Objectivist Gamer Review

[JustTed]

What does "Objectivist" mean in this context?

[Arkerus]

This forum is filled with angry SWG players who (for some reason) thought that SWTOR was a follow up to SWG.

 

They never, ever advertised any features like that. I don't know how those folks bought the game under that assumption. Then they come here to the forums to say that the "social features" are missing. That claim itself is absurd. What they meant to say it that the "social features they wanted" are missing.

 

Its like eating a banana and complaining it doesn't taste like chicken.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Arkerus

[kevlarto]

another opinion other than my own, why do i care, I don't why do people read crap from these people, if you play the game and know what you like, why on earth do you care what anyone has to say../shrug

[Tirfin]

Well to a certain extent, I judge all games by all games. Obviously they can't all compete with each other in all (or even a lot) of categories, but, at least where they focus their attention, they should be able to excel. No, I was NEVER expecting this game to play like Assassin's Creed or Rainbow Six, but that wasn't really my point. My point was, in terms of combat gameplay, it doesn't really do anything in a unique or interesting way. It's simply copying a formula that was stale in the late 90's, much less the 2010's.

 

I will admit that innovation is probably the main thing that gets me excited, as a gamer. And in that regard, I'm probably in the minority. As evidenced by how popular Call of Duty and Star Craft is, most gamers prefer the familiar. To that end, TOR is VERY familiar, thus, I can see why most enjoy it. Truth be told, I enjoy playing TOR with my girlfriend since there are so few co-op games to choose from.

 

Fair enough, I appreciate the explanation on the points that I took the wrong way. I also appreciate innovation (AC was such an awesome control scheme idea) and think it is important for moving the industry forward. I think we can agree that doing a superb job executing ideas already present in games can also be a great experience.

 

Personally, I mostly enjoy the game not because it is familiar, but for the story. In addition I have found myself in a pretty nice guild that I am excited to help with 50+ content.

 

I am glad we both get some joy out of this game. I wish my GF would join me, but alas, I will have to satisfy myself with co-op where I can find it

Edited February 15, 2012 by Tirfin

[stethnorun]

The biggest thing I had an issue with is you talk about how the mirror classes are exactly the same, well that was done completely on purpose, why you dont grasp that idk

 

Of course I realize that was done on purpose. I never thought they did that by accident

[stethnorun]

What does "Objectivist" mean in this context?

 

Honestly, it's just a way to distinguish myself. Check my FAQs page, where I explain this a bit more: http://objectivistgamer.com/?page_id=60

[stethnorun]

Not all innovation is positive. There are many MMOs out there with different types of gameplay, but are far less popular. No, you cannot just dismiss it as people wanting the familiar. Maybe the reason why people like it, is wait for it,...it is a better style that works/is popular and only needs small tweaks and improvements. People clamoring for innovation for the sake of innovation really have no idea what they are getting themselves into.

 

If you don't understand my point, I will refer you to Hellgate: London as an example. I would regard it as a fairly innovative MMO (think FPSer style with Diablo elements) that became a pile of poop. A lot of things sound good on paper...

 

Well obviously I meant innovation that leads to better gameplay (e.g. Assassin's Creed's free-run).

[stethnorun]

Fair enough, I appreciate the explanation on the points that I took the wrong way. I also appreciate innovation (AC was such an awesome control scheme idea) and think it is important for moving the industry forward. I think we can agree that doing a superb job executing ideas already present in games can also be a great experience.

 

Personally, I mostly enjoy the game not because it is familiar, but for the story. In addition I have found myself in a pretty nice guild that I am excited to help with 50+ content.

 

I am glad we both get some joy out of this game. I wish my GF would join me, but alas, I will have to satisfy myself with co-op where I can find it

 

Yeah the stories in this game, like I said in the review, are of varying quality. I find myself slogging through the combat just to get to the next companion.

[ArtMonster]

The problems with this review are that I feel it suffers from inherent negativity that makes no attempt to critique the game for what it is (instead judging it for what it is not), and I feel the writer made no attempt to familiarize himself with what the game was prior to playing (as there was plenty of media showing the game to be a WOW styled MMO in the months leading up to release). As a result he is disappointed that the game was not something it was never shown to be.

 

Yes, TOR is an MMO and it maintains many of the popular and common aspects of MMO gameplay. They could have made it more like DA:O, ME, or even an Elder Scrolls game. But they didn't. Sorry. Maybe it would have been more difficult to develop, maybe it would have created a limited audience by requiring a certain level of machine, or maybe they were just playing it safe. I don't know.

 

Further, most games are derivatives of one another. You shoot stuff in FPS's, you button mash in action, and you select actions in RPGs. Sometimes they cross, but there is rarely a lot of innovation. AC has been the same game with minor tweaks for 5 years, Every FPS has essentially the same controls, and the most creativity you get in RPGs is open worlds mixed with action controls. So, as a result, I'm not really sure how this reviewer can enjoy any game. Perhaps he is just disappointed that TOR wasn't more, but it is difficult not to get, "every game that doesn't innovate is a failures" out of his "review".

 

Overall though, I tend to match the writer in terms of gamer preference (generally single player with little online or MMO experience), and I enjoy TOR. It is fun and engaging, I don't have to play with others but I can. Heck, even PvP has a level of enjoyment for me (and I generally refuse to play against others online in any other game). But again, I didn't come to TOR expecting a different game.

 

Sadly rants too often get lumped in with reviews. While I respect you opinion and your right to have it, I feel like this opinion on the game suffers from overt negativity that makes no attempt to meet the game half way. Perhaps a better title of the post should be, "A Review of my issues of SWTOR" since even really lousy games get nods for what they try to/do accomplish when reviewed by professional critics; something this post lacks.

 

yup yup

[Sizzurps]

The game is so heavily instanced that I feel like I'm going to a ball game with my gf. Sitting outside the restroom waiting on her.

[Ivanblood]

Frankly, this is the best SWTOR review, I read so far.

But it lacks one section.

SWTOR Forum. Do you like to be trolled ?

Edited February 15, 2012 by Ivanblood

[stethnorun]

Frankly, this is the best SWTOR review, I read so far.

But it lacks one section.

SWTOR Forum. Do you like to be trolled ?

 

Hah. Well I knew I was posting this to an unfriendly crowd. But I don't mind, some people can have perfectly logical rebuttals, such as Tirfin.

[Jett-Rinn]

I honestly wish so called editorialist would learn to differentiate rants from reviews. Antics with semantics I suppose; however not only do I disagree with his opinion, I disagree with his conclusion. It seems to me that the dyed in the wool MMO players are the ones having issues with TOR and those new to MMO’s are loving it…around 35% of my guild has never played and downright hates traditional MMO’s.

 

Oh well at least the OP’s rant was legible.

[ShaftyMcShaft]

I guess I would just ask a review to do a bit better job of critiquing the game for what is present and less time wishing for things it never attested to be.

 

I think he pretty much did...you just didn't like what he said.

 

A common retort to complaints about this game is "well, it's exactly what the devs said it was going to be!"

 

Well, it's not, and that's the majority of his complaints. And the rest are valid, too.

 

Can we agree on two things? The game is stated to be "your personal Star Wars sage." look at the "Game Info" page on the SWTOR site. Right? That's what everybody says...it's about the story, and caring about your character?

 

Second, can we agree that it's IMPLIED to be a "good video game," right? 2012 AAA title. I go to a restaurant and the menu says "chicken sandwich," and I order that, and they give me a live chicken on a piece of bread. Well, they didn't specifically SAY that the chicken was dead, and cut and cooked, I guess... So, the game designers don't have to specifically state "WE HAVE GOOD GRAPHICS" or "WE HAVE ENGAGING GAMEPLAY" before I'm allowed to say "I don't think the graphics in this game are very good," or "the gameplay is boring."

 

So, got that? STATED to be "your personal Star Wars saga." IMPLIED to be "good modern video game."

 

And look at the author's complaints:

 

Is it your personal Star Wars saga?

 

You can't really customize your dude. Your choice of races are extremely limited and amount to humans with different colorations and maybe some horns or something. And the choices are shoddily-implemented anyway, and he gave the example of your hair color not changing the color of your eyebrows. And his points about crafting are dead-on, too...you're going to look the same as everybody else, especially at end game, since you can't design your own armor.

 

You can't customize your role, either, as you can't really "build your own class" with mixed and matched abilities. And once your role is set, you have cookie-cutter specs. If you pick "corruption sorcerer," you have maybe 3 talent points you can shuffle around without completely gimping yourself.

 

You can't customize your story. Once you pick your class...your class story is set. You can pick a different race and gender, but that is ignored from there on out. You can pick light or dark side, but it doesn't change how anyone acts towards you in the game, except for immediately after you make a LS/DS choice, which is then totally forgotten and never to be seen again. And since anybody you decide to kill or let live then disappears behind that red wall never to be seen again, you can't even go back and see the aftermath of your 'choices' again later.

 

You can't customize your story path. Like he pointed out...every class visits the exact same planets, in the exact same order, every time. So you are completely on rails.

 

So...is the game what it was purported to be? Your "personal Star Wars saga?" No. It's not. It's the exact same on-rails Star Wars saga that everyone else experiences, and some of the stories are pretty lame, like the smuggler 'treasure hunt.' So the reviewer is correct.

 

Is it a "good video game?"

 

Now besides reviewing the game for "what it purports to be," he also looked at it just as a video game released by a major company in 2012, and I don't think there's anything wrong with making judgement calls based on that. Can I not call the graphics in a game "mediocre" or "dated" and have that be fair criticism unless the game designers SPECIFICALLY said, "we have great graphics?" Should the designers have said "by the way, WARNING BEFORE YOU BUY THIS GAME: the graphics are dated and 2006-ish, so don't complain about it?"

 

Graphics: Meh. Low res textures. Low poly counts. Bad or non-existent shadows or lighting effects. Animations are iffy. Not particularly varied. So...yeah, reviewer's right.

 

Gameplay: Again, when is it okay to criticize the gameplay? I'd say releasing a major game, from an established developer and publisher in 2012, I should not have had to hunt for a warning before buying that said "Hey guys, just to let you know, the gameplay is mediocre and limited, and basically your duders just kind of stand there and you press whack-a-mole buttons until somebody falls over."

 

And the space combat. It's a Star Wars game. They advertised, "there's space combat! with your own ship!" And then we get this 1988 rail shooter. It's not good.

 

So, the reviewer looked at the game for what it's stated to be (your personal Star Wars saga) and concludes...it's not. And he looked at it for what's implied to be (a 2012 AAA game title) and concludes...it's not.

 

Where's he wrong? Honestly, the biggest thing I found wrong about his review was when he said the game had "polish" and "few bugs."

[stethnorun]

I honestly wish so called editorialist would learn to differentiate rants from reviews. Antics with semantics I suppose; however not only do I disagree with his opinion, I disagree with his conclusion. It seems to me that the dyed in the wool MMO players are the ones having issues with TOR and those new to MMO’s are loving it…around 35% of my guild has never played and downright hates traditional MMO’s.

 

Oh well at least the OP’s rant was legible.

 

Thanks for that, I try to at least write well I can't understand the logic there. If those people hate traditional MMOs, they should logically hate TOR, since it's a paint-by-numbers MMO. My guess is their love of Star Wars (or some other non-gameplay aspect) is overriding their distaste for the gameplay.

[ShaftyMcShaft]

I honestly wish so called editorialist would learn to differentiate rants from reviews. Antics with semantics I suppose; however not only do I disagree with his opinion, I disagree with his conclusion. It seems to me that the dyed in the wool MMO players are the ones having issues with TOR and those new to MMO’s are loving it…around 35% of my guild has never played and downright hates traditional MMO’s.

 

I don't think you read his review. First paragraph:

 

Okay, right at the top, I need to run through a list of disclaimers. First and foremost, I’m not a fan of Massively Multiplayer Online games. The things that I value most in games, such as story, depth, characterization, streamlined interface…these are all concepts that fly in the face of your standard MMO.

 

And for "differentiating rants and reviews":

 

The final disclaimer is that this review will be long…more of a rant, really. You have been warned!

Edited February 15, 2012 by ShaftyMcShaft

[stethnorun]

....snip...Where's he wrong? Honestly, the biggest thing I found wrong about his review was when he said the game had "polish" and "few bugs."

 

Thanks for the detailed review of my review You give me more credit than I probably deserve because you did a great job of bringing my rant into the question of "Do you get to live out a customized, personalized story?" Good argumentation there.

 

I honestly didn't run into too many bugs and the ones I did were not game breaking, just mildly annoying. I won't deny that they don't exist, it just wasn't my experience. Thanks again for reading and trying to get what I was going for.

[Jett-Rinn]

Thanks for that, I try to at least write well I can't understand the logic there. If those people hate traditional MMOs, they should logically hate TOR, since it's a paint-by-numbers MMO. My guess is their love of Star Wars (or some other non-gameplay aspect) is overriding their distaste for the gameplay.

 

 

Well the logic is pretty clear I think; while you may view it as a paint by numbers MMO, they veiw it as taking part in a compelling story.

 

They are not forced into progression raiding (well at least not yet...god knows what the Guild summit will bring ) they are allowed to participate without the requirement of Min/Maxing or being judged by their gear score and they can play many different characters from both sides of the coin everything from a corrupt Jedi to a virtuous Sith.

 

For the MMO Grognards that may seem lame and or trivial but for those RPG and Star wars fans who are not your typical gamer audience it is very compelling.

 

It would have been interesting to see your blog with a bit more research and a bit less biased it could have been quite good.

[Jett-Rinn]

I don't think you read his review. First paragraph:

 

 

 

And for "differentiating rants and reviews":

 

Yes Shady I read it...even the OP is saying you are over the top in your drum beating for it.

 

Oh you may want to read my follow up....maybe you can comprehend a bit better what I was getting at.

[stethnorun]

Well the logic is pretty clear I think; while you may view it as a paint by numbers MMO, they veiw it as taking part in a compelling story.

 

They are not forced into progression raiding (well at least not yet...god knows what the Guild summit will bring ) they are allowed to participate without the requirement of Min/Maxing or being judged by their gear score and they can play many different characters from both sides of the coin everything from a corrupt Jedi to a virtuous Sith.

 

For the MMO Grognards that may seem lame and or trivial but for those RPG and Star wars fans who are not your typical gamer audience it is very compelling.

 

It would have been interesting to see your blog with a bit more research and a bit less biased it could have been quite good.

 

What exactly should I have researched? As for bias, the only one I had going in was one of anti-stale MMO mechanics. I love Star Wars (as I think my review shows) and I love RPGs.

 

As for the whole "you can play a corrupt Jedi or a virtuous Sith....can't the same argument be made for all MMOs? You can play a nice Orc or a nasty Paladin! I don't see the difference, other than the story, which I'll grant you, is better than other MMOs (and I said as much in the review).

[Jett-Rinn]

What exactly should I have researched? As for bias, the only one I had going in was one of anti-stale MMO mechanics. I love Star Wars (as I think my review shows) and I love RPGs.

 

As for the whole "you can play a corrupt Jedi or a virtuous Sith....can't the same argument be made for all MMOs? You can play a nice Orc or a nasty Paladin! I don't see the difference, other than the story, which I'll grant you, is better than other MMOs (and I said as much in the review).

 

LoL okay you’re just glossing over what I was trying to say and you keep repeating that this is just a regular MMO like all the other MMO's.....I guess what you are trying to get across is you feel there wasn't enough innovation and Bioware never said they were going to break any molds they merely said they were adding another pillar Story.

 

But whatever at least you acknowledged it was a rant.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Jett-Rinn

[stethnorun]

LoL okay you’re just glossing over what I was trying to say and you keep repeating that this is just a regular MMO like all the other MMO's.....I guess what you are trying to get across is you feel there wasn't enough innovation and Bioware never said they were going to break any molds they merely said they were adding another pillar Story.

 

But whatever at least you acknowledged it was a rant.

 

I acknowledged that in the review/rant! I am a little surprised that Bioware would spend so much money and manpower on a WoW in space (with added story). But like I said, given Dragon Age 2, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I just hate to see Bioware phone it in. They used to be better than that.

[ShaftyMcShaft]

Thanks for the detailed review of my review You give me more credit than I probably deserve because you did a great job of bringing my rant into the question of "Do you get to live out a customized, personalized story?" Good argumentation there.

 

Well thanks for sharing...I just like talking about ideas and critiquing things.

 

I honestly didn't run into too many bugs and the ones I did were not game breaking, just mildly annoying. I won't deny that they don't exist, it just wasn't my experience.

 

During leveling I noticed a lot of bugs, like getting stuck in a jumping stance, floating in midair and unable to do anything that wasn't an instant-cast ability. A lot of graphical glitches, too. Mostly not game breaking, except for some players had bugs in their class quests that literally prevented them from continuing in the story.

 

The game-breaking bugs come mostly at end game, where the Operation (Raid) bosses would completely bug out and reset, or disappear, or kill people who weren't even zoned into the instance. Or not drop any loot. Or PvP victories/kills not being recorded. Or quest items bugged and unable to be clicked on.

[ShaftyMcShaft]

LoL okay you’re just glossing over what I was trying to say and you keep repeating that this is just a regular MMO like all the other MMO's.....I guess what you are trying to get across is you feel there wasn't enough innovation and Bioware never said they were going to break any molds they merely said they were adding another pillar Story.

 

Yeah, but his complaints weren't about whether it broke the mold or not. Just whether or not it was a good game. Whether the graphics are good or not, or whether the gameplay is good or not have nothing to do with innovation or breaking molds.

 

This looked to me not like an MMO-lover reviewing the game (an MMO lover would be MUCH MUCH harder on it, from a PvP and PvE end-game progression and balance standpoint), but like a gamer reviewing a game. I don't have to love racing games to point out bad graphics or cruddy controls and lack of customization in a particular racing game.

[Jett-Rinn]

I acknowledged that in the review/rant! I am a little surprised that Bioware would spend so much money and manpower on a WoW in space (with added story). But like I said, given Dragon Age 2, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. I just hate to see Bioware phone it in. They used to be better than that.

 

But your assuming that everyone feels like you do and quite frankly your opinion is the minority; most people I talk to love TOR. It has won 3 GOTY awards and has received gushing reviews from everyone from g4tv to PC Gamer.

 

You're projecting universal fail, when in fact it's just fail for you...and a handful of forum Trolls.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Jett-Rinn