How to fix the sorc, suggestions.

[Waagabond]

My suggestion as have been baked in, that I just came up with is the following.

 

First, there needs to remain a balance for PVE, but PVP also needs to be balanced.

 

There is a lot of complaining about left and right, but I think the number 1 complaint is that sorcs bring so much utility, cc, heal and damage in one spec.

 

My suggestion to fix the sorc and sage for pvp is:

 

Remove bubble from baseline and place it as a tier 5+ talent in the healing tree.

Remove the 2 second stun from the lightning cage.

 

Thats it.

 

There is nothing else that needs to be changed.

 

DPS can be dps, still off heal but they lack the bubble which is the number one tool for survival.

They do remain their swift movement which honestly, is a great ability and slightly overpowered especially in huttball.

 

Above all, it means those that actually only prefer to heal, feel special by being able to cast these bubbles and by doing this, also loose out on the high tier cc from the dps tree but are as good a healer as they currently are, but they dont have the cc disposal of the dps class.

 

As a DPS class you should not be as self sufficient and independent as this class is at the moment.

You can still run away and self heal without a problem. And you do have your snare, dots, and lightning cage but without the 2sec stun finale that frankly, is just over the tops.

And, since there is little reason to go high in the healing tree you might as well try out 31 points in the dps tree, something Im sure many dps sorcs and sages want too, but know its "gimp" with current talent tree setups.

 

This would define the roles better without affecting PVE at all, and it would make DPS specd sages providing as good dps as now without the bubbles.

 

And before you say anything about bubbles.

 

A full champion geared sage or sorc, have their bubble "heal" for roughly 3.3-3.5k damage. This has been tested and proved. Add battlemaster gear and remod some and you can push the bubble to 4k.

 

To be respectful of other people, which I know all you sorcs and sages are.

Please consider that commando medics and merc healers have a 31 point talent in the healing tree, that have a 21 second cooldown and heal for LESS then the bubble that is baseline among sorcs and sages.

 

A talented bubble at this moment have 17 seconds cooldown and lasts for 30 seconds.

Thats 4 seconds shorter then a 31 point healing talent from our STRONGEST SINGLE target healers in the game, mercs and commandos.

Even without the talent for cd reduction you still come 1 second shorter, and again, stronger then the expert, or so called expert, in single target healing.

 

This might seem huge for some sorcs, but I find it makes the sorcs more defined.

The hybrid spec will be but a memory unless you go high up in healing for the bubble and then you can get maybe the 11 point talent in the dps tree or some more, but thats it.

 

Would make the class more balanced, but above all, it would give way to a lot more spec variations then the curent One and only you should have and none other that sages and sorcs now face.

 

How fun is it to want to play a full time healer and feel that there is no point for him to go full healer?

 

peace

Edited February 15, 2012 by Waagabond

[iamnoobplzhelp]

lol, never going to happen

[Telaan]

lol

 

This was my thought as well.

[Waagabond]

lol, never going to happen

 

never say never.

 

The quality of the bubble in my opinion even qualifies it as a top talent in a healing tree.

Problem is that is collides with the commando or mercs top tier healing ability.

They are near identical in power with the difference that sage and sorc have theirs as baseline, while coms and mercs need to go 31 point in healing to get it. and they get +4 seconds extra before they can cast it.

 

Anyway its a fair suggestion and i feel its not a bad one.

 

This would not nerf the class a bit, it would just define roles better, and open up for more spec options for those that want to dps. Finally they can take the 31 point talents or spec other ways then the one and only cookie cutter spec there currently is.

 

Must be boring to have 1 spec out of 3 talent trees and if you dont spec that way you are "gimped".

 

But above all, it must be boring for those people that enjoys healing but hate to dps to feel that even if they spec full heal they wont heal better then the sages that is putting out enormous damage at the same time.

 

Every other class have defined roles, why not the sage or sorc?

[jblazen]

A fresh and new subject!

 

This is getting old... BW has had several chances to nerf sorcs if they thought it was necessary. Thus, it's not necessary. Now every QQ'er and whiner will come on here and say things like half the player base is sorcs so they'll never nerf them or all of BW plays sorcs so they'll never nerf them because they like being OP.

 

Me love me some tears, keep the threads coming!

[Waagabond]

This was my thought as well.

 

So you are a sorc or sage I assume and using the 21, 20 spec and defends the boring spec at any cost, disregarding the people that either want to go full dps or full healing without the need to hear that they are "noobs" or "Gimped"....

 

Remove bubble from baseline. Place it as a high tier talent in the healing tree.

Remove the 2 sec from lightning cage.

 

End of story, class is balanced.

[dcgregorya]

Also, give speed buffs to other classes. And in general, self heals should only be available to healers or available to everyone. I don't get how you justify giving self heals to hybrid classes like sorc while keeping damage between sorc and gunslinger/marauder consistent.

 

On one hand you say that all DPS builds should be viable then on the other hand you give some DPS builds self healing and speed buffs and not others. How is that balanced?

Edited February 15, 2012 by dcgregorya

[Waagabond]

A fresh and new subject!

 

This is getting old... BW has had several chances to nerf sorcs if they thought it was necessary. Thus, it's not necessary. Now every QQ'er and whiner will come on here and say things like half the player base is sorcs so they'll never nerf them or all of BW plays sorcs so they'll never nerf them because they like being OP.

 

Me love me some tears, keep the threads coming!

 

Im honestly trying to be objective and get a topic where we can share ideas how to fix this class.

 

Comments like Lol etc from sorcs and sages is not exactly helping you earn the respect you would get by saying "great idea but.." or..."no, that will not work but how about this?"

 

The class is imbalanced, and thats a fact. Deal with it.

Something needs to be done, and the suggestions I am making is far less then the overall population want.

 

My suggestions keep the class more or less as it is, but defines the roles better for those that enjoy playing the sorc or sage as a dps or healer.

[jblazen]

So you are a sorc or sage I assume and using the 21, 20 spec and defends the boring spec at any cost, disregarding the people that either want to go full dps or full healing without the need to hear that they are "noobs" or "Gimped"....

 

Remove bubble from baseline. Place it as a high tier talent in the healing tree.

Remove the 2 sec from lightning cage.

 

End of story, class is balanced.

 

You know what making assumptions make you look like right?

 

Yep.

[Waagabond]

Also, give speed buffs to other classes. And in general, self heals should only be available to healers or available to everyone. I don't get how you justify giving self heals to hybrid classes like sorc while keeping damage between sorc and gunslinger/marauder consistent.

 

I really dont agree to this at all.

 

Gunslingers, Snipers, Sentinels and Marauders have far more tools up their sleeve then most people understand. Add a self heal on this and they would be redicilously ovepowered.

 

The self heal of those that are dps specd are often very weak and channeled.

It is most often used behind cover somewhere, where if you yourself waited a few more seconds you could juse recuperate or whatever it is you do when alone and single in a corner.

 

Imagine a sniper with self heals.............

It would make sorcs seem like naked warriors in a frost mage fight.

No thank you.

[jblazen]

Im honestly trying to be objective and get a topic where we can share ideas how to fix this class.

 

Comments like Lol etc from sorcs and sages is not exactly helping you earn the respect you would get by saying "great idea but.." or..."no, that will not work but how about this?"

 

The class is imbalanced, and thats a fact. Deal with it.

Something needs to be done, and the suggestions I am making is far less then the overall population want.

 

My suggestions keep the class more or less as it is, but defines the roles better for those that enjoy playing the sorc or sage as a dps or healer.

 

It's your opinion that this class needs "fixed" or "balanced". It's not a fact at all.

 

In fact, the only opinion that matters is BW's. And they obviously don't think anything is wrong with sorcs because they haven't touched them while they've had the opportunity many patches now while "balancing" other classes.

 

Huff and puff all you want, it won't change a thing in the end. Your opinion is worthless.

[Waagabond]

You know what making assumptions make you look like right?

 

Yep.

 

So then what class do you play if I may ask? since you had that such of comment?

 

Or you find the suggestion bad?

[Waagabond]

It's your opinion that this class needs "fixed" or "balanced". It's not a fact at all.

 

In fact, the only opinion that matters is BW's. And they obviously don't think anything is wrong with sorcs because they haven't touched them while they've had the opportunity many patches now while "balancing" other classes.

 

Huff and puff all you want, it won't change a thing in the end. Your opinion is worthless.

 

Believe me, the sorc will be inspected and fall under the cutting board.

 

The suggestions I am making is probably far softer then this class will face in the near future.

 

It is far better to acknowledge this fact and come up with constructive suggestions that sticking your head in the sand and hoping none can see you.

[dcgregorya]

In fact, the only opinion that matters is BW's.

 

What makes you say that? Players pay the bills and so long as that happens and Bioware wishes the game to be successful they'll need to care about player and community opinions.

[Darythe]

How about, instead of nerfing the hybrid spec, they buff the 31 pt specs so that sorc/sages have a reason to use them? Face it, the 31pt specs are very lackluster. I'd gladly drop the hybrid spec if it was worth using the other ones...

[jblazen]

What makes you say that? Players pay the bills and so long as that happens and Bioware wishes the game to be successful they'll need to care about player and community opinions.

 

You must be new to MMO's. Ignorance is bliss.

[Rhazesx]

Sorcerers without bubble are a free kill and these posts will continue because people who take 4 seconds to turn with their keyboard and 2-3 secs to click their buttons and are in level 48 greens will still not be able to kill sorcerers.

 

It would be like letting melee's leap to snipers in cover.

[Tumri]

Bubble isn't the problem. CC and control is the problem.

[Waagabond]

Its no problem to counter a sorc my friend.

 

Its a problem to couonter 3 sorcs that have 2 tanks next to them and a sniper, merc tracer missile shooter and a marauder there to help.

 

Its what the sorc brings to the team that is the problem, not how to deal with them in a 1vs1 environment.

You should know by now that the utility this class brings outmatches every other class.

And neglecting this fact just makes you part of the people that want this game destroyed, and once your fotm class is no longer fotm you either reroll or go back to wow and pick one of the 7 lvl 50 classes you have, that at the moment is fotm. More then likely I am very sure you that if you played wow, you played frost mage. Im assuming now, but Im right no?

 

But no personal insults, the thing is, the sorc is not balanced and its end of story.

 

Every hardcore pvper out there agrees to this.

I have no problems with sorcs 1vs1, unless they outgear me AND are extremly good players, then its an extremly tough nut to crack, if not impossible.

 

Its that you are able to, on demand, instantly, cast from baseline, a bubble that have same healing capability as a 31 point single target heal with 21 sec cd from this games strongest single target healing class, while your aoe heals, heals as much as most other classes single target heals.

 

The CC and damage on this makes it just imbalanced.

 

My suggestions is minor to what other people think.

My suggestion only gives room for more specilizations in this class, and gives healers exactly what they have now minus the damage and 1 cc ability.

And DPS get exactly as they have now minus the bubble, thats it.

 

Though maybe not exactly, since the 2 sec stun needs to go as well from lightning cage.

 

Still I find it a good, solid and fair adjustment without over nerfing the class, which is what happened to the operative and scoundrel (with surge nerf, a crit shoot first is now reduced by 45% damage since before first nerf, in good gear).

Edited February 19, 2012 by Paralassa
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[Zellata]

I have an alternate suggestion - we'll trade bubble and 2s stun on whirlwind for heavy armor and our force lightning doing same damage as 2 tracer missiles (3s channel vs. 2 x 1.5s casts). I'd even throw in our force speed for good measure. Sounds fair?

[dcgregorya]

I have an alternate suggestion - we'll trade bubble and 2s stun on whirlwind for heavy armor and our force lightning doing same damage as 2 tracer missiles (3s channel vs. 2 x 1.5s casts). I'd even throw in our force speed for good measure. Sounds fair?

 

Deal.

[Waagabond]

Sorcerers without bubble are a free kill and these posts will continue because people who take 4 seconds to turn with their keyboard and 2-3 secs to click their buttons and are in level 48 greens will still not be able to kill sorcerers.

 

It would be like letting melee's leap to snipers in cover.

 

So a sorcered specd into healing is not a sorc?

Im saying that due to the power of the bubble it should be a high tier talent in the healing tree.

 

Nothing sais that a healing specd sorc cant cast their bubble on YOU, as a dps sorc.

 

it wont change much, it would just define the roles better and cause for more team effort and coordination.

[Waagabond]

I have an alternate suggestion - we'll trade bubble and 2s stun on whirlwind for heavy armor and our force lightning doing same damage as 2 tracer missiles (3s channel vs. 2 x 1.5s casts). I'd even throw in our force speed for good measure. Sounds fair?

 

If you had the chance to change anything else then, from your sorc, what would that be?

 

If you would trade in the above what you said, you would just be a merc or commando, and we already have that class.

[Erasimus]

I don't feel that these changes are necessary and I play both a Gunslinger (Lvl 50) and a Sorcerer (Lvl 48)

 

One on One I can usually take down a Sorcerer on my Gunslinger (DF). If they are a pure healer it is much harder, but then that applies to pretty much any pure healer.

 

On my Sorcerer if I go toe to toe with almost any DPS class I lose. The only thing that keeps me alive are those things you want to nerf. Without the bubble and the CCs and the occasional speed boost I would stand very little chance against the other DPS classes almost all of whom have more burst DPS.

 

On my Gunslinger (Dirty Fighting) I have enough interupts (Kick, Flashbang, Cast interupt -can't remember the name ;-) That from full health I can usually take down a Sorcerer. If they run and I get a leg shot off it is often game over.

 

On my Sorcerer getting heals off while being pummeled by virtually any class is very difficult. I usually have to run and hide to do any meaningful healing and that only works if they don't CC me or run me down. Force speed is fine, but unless there is someplace to hide it is a minor advantage. The biggest advantage of Force Speed is situational like Hutball and other classes have similar situational advantages like force leap, the harpoon, etc.

 

The bubble lasts for a couple of hits. Without it a Sorcerer/Sage would die very quickly indeed.

 

I don't see that Sorcerers/Sages are that far out of line. Yes you see a lot of them and have since day one, they are a popular class. I mean who dosen't want to shoot lighting out of their fingertips or throw dirt in an opponents face But in need of a nerf? I just don't see it at the moment. The changes the OP is suggesting would, in my opinion, totally cripple the class for PvP.

 

(P.S. I don't do much PvE and none on my Sorcerer except quests. I'd be very much surprised if there were any hybrid Sorcerers doing OPs.)

Edited February 15, 2012 by Erasimus

[Zaodon]

My suggestion as have been baked in, that I just came up with is the following.

 

First, there needs to remain a balance for PVE, but PVP also needs to be balanced.

 

There is a lot of complaining about left and right, but I think the number 1 complaint is that sorcs bring so much utility, cc, heal and damage in one spec.

 

My suggestion to fix the sorc and sage for pvp is:

 

Remove bubble from baseline and place it as a tier 5+ talent in the healing tree.

Remove the 2 second stun from the lightning cage.

 

Thats it.

 

There is nothing else that needs to be changed.

 

Bad idea.

 

Here is how to fix sage/sorc:

 

- The bubble no longer registers as "Healing" for WZ Badges.

- The bubble instead registers as "Protection" for WZ Badges.

 

That's all.