Was Flashpoint Esseles a Bait and Switch?

[ptwonline]

Bioware had stated in beta that the flashpoints were a mix of traditional dungeon style and heavy story style. Extra more traditional flashpoints were added later in beta and prior to release. They did this to mix it up and offer something different for those who like different things.

 

I like how you left that little fact out when calling out the tired and overused accusation of "bait and switch".

 

The main problem is that they seem to string all the non-story ones together, and after Esseles/BT. So from about level 10 to 30 all the flashpoints are the ones with barely any story. That's a huge design mix-up, and I can understand how people feel like they've been duped.

[Scar]

Many of us don't buy that excuse. And it is an excuse.

 

You can lead a horse to water....

[tharnvedra]

They used Esseles and Black Talon all the time to show SWTOR at the gamescom, other exhibitions and for marketing purposes so make your guess. Thats our 4th pillar! Make your choice! Kill the captain or not? Every choice matters!

 

Black Talon was the only flashpoint were your choice opened up a different route and bosses. So make your guess.

[Zannis]

The root cause of all this confusion is when Bioware overlooked labeling each Flashpoint as either 'Story Heavy' or 'Story Light'. Then each camp would have known where to pitch their tents.

[Oddzball]

Way to expand on that 0.o.

 

 

I provided proof and you simply say you don't buy it? Nice. I see politics in your future.

 

I researched the game with easily obtained information and discovered what I posted previously. I played the beta and discovered what I posted previously. I fail to see how this and many other things people are whining about on the forums today are all suddenly "amazing new information!".

 

If you choose ignorance to support your argument there is nothing anyone can do to convince you otherwise. If that is true then why even bring it forth for debate on the forums?

 

Others have posted with clear and concise information that many flashpoints are extremely story driven. If you haven't discovered or played the story through The Foundry then you have absolutely no legs to stand on.

 

Except that Foundry wasn't really that dialog or story driven. Honestly name one choice in foundry that DRASTICALLY changes the FP like the choices in BT or ESS.

[ferroz]

Nice of you to assume that. A story stops being a story when you've sat through it 30 times.

Nah, there are lots of people who sit through the same story, time after time.

 

for example: Christopher Lee reads the lord of the rings at least once a year, and has done so for decades.

 

repeating it doesn't make it not a story.

Edited February 15, 2012 by ferroz

[Tamanous]

The main problem is that they seem to string all the non-story ones together, and after Esseles/BT. So from about level 10 to 30 all the flashpoints are the ones with barely any story. That's a huge design mix-up, and I can understand how people feel like they've been duped.

 

The OP's point isn't that the first FP is just different than the rest but that it also was a "bait and switch" tactic from Bioware. It is the accusation that is the point of this entire thread. Don't start debating lesser points.

 

The first FP could very easily simply be the first heavy story arc entry for new players ... well because IT IS! Saying it is a "bait and switch" is a much more serious accusation ... a legal accusation. To go that far is an extreme stretch. It infers that Bioware sat down and planned this out with INTENTION to pull in more money and to TRICK the player base. How this sounds like the more rational reason behind a story introduction mechanic for new players is something only extremely paranoid people can ponder.

 

Do not get what I said twisted with the off topic rants following the OP's statement. He called this a "bait and switch" tactic. I am simply saying that is absurd along with the many people defending it as the only option. The extreme is usually the lesser of probabilities.

[Oddzball]

The OP's point isn't that the first FP is just different than the rest but that it also was a "bait and switch" tactic from Bioware. It is the accusation that is the point of this entire thread. Don't start debating lesser points.

 

The first FP could very easily simply be the first heavy story arc entry for new players ... well because IT IS! Saying it is a "bait and switch" is a much more serious accusation ... a legal accusation. To go that far is an extreme stretch. It infers that Bioware sat down and planned this out with INTENTION to pull in more money and to TRICK the player base. How this sounds like the more rational reason behind a story introduction mechanic for new players is something only extremely paranoid people can ponder.

 

Do not get what I said twisted with the off topic rants following the OP's statement. He called this a "bait and switch" tactic. I am simply saying that is absurd along with the many people defending it as the only option. The extreme is usually the lesser of probabilities.

 

Because nobody tries to make more money. Its a business, MMOs do this all the time. Its always the endgame that suffers. Because by that time you have invested a lot of time and its hard to let go.

[Dezzi]

Way to expand on that 0.o.

 

 

I provided proof and you simply say you don't buy it? Nice. I see politics in your future.

 

I researched the game with easily obtained information and discovered what I posted previously. I played the beta and discovered what I posted previously. I fail to see how this and many other things people are whining about on the forums today are all suddenly "amazing new information!".

 

If you choose ignorance to support your argument there is nothing anyone can do to convince you otherwise. If that is true then why even bring it forth for debate on the forums?

 

Others have posted with clear and concise information that many flashpoints are extremely story driven. If you haven't discovered or played the story through The Foundry then you have absolutely no legs to stand on.

 

I'm not here to win hearts and minds--only to share my opinion--but if you truly wish to play the forum game, I'll bite.

 

First, nowhere did I argue that what you said is false--that there are no story-driven flashpoints beyond Black Talon and Esseles. I know that is true, but what I opine is that the long gap between those and the other story-driven content was not a design decision, but a victim of the rush to get the game released.

 

You point to an interview (post-release) where the team makes an argument in support of a decision to use a mix of short and long flashpoint content. In the same interview, they state that they made the mistake of lining up this content in a way that first places emphasis on longer, story-driven content which is then followed up by a swath of shorter, less story-driven content which gives the player the impression that said content is either not finished or simply lacking in quality beyond when compared to the first (Esseles and Black Talon).

 

Now, this game was in beta for a year. I participated from August up until the gap between beta and live. This was an easily visible issue that was communicated to the developers. I can't imagine that reworking the flashpoints to fit better with each other would have been all that difficult, especially provided that the dialogue cues for these missions are independent of each other.

 

Evidence that this could be true? We know that the team has classified glaring issues as design decisions previously. I point specifically to high-resolution textures (which is still playing out) and the UI fiasco of last week.

 

Given the long testing phase and the visible nature of the issue, I see this in two ways: First, it was a design decision of which they now admit to the mistake of organizing these missions in a way that skews their quality, or it was not a design decision (and a product of some other situation we're not privy to) and given the complaints they now want to reclassify the content as being a mix of two types.

 

Neither of us has more than their word to back up how we feel about their response. I'm going to err on the side of their past performance (previously mentioned PR blunders) for my insight.

 

I simply don't believe it was an oversight or design decision because they tout story as their big feature in this game.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Dezzi

[dprijadi]

hi

 

im new to SWTOR, less than a month of playing.. i mainly play Republic side and ao far i got to lv 32 Vanguard Tank and loving it. I also got all Rep class alts and another trooper alt. I tried to play this game as slow as possible and get out all the story content as much as i can.

 

my point is , based on my style of play , i enjoy very muc every FP up to Cademimu ( the highest that i played ao far) and i love every FP i ran with my main or my alts..

 

Esseles : great introduction FP for new players. definitely my fav. ran all my 5 alts here repeatedly. the story / movie phase can be skipped so its no problem for me. the different conversation and reply make it worthwhile to play this one

 

Hammer Station : love that big asteroid cannon firing and the light bridge.. the 1st giant boss i met (big droid thimgy) , a great experience builder after esseles.. love this one also.. great place for scavenger alt.. prefer to play this with lv 14-16, anything higher will be easier but not as fun..

 

Athiss : the ancient ruin stuff, good for bioanalyst harvesting and again giant boss beast thats kick me around , fun fight.. then i see Sith and the last boss is Sith with some random Flame chasing you.. again different theme from the Hammer station, love it!! prefer to play this with level 19-21. anything higher will be easier but at low level more fun heehee

 

Mandalorian Raiders : boarding action theme, another variation of esseles, with enough differnce from the other 3 FP.. love the boss fights here.. every on of the boss fight is harder and different than the other FP. great place for biochem and scavengers to gather stuff. love this place also fun to do with lv 23-25

 

Cademimu : a city themed FP. just like Nar Shadda with steroid.. funny Fp where you can throw enemies off the bridges.. great fun if you are in grp that got that power.. seeing champion droids got thrown off the bridge never get tired.. very fun FP and we get to kill a Wookie boss here. the last boss fight is definitely fun and scary.. have to be mindful of the rocket blast lol.. great place for lv24-29

 

thats my take and i done these FP repeatedly without getting bored.. im looking forward to my next FP the taral V ..

 

cheers..

 

TLDR

- all FP fun if you did it with correct level range

- all FP stories can be skipped easily so no problem there

- Stories for Hammer, Athiss, Mandalorian Raiders, Cademimu are condensed in the briefing and debriefing at carrick station. no problem there , still got SW theme in all FP.

- dont just tank,dps,heal all time, try yo look around and see little things in FP that adds to the theme.. see the skyline at cademimu, hammer asteroid cannon, repaired droids helping in athiss, farming crewskill mats in fp..