stethnorun Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 You're projecting universal fail, when in fact it's just fail for you... I agree completely with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stethnorun Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 This looked to me not like an MMO-lover reviewing the game (an MMO lover would be MUCH MUCH harder on it, from a PvP and PvE end-game progression and balance standpoint), but like a gamer reviewing a game. I don't have to love racing games to point out bad graphics or cruddy controls and lack of customization in a particular racing game. I also agree completely with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acri Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Stopped reading at "there are 4 classes." Assassin =/= Sorcerer Marauder =/= Juggernaut Mercenary =/= Powertech Sniper =/= Operative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuuj Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I really think it should have been titled a pessimist gamer review. I could pull out more than a few examples of what I mean but this one stands out the most. Community – Do you like other people? I purposefully picked a PvE (player vs enemy) server (as opposed to a PvP server) because I assumed they would be more like me in temperament. Aside from people dog-piling on me whenever I mentioned WoW, they all seemed like a pleasant enough lot. Players seem to run the gamut from young teens to mature 30-somethings, in equal measure. The main thing I noticed is that people rarely talked in general chat, with only the occasional request for a group to take on Heroic (extra hard) missions. But then again, other servers might be more raucous. [/Quote] I really couldn't find anything wrong with the community of the server I was on but then again, others might be more unruly/unpleasant/loud/etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stethnorun Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 I really think it should have been titled a pessimist gamer review. I could pull out more than a few examples of what I mean but this one stands out the most. I really couldn't find anything wrong with the community of the server I was on but then again, others might be more unruly/unpleasant/loud/etc. No I meant raucous as in boisterous, not boorish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightblaster Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Well I did say at the top that I'm not an MMO kinda guy. Which makes the review pretty much useless due to not being able to distinguish between bias against the genre and a review of the game as compared with the rest of the genre. It's like someone who doesn't like first person shooters very much reviewing Battlefield 3. It doesn't tell you much, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
souloferdrick Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Its a mass market mmo designed for the mass market mmo player to make gobs of money. Which means you get an over hyped and mediocre product (very) loosely based on another major brand or franchise for an easy sell. ToR, in that regard, didnt let anyone down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niil Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 http://objectivistgamer.com/?p=890 My take on this game. Objective review this is not. Let me sum this up for people so they don't waste time. "Hi, I don't like mmo's but I'm going to play this mmo and tell you what I think about it. *Insert a myriad of complaints about how an orange isn't an apple, but you like apples better.* See this game sucks and nope, I'm not biased!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SootyTX Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Didn't read the review because, unlike the OP, I did my research and read most of the thread first - its very obvious, despite the title of this thread, that the article is neither objective (I refuse to use made up words) nor a review, and is therefore of no interest to me. If only the OP had done the same before playing the game. I find it highly ironic that the OP chose to title the thread as he did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stethnorun Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Which makes the review pretty much useless due to not being able to distinguish between bias against the genre and a review of the game as compared with the rest of the genre. It's like someone who doesn't like first person shooters very much reviewing Battlefield 3. It doesn't tell you much, really. Unless you happen to be of the same background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stethnorun Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Didn't read the review because, unlike the OP, I did my research and read most of the thread first - its very obvious, despite the title of this thread, that the article is neither objective (I refuse to use made up words) nor a review, and is therefore of no interest to me. If only the OP had done the same before playing the game. I find it highly ironic that the OP chose to title the thread as he did. All words are "made-up" until they are just part of the language And as I keep saying, Objectivist is not a synonym for objective, even if they are related. Maybe do your "research" on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khelmar Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) Stopped reading at "there are 4 classes." Assassin =/= Sorcerer Marauder =/= Juggernaut Mercenary =/= Powertech Sniper =/= Operative You do know there technically are just 4 "classes" right? Those other things you are listing are advance classes, it is part of the talent tree and not an actual "class". The advance class "fine-tunes" your class to how you want him to play like and then you use the usual spec tree from other MMOs from there. You will still get like around 50% if not more of your abilities being the same and some of them are gonna be more or less useful based on how you spec just like other MMOs. A feral druid will play differently from a resto druid, and shadow priest will play differently from a holy priest. Also people who say "I stopped reading at --" is becoming really annoying. I understand if what the person said was a sign of obvious trolling but it wasn't. Either you're not open-minded at all and refuse to see if any of his points have merit, or you are a troll. *EDIT TO AVOID DOUBLE POST* Niil Objective review this is not. Let me sum this up for people so they don't waste time. "Hi, I don't like mmo's but I'm going to play this mmo and tell you what I think about it. *Insert a myriad of complaints about how an orange isn't an apple, but you like apples better.* See this game sucks and nope, I'm not biased!" Yet if he didn't say that people would presume he didn't like the game because he was jaded by other mmos. People who are valiantly defending a game will use these tactics to disclaim everything a person says because it is not favorable towards said game. I don't mind if people like that game, but at the same time I've leveled up 2 people to 50 and have 2 lvl 30s + other low level alts and I've noticed several flaws of the game. I will agree that someone that doesn't like FPS games and doing a review of how he doesn't like a new one that he just tried is in most cases makes it a very unbalanced review. However if one becomes jaded with the same type of genre but really wants a game in that genre to revolutionize it to make it something new and fresh, but the game he THOUGHT was gonna do it didn't even if the company who made it claimed it would, then it is completely justified. I for one have enjoyed my days in WoW and played some EQ1 before that including some other short-lived mmo subs, but that doesn't mean I hate the MMO genre as a whole, I just want these games to actually do something that is not part of the same formula and gives us something completely different. Anyways that's my rant/edited rant. Good day. Edited February 15, 2012 by Khelmar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stethnorun Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) You do know there technically are just 4 "classes" right? Those other things you are listing are advance classes, it is part of the talent tree and not an actual "class". The advance class "fine-tunes" your class to how you want him to play like and then you use the usual spec tree from other MMOs from there. You will still get like around 50% if not more of your abilities being the same and some of them are gonna be more or less useful based on how you spec just like other MMOs. A feral druid will play differently from a resto druid, and shadow priest will play differently from a holy priest. Also people who say "I stopped reading at --" is becoming really annoying. I understand if what the person said was a sign of obvious trolling but it wasn't. Either you're not open-minded at all and refuse to see if any of his points have merit, or you are a troll. If I had to make a guess, I would say that most people who say "I stopped reading at..." are BSing. I think even when you hate what someone is saying, you read it because hating it is almost as much fun as loving it, and sometimes more. It's just another way to say "Your opinion is invalid because you said XYZ"...which is fine. Edited February 15, 2012 by stethnorun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niil Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) You do know there technically are just 4 "classes" right? Those other things you are listing are advance classes, it is part of the talent tree and not an actual "class". The advance class "fine-tunes" your class to how you want him to play like and then you use the usual spec tree from other MMOs from there. You will still get like around 50% if not more of your abilities being the same and some of them are gonna be more or less useful based on how you spec just like other MMOs. A feral druid will play differently from a resto druid, and shadow priest will play differently from a holy priest. Also people who say "I stopped reading at --" is becoming really annoying. I understand if what the person said was a sign of obvious trolling but it wasn't. Either you're not open-minded at all and refuse to see if any of his points have merit, or you are a troll. Labels are what they are. A jugg is vastly different than a marauder, an operative si vastly different than a sniper. A very simple example, Powertech and Mercenary get base class abilities while they level up. They both get powers from their talent choices. And then they get powers that are specific to their advance class choice that are not available in the talent tree that are not shared by all Bounty Hunters. Other games have used a base class advanced class concept, and people didn't refer to the base class as their class. The advanced class is what defines a character, i.e. the class. You can argue semantics all you want, the reality is that the term "class" has a definitive meaning in an RPG. In short, you're wrong, and claiming you're not wrong by arguing semantics is silly. Edit: Oops, wrong person. Let me re-write as I thought you were the same person who wrote the op. There's nothing to see in his points. He said he didn't like mmo's, then complained about features of mmo's. That's not objective. That's not unbiased. It's like walking up to a bunch of bikers and saying, "I don't like motorcycles and I think your motorcycles are stupid." He's going to get a negative response. Sorry watching SoA =) Edited February 15, 2012 by Niil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Failstar Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Didn't read the review but I clicked on the website and read through this thread. I cannot believe nobody pointed out that the user was just doing this to try to get hits/comments on his blog. I wish I could take back my click, and no, I won't be bookmarking it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaftyMcShaft Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 If I had to make a guess, I would say that most people who say "I stopped reading at..." are BSing. I think even when you hate what someone is saying, you read it because hating it is almost as much fun as loving it, and sometimes more. It's just another way to say "Your opinion is invalid because you said XYZ"...which is fine. What I think is funny is that pretty much no one has actually countered any of your points, except for semantics like whether an Advanced Class counts as a different class. But nobody's actually addressed your points and said "No way, there's tons of customization! And the combat's interesting and deep! And the graphics are amazing! And the space combat is phenomenal!" You have gotten absolutely nothing but ad hominem attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaftyMcShaft Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Didn't read the review but I clicked on the website and read through this thread. I cannot believe nobody pointed out that the user was just doing this to try to get hits/comments on his blog. Egads! Someone wrote something on their blog...and then advertised it for others to read?! The cad! I'd love to comment on your blog, but I'm sure as a responsible author you've blocked all search engines and forbade anyone from linking to it or mentioning it to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niil Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Niil Yet if he didn't say that people would presume he didn't like the game because he was jaded by other mmos. People who are valiantly defending a game will use these tactics to disclaim everything a person says because it is not favorable towards said game. I don't mind if people like that game, but at the same time I've leveled up 2 people to 50 and have 2 lvl 30s + other low level alts and I've noticed several flaws of the game. I will agree that someone that doesn't like FPS games and doing a review of how he doesn't like a new one that he just tried is in most cases makes it a very unbalanced review. However if one becomes jaded with the same type of genre but really wants a game in that genre to revolutionize it to make it something new and fresh, but the game he THOUGHT was gonna do it didn't even if the company who made it claimed it would, then it is completely justified. I for one have enjoyed my days in WoW and played some EQ1 before that including some other short-lived mmo subs, but that doesn't mean I hate the MMO genre as a whole, I just want these games to actually do something that is not part of the same formula and gives us something completely different. Anyways that's my rant/edited rant. Good day. That's an entirely different argument, which doesn't apply in this case. The op argued against the mmorpg genre, after he stated he didn't like mmo's but wanted to give it a try. I could actually debate the issues I have with swtor, the things I like about swtor, and base those opinions on how I like mmorpg's, what I would like to see in mmorpg's, and what I expected of this specific mmorpg in comparison to others. Gameplay footage was available long before the game came out. There's a level of intellectual honesty here that's missing. The op is either trolling for responses or just looking to bad mouth swtor. That's not objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stethnorun Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Didn't read the review but I clicked on the website and read through this thread. I cannot believe nobody pointed out that the user was just doing this to try to get hits/comments on his blog. I wish I could take back my click, and no, I won't be bookmarking it. Yeah, because I get so much ad revenue from your viewership The only thing I get out of you reading is that maybe you like my stuff and leave comments that I can respond to. I make no money off my site and my only real goal is the hope of MAYBE catching the eye of someone in the industry so I can go from low-level freelancer to professional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stethnorun Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 That's an entirely different argument, which doesn't apply in this case. The op argued against the mmorpg genre, after he stated he didn't like mmo's but wanted to give it a try. I could actually debate the issues I have with swtor, the things I like about swtor, and base those opinions on how I like mmorpg's, what I would like to see in mmorpg's, and what I expected of this specific mmorpg in comparison to others. Gameplay footage was available long before the game came out. There's a level of intellectual honesty here that's missing. The op is either trolling for responses or just looking to bad mouth swtor. That's not objective. Actually, I was hired by Game-Over.com to write a SWTOR review because the other writers passed on it and my editor wanted it done. I passed on it too, originally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stethnorun Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) What I think is funny is that pretty much no one has actually countered any of your points, except for semantics like whether an Advanced Class counts as a different class. But nobody's actually addressed your points and said "No way, there's tons of customization! And the combat's interesting and deep! And the graphics are amazing! And the space combat is phenomenal!" You have gotten absolutely nothing but ad hominem attacks. Good point, though I still maintain that Tirfin made some good points about my general perspective. But you are correct, people seem to agree with my main points simply by way of not addressing them. They just don't approve of the fact that I chose to focus on them and not on others. Edited February 15, 2012 by stethnorun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Safiir Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 You can play a nice Orc or a nasty Paladin! No, you can't. In every other mmorpg you're a soulless quest-turning machine. How you act towards other players is another thing. In the game world you're nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stethnorun Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 No, you can't. In every other mmorpg you're a soulless quest-turning machine. How you act towards other players is another thing. In the game world you're nothing. Point taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Failstar Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) Yeah, because I get so much ad revenue from your viewership The only thing I get out of you reading is that maybe you like my stuff and leave comments that I can respond to. I make no money off my site and my only real goal is the hope of MAYBE catching the eye of someone in the industry so I can go from low-level freelancer to professional. I don't work in the industry, but this caught my eye. "Originally publish at Game-Over." Proofing. PROOFING! PROOOOOOOFFFFFFIIIIINNNNNNNNG! I just hate when people link blogs when you could copy/paste what you wanna say here about this specific game, which you I assume "attacked" with a ton of comparisons which typically goes something like "This game did this better, this game did that better, or WoW did it better" (Amirite?) I'd say if you wanna catch eyes, you write a review that does NOT compare itself to anything, and only involves your direct experience with the game. Your next review, this one is already probably shot. GL. Edited February 15, 2012 by Failstar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stethnorun Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 I don't work in the industry, but this caught my eye. "Originally publish at Game-Over." Proofing. PROOFING! PROOOOOOOFFFFFFIIIIINNNNNNNNG! Good catch. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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