Warzone Quitters ...

[TheRFC]

maybe they dont have a lot of time

 

 

Exactly.

 

35 hours of WZs a week is a LOT ...

 

I play maybe an hour or so a day if that now ... 3 WZs isn't really much to do.

 

This would benefit both casuals and hardcores.

[TheRFC]

Ya know....

 

this is just a game.

 

 

My whole point was kind of ... that.

 

It's obvious you haven't read the whole thing so I'll summarise.

 

 

- It's only a game.

- My solution = no punishments + problems solved + more fun = everyone wins.

[Elysion]

maybe they dont have a lot of time

 

There is an mmo for people who dont have time to actually play it:

progressquest.com

[Luxidenstore]

There is an mmo for people who dont have time to actually play it:

progressquest.com

 

So if you don't play 5 hours a day, you don't have time to play a MMO?

 

lol

[skyflash]

SOLUTION;

- Change the conditions for the Daily/Weekly rewards so they aren't W/L mandatory.

- Change medals so that they HEAVILY reward objective play, not solo farming.

That's it ... ? Pretty much!

 

Ok, lets say we do that. We change the daily so that people do not need to win the game, but they need to pass the ball, score points, cap posts and something like that.

 

Here is what I will do:

 

- In huttball, I will zerg in the middle and wait for the ball to reappear so I can pass it to somebody that makes a goal or I will just run through trying to make my own goal for my daily. And you wont get the ball, cause I got ForceSpeed and a shield. I wont pass, ever, unless you are behind the goal line.

 

- If the enemy has the ball and does run away out of my range, I wont go chasing him, because it doesnt matter if he scores a point, cause if the enemy scores a point, it doesnt affect my daily, so why should I care? Let him run, hopefully he will let me run too so we both get a point for the daily.

 

- I will never ever heal again, because healing will not get me anything for my daily, at most I will heal the 75K for my medals.

 

- If I capture a turret and got my 3000 medal I will move away from the turret so the enemy can capture it, so I can recapture it for objective points. I fully expect the enemy to do the same for me, cause defending a turret is useless more or less.

 

- I will just let the enemy run through all the doors in Voidstar so he gets all his daily objective points, and he will hopefully do the same for me.... maybe we zerg a little bit at the end so we get some more medals.

 

This is PvP after your great reward for objectives idea.

Edited February 14, 2012 by skyflash

[AidenPryde]

Most people on these forums have no idea what a lockout will really do to PvP.

 

You think that that will decrease the likelyhood of people leaving?

 

Probably not. See people leave when they lose hope.

 

I leave WZs all the time when the Pubes get to the last door with 4 minutes remaining.

 

I leave when Huttball is 5-0.

 

I leave when the other team has a 3 cap on Alderaan.

 

I will however stay if it is 2-1, 4-5 in Huttball for example.

 

Honestly I will probably stop WZing if they put a debuff on me for leaving. Mostly because every other patch I crash randomly and sometimes I crash simply because this game has a memory leak.

 

Even if they change the daily so that you don't have to win it won't solve the problem.

 

A debuff on people that leave isn't a solution simply because people do crash to desktop a lot in this game. Why should they be punished because the game isn't robust enough to deal with critical memory errors caused by the program? Even if it does get rid of the leavers (like myself) it will still penalize people that legitimately crash. And if they have a crash detection system people will just launch task manager and force quit to spoof it.

 

A better system would be to reward players for actions inside the WZs.

 

A Huttball match for example would have these objectives that count toward a 0/50 daily.

 

1. Score the ball.

2. Pass the ball.

3. Pass the ball to someone who then scores.

4. Kill the ball carrier.

5. Kill 40 enemy players.

6. Heal 300k damage.

7. Knock someone into the acid pit who then dies.

 

etc, etc etc.

 

Per WZ these actions cannot be performed more than once and still count towards your daily. This system rewards people for completing the objectives instead of penalizing a significant portion of the player base for crashes.

Edited February 14, 2012 by AidenPryde

[TheRFC]

There is an mmo for people who dont have time to actually play it:

progressquest.com

 

 

But you're taking a very selfish/ subjective outlook and applying your standards to others who don't have that much time.

 

They could simply counter and it becomes a cyclic argument which just divides people and either the issues continue or people just leave.

 

I've thrown you a simple solution to the main issue people are concerned about - I can't advocate agreeing that the game should be made to your own exact likes/dislikes.

 

Key-word: Comprimise.

[skyflash]

Per WZ these actions cannot be performed more than once and still count towards your daily. This system rewards people for completing the objectives instead of penalizing a significant portion of the player base for crashes.

 

LOL so you think we cannot have a penalty for leaving because of the crashes? Maybe, just maybe the crashes need to be fixed, now?

 

Also in MY system you wouldnt be penalized for crashing, just if you crash and do not log back in to the BG you left. But if you dont log back in, then the 15 minute debuff wouldnt bother you anyway.

[darthtoph]

I was doing a Warzone earlier today and got kicked back to the login screen. Ok, I'm a scumbag and I admit it!

[skyflash]

I was doing a Warzone earlier today and got kicked back to the login screen. Ok, I'm a scumbag and I admit it!

 

So wouldnt it be great if after your relog you would end up in the same BG you left to be able to play it to the end?

[Viper_RedHand]

Your sarcasm is a bit thick for my taste, however, I mostly agree. IMO objective rewards need to be substantially higher and kill rewards heavily lowered. Healers need some love too, they should get as much for healing as tanks do for protecting.

[TheRFC]

Ok, lets say we do that. We change the daily so that people do not need to win the game, but they need to pass the ball, score points, cap posts and something like that.

 

Here is what I will do:

 

- In huttball, I will zerg in the middle and wait for the ball to reappear so I can pass it to somebody that makes a goal or I will just run through trying to make my own goal for my daily.

 

- If the enemy has the ball and does run away out of my range, I wont go chasing him, because it doesnt matter if he scores a point, cause if the enemy scores a point, it doesnt affect my daily, so why should I care? Let him run, hopefully he will let me run too so we both get a point for the daily.

 

- I will never ever heal again, because healing will not get me anything for my daily, at most I will heal the 75K for my medal.

 

- If I capture a turret and got my 3000 medal I will move away from the turret so the enemy can capture it, so I can recapture it for objective points. I fully expect the enemy to do the same for me, cause defending a turret is useless more or less.

 

- I will just let the enemy run through all the doors in Voidstar so he gets all his daily objective points, and he will hopefully do the same for me.... maybe we zerg a little bit at the end so we get some more medals.

 

This is PvP after your great reward for objectives idea.

 

 

 

I'm positive people aren't reading what I've written beyond the title or inept skimming.

 

 

- Why won't you be able to easily run through w/ the ball? All the other team are incentivised to lay the damage on you hard.

 

- The reason you'll wish to chase down the ball carrier is because YOU get rewarded for attacking them.

 

- You'll heal the ball-carrier/ team-mates attacking/ defending an objective.

 

- You'll get points for defending AND attacking nodes. Currently only for defending.

 

- The VS point? Each to their own I guess.

 

 

 

At the end of the day, pretty much all your points ALREADY happen.

 

My way? You get rewarded for helping the team with positive altruistic actions and you don't get rewarded for solo-farming.

 

All this about co-ordinating w/ the enemy team to do this/ that? I've rarely been able to co-ordinate my OWN team.

 

I've never seen any of the described behaviour in WZs even and I can't see it happening at all. Especially not after ranked matches come in.

[TheRFC]

I was doing a Warzone earlier today and got kicked back to the login screen. Ok, I'm a scumbag and I admit it!

 

 

LOL. I believe I played the sarcasm a little too hard.

 

If you care to read the rest I believe you'll agree with what I say.

[TheRFC]

LOL so you think we cannot have a penalty for leaving because of the crashes? Maybe, just maybe the crashes need to be fixed, now?

 

Also in MY system you wouldnt be penalized for crashing, just if you crash and do not log back in to the BG you left. But if you dont log back in, then the 15 minute debuff wouldnt bother you anyway.

 

 

They can not even fix the issue of Wins not counting. I don't want them tinkering with anything that is SUPPOSED to punish people.

 

With all the glitches/bugs playing this game can be punishing enough for most players.

[TheRFC]

Your sarcasm is a bit thick for my taste, however, I mostly agree. IMO objective rewards need to be substantially higher and kill rewards heavily lowered. Healers need some love too, they should get as much for healing as tanks do for protecting.

 

 

I agree, someone in my guild regularly hits 500K healing in WZs and gets 4 medals in total at the end ...

 

It'd be easy to encourage all the different classes w/ their different strengths to play together by just giving them not 1 big common goal, but many smaller common goals along the way.

[Elysion]

So if you don't play 5 hours a day, you don't have time to play a MMO?

 

I would say 5 is about the minimum.

 

I mean jeez, proper mmo group etiquette is to at least stick around for what, 3 hours? Takes time to find a group, and you've got other things to do as well.

 

 

But you're taking a very selfish/ subjective outlook and applying your standards to others who don't have that much time.

 

You know, it sucks if people dont have time. Theres things i wish i could do that I cant.

 

But honestly 5 hours average is not really asking much, thats actually on the lite side. 5 hours is sort of the 'if you for whatever reason cant at least manage that, then dont even bother trying to log in that day' territory.

 

What, are there people who leveled by doing 1 or 2 quests a day? Thats inspiring and such but expecting the game to cater to this sort of play style is the same as expecting the game to have a pause button.

 

Now, currently, this game pretty much only has pvp. Its pve is laughable, so the only real reason to play it is to pvp, which is actually by some strange accident pretty good for a themepark mmo. So given those circumstances i dont think its unreasonable to expect someone who is 'into' pvp to spend the majority of their time in this game at the level cap pvping, since thats all there is worth doing.

 

Now i suppose you may say getting the stuff for the pve gear that you need to have optimal gear for pvp takes time, so yeah, its probably off for me to say that its okay for a daily to take 5 hours to complete. But it should at least take a couple hours.

[TheRFC]

lmao@this game.

 

Seriously, don't get wound up about it, it's not worth it.

 

Just accept that it's bad and move on.

 

 

Yeah, I'm really beginning to agree.

 

Playing 3 WZs hundreds of times over is very testing on the patience. If I get a debuff for a game glitch that would be buh-bye at this point I think.

[Mindsplitter]

I AM a scumbag quitter. I quit just to pump up your blood pressure, you know who you are. I join warzones all day long and just quit them. Fun Fun. Hahahahahaahah.

[skyflash]

Well, if you had played Warhammer Online, you would know your idea fails in reality.

 

In Warhammer people would attack a castle, while the enemy would not defend it. Then the enemy would attack another castle, and no one would defend it.

 

Why?

 

Because if winning is completely irrelevant, it is much faster to just create a 5:6 result in 1 minute and then do the next BG. Why fight the enemy? It just wastes time.

 

Players will learn fast, in Warhammer it took like 2 weeks for people to realize the fastest way.

 

A skillfull PvP server with smart players will be able to complete 10 games with a huttball 6:5 in maybe 15 minutes.

 

Objective trading is ALWAYS faster than PvP combat.

 

As long as the objectives of the one group does not mean the other group can not get their objectives, the system will not work. You need contradicting objectives, otherwise there is no conflict and the two sides will play together.

[Dalytron]

I leave WZs all the time when the Pubes get to the last door with 4 minutes remaining.

 

Curly bastards!

[TheRFC]

I would say 5 is about the minimum.

 

I mean jeez, proper mmo group etiquette is to at least stick around for what, 3 hours? Takes time to find a group, and you've got other things to do as well.

 

 

 

 

You know, it sucks if people dont have time. Theres things i wish i could do that I cant.

 

But honestly 5 hours average is not really asking much, thats actually on the lite side. 5 hours is sort of the 'if you for whatever reason cant at least manage that, then dont even bother trying to log in that day' territory.

 

What, are there people who leveled by doing 1 or 2 quests a day? Thats inspiring and such but expecting the game to cater to this sort of play style is the same as expecting the game to have a pause button.

 

Now, currently, this game pretty much only has pvp. Its pve is laughable, so the only real reason to play it is to pvp, which is actually by some strange accident pretty good for a themepark mmo. So given those circumstances i dont think its unreasonable to expect someone who is 'into' pvp to spend the majority of their time in this game at the level cap pvping, since thats all there is worth doing.

 

Now i suppose you may say getting the stuff for the pve gear that you need to have optimal gear for pvp takes time, so yeah, its probably off for me to say that its okay for a daily to take 5 hours to complete. But it should at least take a couple hours.

 

 

 

 

But I'm not saying 'OMG 5 hours?! What a loser!' If you enjoy the game and have/ want to spent that much time PvPing then God Speed, friend. I have no right to judge you.

 

 

I wouldn't consider myself a 'casual', hit L50 in around 6 days and R61V in around 2 and a half weeks. I've put a LOT of time into this game in a short period and I've actually written threads about why throwing gear at people is a bad idea and detrimental for the game as a whole.

 

 

But we can't adopt the mentality 'well they don't spend as much time so don't deserve to play'. W/O casuals this game would pretty much die.

 

 

If anything I'd like to see more to do PvP-wise and maybe reward people for playing more by letting them accept an extra Daily or something if they wish. Normally complete the Weekly in the first day for both Ilum and WZs so would be nice to have extra stuff, IMO.

 

 

But a comprimise is needed on certain issues like this.

[Cassynova]

OP, Since you have high valor rank, play huttball a lot, and can get 3 wz wins in a hour, I'm going to guess you're play as an Imp.

 

I do agree that the medals need to be about objectives...the current system leaves some classes in the dust. The medal system heavily favors hybrids. A sniper can have an epic game leading in damage and interrupts on captures, and get 4 medals. But a SI or tank can get 9 medals for a mediocre performance. Hence they get geared much, much quicker but didn't contribute as much.

 

 

Adding wz debuffs will only further decrease the amount of time Reps play (on most realms at least), as it can easily take 5 hours to get 3 wins as a Rep, and it's just getting worse. More and more pvp reps I know are stopping pvp entirely or swapping to Imp Side.

 

A much bigger and better motivational tool would be to add more rewards to the under represented side so that wzs could approach being balanced. Instead, they're just adding more same faction wzs, meaning there's even less reason to be a Rep.

 

So yes, swtor pvp had much potential but needed massive refinement.

However, I doubt it can recover from faction balance issues.

[TheRFC]

Well, if you had played Warhammer Online, you would know your idea fails in reality.

 

In Warhammer people would attack a castle, while the enemy would not defend it. Then the enemy would attack another castle, and no one would defend it.

 

Why?

 

Because if winning is completely irrelevant, it is much faster to just create a 5:6 result in 1 minute and then do the next BG. Why fight the enemy? It just wastes time.

 

Players will learn fast, in Warhammer it took like 2 weeks for people to realize the fastest way.

 

A skillfull PvP server with smart players will be able to complete 10 games with a huttball 6:5 in maybe 15 minutes.

 

Objective trading is ALWAYS faster than PvP combat.

 

As long as the objectives of the one group does not mean the other group can not get their objectives, the system will not work. You need contradicting objectives, otherwise there is no conflict and the two sides will play together.

 

 

But I'm suggesting making the COMBAT objective.

 

If you're being rewarded for attacking as well as defending a node then why just trade capping it? If you're being rewarded for attacking the ball carrier and taking the ball away from them, and someone else is then being rewarded for healing you if you're the ball carrier then my goals clash with my opponents goals.

 

It becomes more beneficial to me to play for MY team and not just swap things back and forth.

 

Ofc this can be exploited but so can anything. Currently W/L means nothing because the game isn't competitive. 99% of matches are wipe-outs where one teams gets completely thrashed so it counters any argument that the 'WIN' for the sake of it is meaningful and you can't blame people for quitting early for their dailies.

 

My way? It encourages people to fight tooth and nail for the objective, increasing the competitive element and it makes winning mean something and makes it fulfilling.

[LanceUpercutt]

I would say 5 is about the minimum.

 

i think bioware would disagree

[TheRFC]

OP, Since you have high valor rank, play huttball a lot, and can get 3 wz wins in a hour, I'm going to guess you're play as an Imp.

 

I do agree that the medals need to be about objectives...the current system leaves some classes in the dust. The medal system heavily favors hybrids. A sniper can have an epic game leading in damage and interrupts on captures, and get 4 medals. But a SI or tank can get 9 medals for a mediocre performance. Hence they get geared much, much quicker but didn't contribute as much.

 

 

Adding wz debuffs will only further decrease the amount of time Reps play (on most realms at least), as it can easily take 5 hours to get 3 wins as a Rep, and it's just getting worse. More and more pvp reps I know are stopping pvp entirely or swapping to Imp Side.

 

A much bigger and better motivational tool would be to add more rewards to the under represented side so that wzs could approach being balanced. Instead, they're just adding more same faction wzs, meaning there's even less reason to be a Rep.

 

So yes, swtor pvp had much potential but needed massive refinement.

However, I doubt it can recover from faction balance issues.

 

 

 

I agree that the biggest issue this game faces is faction imbalance.

 

I think it can be solved but to include it in this thread would make it longer than it already is.

 

Hopefully the Legacy system w/ include a feature where you can level an alt on the opposite faction twice or thrice as fast or something. If that was the case I'd happily make a Republic alt despite really liking my current char.

 

I've made a few alts but all on Imps and I currently can't bear that 5-6 hours moving at snail pace w/o sprint. It's the most off-putting thing for me personally after being through it around 7 times now.

 

But yes, the imbalance needs addressing and punishments will only mean Imps vs. Imps Huttball all the time pretty much.