Sentinal > Infiltration, pvp?

[Lawconis]

What's up with Sentinals doing sooo much damage? Are we behind them in damage and survivability?

 

Yea i know we get invis and a sprint, Sents have Force Leap.

 

We have Force Cloak, but so do they ( a weaker version)

 

They also get an AoE heal dot with no CD.

 

Anyone know how much damage mitigation they have vs. an Infiltration Shadow?

 

THanks,

 

PS: Feeling a little underwhelmed with our damage output atm. I am sitting in a mix of Champ and Centurion gear.

[Rasheth]

What's up with Sentinals doing sooo much damage? Are we behind them in damage and survivability?

 

Yea i know we get invis and a sprint, Sents have Force Leap.

 

We have Force Cloak, but so do they ( a weaker version)

 

They also get an AoE heal dot with no CD.

 

Anyone know how much damage mitigation they have vs. an Infiltration Shadow?

 

THanks,

 

PS: Feeling a little underwhelmed with our damage output atm. I am sitting in a mix of Champ and Centurion gear.

 

Resilience Resilience is your friend vs Sentinel/Marauders. They rely on dot resilience that and you have advantage usually. Obviously if they cast long master strike/ravage(I think for sith its called) interrupt. They pop Rebuke/Saber ward cloak out wait for it to wear off 30 secs. Re-attack in a 1v1. I was infil but since switch to kinetic and now have no problems with Sentinels/marads.

 

Deflection works great against them also. They have no cc abilities really except stasis. Don't get me wrong they are a good class I have a sentinel but I think less utility than a shadow. Infiltration 1v1 usually going to lose if you dont pop your defensive cooldowns.

 

I think burst damage we beat them sustained no. Survivability all depends if you are kinetic or infil imo. You can win as infil but your gonna use just about all of your abilities against a good mara/sentinel.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Rasheth

[Xinika]

Resilience Resilience is your friend vs Sentinel/Marauders. They rely on dot resilience that and you have advantage usually. Obviously if they cast long master strike/ravage(I think for sith its called) interrupt. They pop Rebuke/Saber ward cloak out wait for it to wear off 30 secs. Re-attack in a 1v1. I was infil but since switch to kinetic and now have no problems with Sentinels/marads.

 

Deflection works great against them also. They have no cc abilities really except stasis. Don't get me wrong they are a good class I have a sentinel but I think less utility than a shadow. Infiltration 1v1 usually going to lose if you dont pop your defensive cooldowns.

 

I think burst damage we beat them sustained no. Survivability all depends if you are kinetic or infil imo. You can win as infil but your gonna use just about all of your abilities against a good mara/sentinel.

 

Good post, I agree. Infiltration, you need just about all your CDS. Especially deflection. Kinetic? Just look at them and laugh.

[Xavory]

Resilience wont wipe the bleed(physical) from Sents/Marauders. so don't expect to be stealthed for long.

 

On our server(Jung Ma) we've had 2 dueling tournaments in the last 2 weeks. In both tournaments there were War Hero level Assassins in full modded BM. In both Tournaments, the finals came down to 2 Marauders. In fact, of the 5 different marauders that participated in the two tournaments, their only losses to date are from each other.

 

Is it OP? I don't know. People in this thread will say " the game is NOT balanced around 1v1". I'd agree, except I play a Battlemaster Operative, and I got nerfed because of 1v1's.

 

Food for thought.

[Xinika]

Resilience wont wipe the bleed(physical) from Sents/Marauders. so don't expect to be stealthed for long.

 

On our server(Jung Ma) we've had 2 dueling tournaments in the last 2 weeks. In both tournaments there were War Hero level Assassins in full modded BM. In both Tournaments, the finals came down to 2 Marauders. In fact, of the 5 different marauders that participated in the two tournaments, their only losses to date are from each other.

 

Is it OP? I don't know. People in this thread will say " the game is NOT balanced around 1v1". I'd agree, except I play a Battlemaster Operative, and I got nerfed because of 1v1's.

 

Food for thought.

 

Clearly there are no good 31/0/10 sins/shadows on your server. Marauders are a complete joke as that spec.

[-Yui-]

They are utterly OP if played in the right hands. Otherwise, take a look at the Sent/Mara forums, and you'll see literally hundreds of posts of players complaining about the supposedly "weak" sent/mara class.

[Xavory]

Let me add this to my post:

 

There were no Darkness(Kinetic) Sins so that may very well be an answer. Also, I have seen two different Deception (Infil) spec'd Sins beat those marauders in duels outside the tournament by getting MASSIVE burst on them from the start and just winning the race against the Mara's CDs.

[Ekemeister]

Good post, I agree. Infiltration, you need just about all your CDS. Especially deflection. Kinetic? Just look at them and laugh.

 

On balance/madness, it's just kite them and laugh. My Madness PvP build.

 

Nothing like watching a marauder try to run while you got lightning charge/crushing darkness on him. Then he really craps himself after dropping below 30%.

[Woopinars]

I disagree that the sent/mara builds are better. In both circumstances its based entirely on the player not the class specifics. Mara/sent is a very straight forward class... latch onto your target and go crazy. Assasins/shadows require a little more discretion and planning but in the hands of a skilled pvper can and easily deal with even the highest pro mara/sents. Simply because of all the utility they have at there disposal.

[Rasheth]

Let me add this to my post:

 

There were no Darkness(Kinetic) Sins so that may very well be an answer. Also, I have seen two different Deception (Infil) spec'd Sins beat those marauders in duels outside the tournament by getting MASSIVE burst on them from the start and just winning the race against the Mara's CDs.

 

Yea thats the answer 31/0/10 and Mara/Sent aren't really tough at all. Infiltration is so squishy its not funny. Though Power says using the AOE mitigation talent definitely helps though I dont see it as much use against mara/sents.

 

Honestly in my opinion the number 1 reason a infil loses in this match up is just cause you burn your force so fast. A problem kinetic rarely has.

[Xinika]

Let me add this to my post:

 

There were no Darkness(Kinetic) Sins so that may very well be an answer. Also, I have seen two different Deception (Infil) spec'd Sins beat those marauders in duels outside the tournament by getting MASSIVE burst on them from the start and just winning the race against the Mara's CDs.

 

KC aside.

 

That is what I did against the best mara on my server as infiltration. A total DPS race. I bursted him to probably roughly 35% of his health with the opening barrages. However, he quickly gutted my health to 60-50% after he vanished and reopened.

[Rhissa]

Did a lot of duels as kinetic hybrid against a guild sentinel, it basically was learning to interupt his master strike and not wasting force while he bubbled, after that the odds were clearly against him.

[FluxWing]

Resilience wont wipe the bleed(physical) from Sents/Marauders. so don't expect to be stealthed for long.

 

Resilience does remove any hostile debuff on you regardless of the type of attack. However, since it only protects 100% against force/tech attack, they can just reapply the DoTs on you, which are as you stated a "physical" debuff applied by a "melee" attack.

 

So if you hit Resilience while they have 1 stack of overloaded saber left and they hit you before you press force cloak, you will get the DoT applied to you.

 

 

I think Watchman sentinels/Annihilation Marauders steamroll everybody, except snipers. Since they can't interupt or charge them while in cover.

 

The good news is that they are quite rare, or at least the good geard players with somewhat "skill".

[Lawconis]

Ty all for the replies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's funny how alot of the discussions are revolving around the Kinetic 31/0/10 build. I agree, Kinetic isn't the problem.

 

Problem: Infiltration spec. We are squishy and don't have the "burst" needed imo. Look around, most of the top pvp dogs went Kinetic.

[richardya]

Did a lot of duels as kinetic hybrid against a guild sentinel, it basically was learning to interupt his master strike and not wasting force while he bubbled, after that the odds were clearly against him.

 

Is his bubble a "timed bubble?"

I need to learn the bubbles better, if its timed then I would slow him and stay out of range until it expires. If it absorbs a set amount of damage it is not wasting force.

As I said I need to look into all the bubbles for just this reason.

 

Fighting sentinels on a shadow is a funny fight because its the only fight that we have an advantage at range. (5-10)

Also, I thought their cloak was way less than 30 seconds, i thought it was like 4 or 6 seconds.

Edited February 15, 2012 by richardya

[Kai-Eurah-Tird]

Is his bubble a "timed bubble?"

I need to learn the bubbles better, if its timed then I would slow him and stay out of range. If it absorbs a set amount of damage it is not wasting force.

As I said I need to look into all the bubbles for just this reason.

 

The problem is that you think you can kite a Marauder/Sentinel, they have their force charge/leap for that, so don't bother. ANd the "bubble" is actually not a bubble, it is just a 90% damage reduction defensive cool down. That is the cool down that'll keep them in the fight long enough to finish you off if you're not careful.

[oddmyth]

The problem is that you think you can kite a Marauder/Sentinel, they have their force charge/leap for that, so don't bother. ANd the "bubble" is actually not a bubble, it is just a 90% damage reduction defensive cool down. That is the cool down that'll keep them in the fight long enough to finish you off if you're not careful.

 

You can kite them, you just have to kite them within a certain range in which they cannot use force leap.

 

Its tricky to do, because many times they will just run the opposite direction you are kiting and leap in.

 

Much easier to kite them when you can LoS them.

[Xinika]

Ty all for the replies.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's funny how alot of the discussions are revolving around the Kinetic 31/0/10 build. I agree, Kinetic isn't the problem.

 

Problem: Infiltration spec. We are squishy and don't have the "burst" needed imo. Look around, most of the top pvp dogs went Kinetic.

 

 

It's not just the awful survivability. It's the lack of utility and near-uselessness you bring to the team as that spec.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Xinika

[Laoi]

What's up with Sentinals doing sooo much damage? Are we behind them in damage and survivability?

 

Yea i know we get invis and a sprint, Sents have Force Leap.

 

We have Force Cloak, but so do they ( a weaker version)

 

They also get an AoE heal dot with no CD.

 

Anyone know how much damage mitigation they have vs. an Infiltration Shadow?

 

THanks,

 

PS: Feeling a little underwhelmed with our damage output atm. I am sitting in a mix of Champ and Centurion gear.

 

dno i didnt meet a mara/sent yet which i couldnt beat. most are very very easy but the few good ones give close fights. when they throw guarded by the force u just vanish or snare them and kite them for 6 seconds if vanish is down. also use force shroud to cancel out their dots. thats with 2/31/8 spec btw.

[grandmasterub]

For how squishy the infil build is I was seriously surprised at how unimpressive the damage was.

 

I leveled as kinetic. Tried infil. The damage was good but I didn't go "wow". What I did "wow" at was how ridiculously soft I was. wetpaperbags could stand up longer. Went straight back to kinetic.

 

Personally I think the mit and armor pen talents for shadow tech need to be boosted. Id also like to see shadowstrikes damage boosted slightly.

Edited February 16, 2012 by grandmasterub

[Laoi]

For how squishy the infil build is I was seriously surprised at how unimpressive the damage was.

 

I leveled as kinetic. Tried infil. The damage was good but I didn't go "wow". What I did "wow" at was how ridiculously soft I was. wetpaperbags could stand up longer. Went straight back to kinetic.

 

Personally I think the mit and armor pen talents for shadow tech need to be boosted. Id also like to see shadowstrikes damage boosted slightly.

 

ru sure u played it correctly? i also levelled as tank and went to infi after 40 and the dmg difference is HUUUUUGE.

[FinDevil]

ru sure u played it correctly? i also levelled as tank and went to infi after 40 and the dmg difference is HUUUUUGE.

 

At best i do 13k damage in 4 seconds with kinetic 31 0 10 build, the damage is not quite as good as inf, BUT the survivability is so much better i would NEVER roll inf again, ever. I am very experienced battlemaster shadow that only pvps, so i know what im talking about. Even leveled by pvp.

[Lawconis]

For how squishy the infil build is I was seriously surprised at how unimpressive the damage was.

 

I leveled as kinetic. Tried infil. The damage was good but I didn't go "wow". What I did "wow" at was how ridiculously soft I was. wetpaperbags could stand up longer. Went straight back to kinetic.

 

Personally I think the mit and armor pen talents for shadow tech need to be boosted. Id also like to see shadowstrikes damage boosted slightly.

 

I agree with that big time. Shadow Technique is a bit underwhelming for sure....i

[Laoi]

At best i do 13k damage in 4 seconds with kinetic 31 0 10 build, the damage is not quite as good as inf, BUT the survivability is so much better i would NEVER roll inf again, ever. I am very experienced battlemaster shadow that only pvps, so i know what im talking about. Even leveled by pvp.

 

agree on the survivability factor but u rly only need it when u have no healers or bad healers. so yea in random groups it prolly is superior. but in a good premade id say infi > kinetic any day. and also even as inf in random groups, even with no healers at all while u might not be as effective as kinetic in that situation u can still do okay as inf if u adjust ur playstyle accordingly.

personally i find inf alot more fun to play too as its the most unforgiving and challenging spec out of them all, but thats a matter of personal preference i suppose.

[Fairell]

the problem i see with infiltration is that we are the only AC thats not able to spec main stat and crit.

 

that means the whole infiltration tree is based around force potency. if its not up, your dmg is pathetic. without critting every or every second attack, your whole rotation does as much as a sniper in 1-2 hits.