases. No I honestly believe that they can't understand core ideas and concepts...and that when the surface details vary, they don't see the common thread. To them, WoW and TOR are nothing alike because they differ in look and setting. Edited February 16, 2012 by stethnorun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stethnorun Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Terrible review from a "gamer" that really doesn't understand anything at all. You don't like MMOs. You aren't experienced in playing them. All you can compare it too is WoW. And Galaxies and Everquest...and DDO in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stethnorun Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Whether or not they ARE morons, the point is that it is unprofessional to insult people like that during a review. Sigh.. the fanboy vs whiners drama never stops. I'm not calling them fanboys. I think their inability to inter-relate concepts is not unique the games, but to all life. I've met these people in real life, and they can't connect concepts together to save their lives. Morons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khelmar Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Sarcastic? Lol you misunderstood me man. I really was unsure of myself. I forgot whether or not the sent built focus first before spending it. I was calling myself sad for not remembering even though I lvled the guy to 50. On a BH now so it's all different. Ops my bad. It's hard to figure out how someone is saying someone when it's only text and there is no emotion in what someone types. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirfin Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 I see what you're saying, and I think we mostly agree. Every paragraph you basically said "you were expecting X, but the game never said it was going to have X." I guess I just don't think the things I was expecting were completely unreasonable given the year and the budget. You can fool me and sell me a car with a 1 gallon gas tank. You're right, you never explicitly stated there was an 18 gallon tank in there. I could have checked. It just never occurred to me that I'd have to check that. For instance I was expecting deep combat mechanics. Interesting choices to make in terms of which abilities I used when or cooldowns to time. Mob AI that actually does something besides stand like a statue until I approach and then fight to the death every time. So, no, they never explicitly stated it was going to have deep combat mechanics, or a challenging endgame, or intelligent AI, or something more than lifeless statue worlds, or seamless loading between worlds/zones. I just kind of expected those things out of a modern video game. And there's only so much "research" you can do. I didn't get into the beta, and game "journalism" is not even a thing. We all know that, right? That game sites are just PR machines, and if you don't give the game a 9/10 you don't get access to previews, which means no page views? So, the "research" you can do is via the developer interview videos on the swtor site, and biased, bought-off game "journalists." I did have much higher expectations. That they were not met...well, I'm still gonna blame BioWare more than I'm going to blame myself. Yea, I figured that we were on the same page just looking at it differently. The other thing is, that I think the things that you are suggesting here are on a different level than what the OP was implying. How the combat system works and engages the player is far more difficult to research than, does it play with a cooldown and activation system similar to other MMOs. You were looking for the former, and indeed it will be difficult to know this ahead of time. I feel the OP was looking for the later. And of course it is difficult to get unbiased info from game journalists or the devs. But heck, why even bother. I figured dev videos and interviews would say far more implicitly than listening to the marketing. I figure for the basics such as graphics, overall combat system, class and race options, etc, there was more than enough info (Kotaku had an entire video on the character creator from Beta). This is again limited to the generalities. Unfortunately for the more complex, engaging, or unintentional aspects of a game, we sometimes just hope for the best,...or wait to buy. Not to beat a dead horse, but who knew Skyrim would be broken (especially for ps3) before release, but dang if I didn't want that game, so I took the risk...and kinda got screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mavsynchroid Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Still not grasping the point. They could be the biggest moops in the world and you could be completely justified in calling them morons, but the point was is that it's not professional to use words like that in a review. Is this supposed to be an attempt at a professional review? Not flaming you, it's a serious question. If so then language like that doesn't help the review look well thought out and properly criticized or praised. That's all I'm saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stethnorun Posted February 16, 2012 Author Share Posted February 16, 2012 Still not grasping the point. They could be the biggest moops in the world and you could be completely justified in calling them morons, but the point was is that it's not professional to use words like that in a review. Is this supposed to be an attempt at a professional review? Not flaming you, it's a serious question. If so then language like that doesn't help the review look well thought out and properly criticized or praised. That's all I'm saying. My goal is to entertain and/or inform. No where does it say I have to be professional. Further, I think people can appreciate unfiltered honesty over diplomatic BS. They get enough of that from their politicians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mavsynchroid Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Ops my bad. It's hard to figure out how someone is saying someone when it's only text and there is no emotion in what someone types. I don't forgive you.... Gimmie money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krinaman Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 The guy starts his "review" with "I hate MMOs' stopped reading right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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