Jedi Shadow, Sith Assassin needs a big nerf soon.

[upzie]

<3 how your posts keep beeing completely ignorant, its a treat for us reading the forums, keep up the good work.

[_Scattered_]

The shield is minor, just goes to show how little you know. Our shield chance is 35% at 24% absorb, which is pathetic considering 80% of incoming damage in non white.

 

Nor have you seen the potential of the classes I have mentioned above. So please spare me the bs until you have been destroyed by a skilled marauder, a pyro merc, a pyro PT (your jugg will melt like butter), a skilled operative and a skilled cc hybrid sorc. All of these a rare encounters because 90% of the players in this game have no idea.

 

Furthermore do not bring medals into this, I could not give a damn about them. Take them all away from me and I would not care.

Edited February 28, 2012 by _Scattered_

[FalcoLombardi]

Shadows are vastly superior to guardians but that doesn't mean they are overpowered. Guardians need plenty of help. Shadows are fine where they are.

 

I always beat my friend's Shadow in a 1 vs 1 duel

[bahugboto]

The shield is minor, just goes to show how little you know. Our shield chance is 35% at 24% absorb, which is pathetic considering 80% of incoming damage in non white.

 

Nor have you seen the potential of the classes I have mentioned above. So please spare me the bs until you have been destroyed by a skilled marauder, a pyro merc, a pyro PT (your jugg will melt like butter), a skilled operative and a skilled cc hybrid sorc. All of these a rare encounters because 90% of the players in this game have no idea.

 

Furthermore do not bring medals into this, I could not give a damn about them. Take them all away from me and I would not care.

 

It's obvious you are not anywhere near endgame yet, an endgame gear will up your shield chance to around 60% and absorb to 40%, that is a big difference and a game changer, so as i said if you think it's that insignificant, let's remove it altogether, as a shadow tank you have enough survivability with heals, force mitigation and another proc shield ability + your slow ccs kites and other utilities to survive, so if it's insignificant lets petition to remove kinetic ward altogether and just see how much of a difference a 60% chance to absorb with 40% damage mitigation is.

[_Scattered_]

No, I am a rank 75 shadow.

 

In full pve tank gear I have 55% shield chance with 30% absorb, due to high defence stats (which are better than shield stats for mitigation).

 

In that gear a shadow will do no damage.

 

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. My shadow in full dps gear has 35% shield chance and 24% absorb, which is the baseline.

Edited February 28, 2012 by _Scattered_

[Technohic]

I still think this guy is seeing a sage blast him with stones and then heal for a big chunk and then see another character blast him with stones and then tank everyone around and think its the same guy or advance class.

[hadoken]

Gotta give this guy credit 14 pages later and he's still going, the one man army trying to get this stuff nerfed.

[bahugboto]

No, I am a rank 75 shadow.

 

In full pve tank gear I have 55% shield chance with 30% absorb, due to high defence stats (which are better than shield stats for mitigation).

 

In that gear a shadow will do no damage.

 

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. My shadow in full dps gear has 35% shield chance and 24% absorb, which is the baseline.

 

I can say the same for power-tech or Jug, in that gear the tank will do absolutely no dmg, lol, if a shadow in tanking gear can do absolutely no damage, than a jug in tanking gear can do no damage, like i said your arguments do not hold water, because you are very selective, every class have a choice to make between survivability, dps or balance, and Shadow is no different but they are imbalanced, even in the highest tanking gear they can still do all the CCs and heals and out DPS and Out tank a tanking Jug anytime, due to the utility of their spells. I have never ever played an MMO where ranges out tanks a melee, this one have 2 ranges out tanking a melee in PVP. Speaks alot for game balancing

[GrandMasterDarth]

The only time i have been top damage as a shadow was when we had no dps, just healers and tanks, or every dps simply sucked...

 

I run a hybrid build, no aoe at all... and i barely break 350k in a game when i get healed all the game in voidstar vs a team that doesn`t only have tanks(so i do higher damage)

 

My commando did 600k+ as gunnery, also a single target dps build...

 

My shadow has, in it`s tank stance, 40% mitigation.

My commando has, in it`s dps stance and spamming grav round, 40% mitigation.

 

The shadow has devensive cooldowns and a pathetic self healing...

The commando has better self healing and worse defensive cd`s...

 

Now if you consider a commando can actually burst healers to death and is a dps class/does much more damage compared to the shadow(reflected by almost double the damage at the end of the warzone), what makes the shadow so op?

 

You have never actually played one i guess, or if you did, you didn`t play other classes, or you would not be asking for a shadow nerf. (the ideea makes me lol)

 

Nerf what? There isn`t all that much a shadow can do, it`s basically a squishyer version of the guardian, with a bit more damage and no Force Leap....

[_Scattered_]

Shadows are not better at tanking.

 

Juggs have more armour, better defensive cooldowns, equivalent or better mobility, better cc and receive more benefits from a shield. Shadows make up for this with increased damage output and some utility.

 

Powertech damage is decent and are better at tanking, if all classes were exactly equal then the game would boring like wow.

 

Juggs are the most defensive tank, however their damage I think is still too low.

 

Shadows are most offensive tanks, they are supposed to do the most damage.

 

Kinetic shadows in dps gear are not tanks (though you seem to only complain about full tank shadows), in BiS gear I have 17k hp, if guard is too strong it is only because a guarded healer is just ridiculous.

Edited February 29, 2012 by _Scattered_

[subrosian]

Gotta give this guy credit 14 pages later and he's still going, the one man army trying to get this stuff nerfed.

 

No, it just proves that the moderation team isn't doing their job. Post a single swear word? Moderated. Troll an entire class across dozens of topics for two weeks on end with factually incorrect information, send death threats to people via PMs and constantly belittle people who disagree with you?

 

No problem, keep right on posting.

 

The point of having moderated forums is to keep people who are opposed to facts from posting. If I wanted random ill-informed trolls instead of discussion from people who have actually played the class they're discussing at a skilled level of play, I would go to MMO-Champion

Edited February 29, 2012 by subrosian

[bahugboto]

The only time i have been top damage as a shadow was when we had no dps, just healers and tanks, or every dps simply sucked...

 

I run a hybrid build, no aoe at all... and i barely break 350k in a game when i get healed all the game in voidstar vs a team that doesn`t only have tanks(so i do higher damage)

 

My commando did 600k+ as gunnery, also a single target dps build...

 

My shadow has, in it`s tank stance, 40% mitigation.

My commando has, in it`s dps stance and spamming grav round, 40% mitigation.

 

The shadow has devensive cooldowns and a pathetic self healing...

The commando has better self healing and worse defensive cd`s...

 

Now if you consider a commando can actually burst healers to death and is a dps class/does much more damage compared to the shadow(reflected by almost double the damage at the end of the warzone), what makes the shadow so op?

 

You have never actually played one i guess, or if you did, you didn`t play other classes, or you would not be asking for a shadow nerf. (the ideea makes me lol)

 

Nerf what? There isn`t all that much a shadow can do, it`s basically a squishyer version of the guardian, with a bit more damage and no Force Leap....

 

It's a general consensus that the Guardian is the squishiest of all tank clases when all tree are specced to tank when you take their ability utilities into context. A shadow heals are better and more constant than a powertech if they go kinetic build, so you are wrong about the heals part, A guardian have more armor than a shadow, but their only saving grace is 2 shields that proc for 10 secs every 3 min, and no permanent healing abilities whatsoever(with the exception of Guadian leap which is weak), added to that the worst dps output among all tanking class and melee, so it's obvious a Guardian needs a buff, a shadow a nerf to bring it down to the level of powertech, the nerf should come in small increments, like nerfing harnessed shadow so that it can be interupted and reducing the amount healed from 3-2%. It's an entirely legit argument. A tanking Guardian can be buffed by instead of extending the enure last longer, make enure heals last permanently as long as it's not over the max hp when it expires, reducing the CD time of both shields. That would be a fair start and we can work from there for better improved balance.

[bahugboto]

Shadows are not better at tanking.

 

Juggs have more armour, better defensive cooldowns, equivalent or better mobility, better cc and receive more benefits from a shield. Shadows make up for this with increased damage output and some utility.

 

Powertech damage is decent and are better at tanking, if all classes were exactly equal then the game would boring like wow.

 

Juggs are the most defensive tank, however their damage I think is still too low.

 

Shadows are most offensive tanks, they are supposed to do the most damage.

 

Kinetic shadows in dps gear are not tanks (though you seem to only complain about full tank shadows), in BiS gear I have 17k hp, if guard is too strong it is only because a guarded healer is just ridiculous.

 

Guardian have more mobility?

Explain and don't give me force leap and charge nonsense.

 

Juggs have better defensive cooldowns?

explain - List me all the Guardian defensive abilities and tell me their cooldown and duration

Edited February 29, 2012 by bahugboto

[subrosian]

It's a general consensus that the Guardian is the squishiest of all tank clases when all tree are specced to tank when you take their ability utilities into context

 

Wrong.

 

The consensus among people who have actually cleared Nightmare modes is that the Guardian / Juggernaut take the LEAST damage and have the highest degree of mitigation. Juggernauts / Guardians have +10% passive mitigation over Shadows / Assassins who maintain 100% uptime on Ward.

 

 

 

 

A shadow heals are better and more constant than a powertech if they go kinetic build, so you are wrong about the heals part

 

Wrong.

 

Shadow / Assassin healing is based on RNG, it's extremely inconsistent and only heals for a small amount in PVE... and even less in PVP.

 

 

 

 

A guardian have more armor than a shadow, but their only saving grace is 2 shields that proc for 10 secs every 3 min, and no permanent healing abilities whatsoever(with the exception of Guadian leap which is weak), added to that the worst dps output among all tanking class and melee

 

Guardians aren't intended to be a DPS-Tank, your point is irrelevant. Tanks are judged on their mitigation, and Guardians / Juggernauts have the HIGHEST MITIGATION and HIGHEST EFFECTIVE HEALTH of all Tanks.

 

 

 

so it's obvious a Guardian needs a buff, a shadow a nerf to bring it down to the level of powertech

 

Guardians / Juggernauts have the HIGHEST MITIGATION and HIGHEST EFFECTIVE HEALTH. Why would you buff the strongest tank in the game? Your failure to play them correctly does not change that they are the best Tanking class in the game on the primary Tank statistic.

 

 

the nerf should come in small increments, like nerfing harnessed shadow so that it can be interupted and reducing the amount healed from 3-2%.

 

So your goal is to make an already-weak Tanking class into an even weaker Tanking class, based on the fact that you're bad at PVP? Excellent idea, and I'm sure you have access to the Bioware-Exclusive metrics that are used to balance classes? Oh right, you don't.

 

 

 

It's an entirely legit argument.

 

Wrong.

 

It's an opinionated, illegitimate argument you continue to make based on your inability to grasp how Assassin Tanks function. I'm sorry that you're bad at playing your Juggernaut, I really am, but actively campaigning to nerf a class you don't like into the ground so that you can feel better about your play ability isn't the answer.

 

You could roll an Assassin and you would have the same problems you're having on your Juggernaut, plus the additional problems that come with having lower mitigation.

 

 

 

A tanking Guardian can be buffed by instead of extending the enure last longer, make enure heals last permanently as long as it's not over the max hp when it expires, reducing the CD time of both shields. That would be a fair start and we can work from there for better improved balance.

You're playing the class with the HIGHEST MITIGATION, HIGHEST EFFECTIVE HEALTH and MOST DAMAGE REDUCTION in the game. Period. The end. You are now asking for your class to be given *even more damage reduction* despite the fact that Juggernauts / Guardians would need to be nerfed to be brought in line with Assassins and Powertechs in terms of the amount of damage they can shrug off.

 

That's going to become hugely relevant as Nightmare modes ramp up in difficulty - if we start getting "Tank Killer" bosses, Juggernauts are going to become the only tank that serious guilds use, as they are horribly overpowered.

 

You're simply going to have to accept that you're doing poorly in PVP because you're not working on improving. As long as you continue to blame "class balance" for your poor PVP performance, you won't improve, because you cannot fix a problem you refuse to take responsibility for. Like the overweight guy who says he's "big boned", your denial is going to keep you from solving a personal problem.

[_Scattered_]

Guardian have more mobility?

Explain and don't give me force leap and charge nonsense.

 

Juggs have better defensive cooldowns?

explain - List me all the Guardian defensive abilities and tell me their cooldown and duration

 

Charge with cc immunity and intercede is nonsense? How is a 2 second speed boost comparable?

 

Saber ward 12 seconds

Endure pain 10 seconds

Invincible 10 seconds

 

Shadows have:

 

Deflection 12 seconds (exactly the same as Saber Ward)

Resilience 5 seconds

[Gurdbud]

Every class has a way to deal with a Shadow/Assassin the problem here I believe exists between the keyboard and the chair.

[bahugboto]

Charge with cc immunity and intercede is nonsense? How is a 2 second speed boost comparable?

 

Saber ward 12 seconds

Endure pain 10 seconds

Invincible 10 seconds

 

Shadows have:

 

Deflection 12 seconds (exactly the same as Saber Ward)

Resilience 5 seconds

 

The more you attempt to play down the shadow ability the more pathetic the argument becomes, do not attempt to play down stuff, won't work with me or anyone knowledgeable about this.

 

Guardian:

 

Saber ward 12 seconds reduces whites by (50% but force by only 25%) Cooldown 3Min

 

Endure pain 10 seconds (pretty much a useless crap ability to use midfights, somewhat useful when used alongside a medpack to increase health boost, but it's no permanent heal, and when the timer expires it takes away all the heals or health boost it innitially gives you, so basically a weak sauce ability especially when you have no healer nearby to back you up, no replacement for a proper heal whatsoever)

 

Invincible 10 seconds(40% damage reduction to all) Another long cooldown with short duration ability that is proc once every 3 min. By the time the next proc arrive you have taken a 2.50 min beat down.

 

Shadow

 

Kinetic Ward (can and should be proc as soon as possible, will last indefinitely, will be extremely useful against any classes apart for sages, and some other classes depending on their build considering their constant shielding)

 

Deflection 50% melee/range mitigation for 12 seconds, 2 minute cooldown ( very much a weaker cousin of Saber Ward but with a much faster cooldown)

 

Resilience (100% tech/force mitigation for 6 seconds, 45 second cooldown) Another overpowered proc with an extremely short cooldown time, allowing you to proc it at crucial moments in PVP, that adds to 24 secs of complete force immunity over 3 Min, if this is not overpowered i don't know what is!)

 

Battle Readiness (10% instant self heal + increased self heal for 15 seconds, 2 minute cooldown, use in conjunction with medpack and TT another unnecessary PEMANENT survivability proc)

 

Harnessed Shadow(Heals 3% of Hp every tick using the right rotation giving the user a potential to heal for over 2.3k hp every 12 sec or so)

 

Added to these already overpowering survivability tool vs a Guardian, the Shadow can out DPS a Guardian and kite a Guardian and certainly out tank a Guardian(which by rule of logic should be completely the opposite) and you are basing your weak arguments based on playing down a shadow potential?

Edited February 29, 2012 by bahugboto

[LordZanos]

?

Shadows/Assassins seem pretty fine to me. I die if they manage good uptime and I don't kite them when they put their cloak up, but usually I'm fine. It's not like they have incredible openers or anything.

 

Their 100% resist cloak is very very good, but I'm fairly sure it has a high cooldown.

[Artthen]

Hello everyone! We would like to share a general reminder that it is very important to keep the following guidelines in mind while posting:

 

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[bahugboto]

Hello everyone! We would like to share a general reminder that it is very important to keep the following guidelines in mind while posting:

 

• Insults - Please do not resort to or use them in any way in your posts. Posts should be productive, not destructive.
  
• Trolling - Please do not post messages that are purposefully designed to provoke, antagonize, or otherwise elicit a negative emotional response.
  
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Thanks for your cooperation!

 

Just remove the offensive post, but please don't close the thread. There is obviously very serious unresolved issues here, that must be looked at.

Edited February 29, 2012 by bahugboto

[bahugboto]

?

Shadows/Assassins seem pretty fine to me. I die if they manage good uptime and I don't kite them when they put their cloak up, but usually I'm fine. It's not like they have incredible openers or anything.

 

Their 100% resist cloak is very very good, but I'm fairly sure it has a high cooldown.

 

45 sec cooldown is not high cooldown.

[Talraen]

And as per usual, you have completely minimized / ignored peoples completely valid and correct information.

 

Trolling for 15 pages straight... gotta be a record of some sort

 

And please use a reliable source for your information, instead of making things up (as usual)

 

Force Shroud = http://www.torhead.com/ability/3qAwuaY/force-shroud

 

Untraited its 60 seconds CD. Which means 3 seconds every minute untraited

Edited February 29, 2012 by Talraen

[_Scattered_]

Resilience 5 seconds.

 

Battle readiness is a small heal, it allows for combat technique to proc every 1.5 seconds. Combat technique is a 400 heal, it has 50% chance to proc, so during battle readiness that is 130 hps.

 

You underestimate the strength of endure pain and invincible (one of the best cds in the game).

 

Telekinetic throw is a 2k heal over 3 seconds, it is not a "defensive cd". It can be interupted by stuns/disorients/knockbacks, you are immobile for the duration, it has a 10 yard range. Harnessed shadows cannot be stacked as cds permit due force starvation.

 

The heal on TK throw is low for anything other than duelling other tanks when good players will kill each within 20 seconds. This is why you don't like shadows, its because they beat you in 1v1. Get over it.

 

It is obvious that you are trying to solo, which is silly because a tank jugg will get owned by just about any class 1v1. Save yourself some frustration and respec smash/sweep build.

 

Really, as I have said I think jugg damage is too low, but good juggs have the highest survivability in the game, end of story. Tank juggs are not a solo spec/class, this is a team focused game and is balanced around team play.

Edited February 29, 2012 by _Scattered_

[Roiz]

Sorcs and Mercs do way more damage in warzones than tank assasins.

PLEASE NERF TRACER MISSILE AND LIGHTING SPAM FIRST.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Roiz

[Helig]

This game is unacceptable without magical sparkle ponies.

I approve of this post.