PulseRazor Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 The Title Grand Moff as I understood it was invented by Emperor Palpatine, Tarkin was the first to hold the title. I wonder if Bioware considered this before placing a 'Grand Moff' in their game during the OR era. I doubt inconsistancies like this will change because of the voice acting scripts, but it would have been nice to have finer attention paid to these details. Great game though. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Grand_Moff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 What? Where did you read Palpatine was the one who invented it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solbjorn Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Grand Moff was the title given to the Regional Governors of Oversectors. These sectors, also called Priority Sectors, were locations that were of special interest to the Emperor. These included the Imperial capital of Coruscant and the Death Star. The system was used by a number of governments: Odile Vaiken was the first Grand Moff of the Sith Empire, while Wilhuff Tarkin was the first Grand Moff of the Galactic Empire, and held authority over multiple Priority Sectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedroni Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Ok, that's *what* you read, but *where* did you read it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkz Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Ok, that's *what* you read, but *where* did you read it? They read it in the wookieepedia article that the OP linked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraidy Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) I like how the link the OP proves he is wrong. lol? Edited February 14, 2012 by kraidy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelousWang Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Grand Moff was the title given to the Regional Governors of Oversectors. These sectors, also called Priority Sectors, were locations that were of special interest to the Emperor. These included the Imperial capital of Coruscant and the Death Star. The system was used by a number of governments: Odile Vaiken was the first Grand Moff of the Sith Empire, while Wilhuff Tarkin was the first Grand Moff of the Galactic Empire, and held authority over multiple Priority Sectors. Basically a Moff is the military governor of a sector of space (or a few) and a Grand Moff governs the most Important sectors of space. In rank they are equivalent to Fleet Admirals/Grand Generals but they have control of all military forces within their territory even on the same rank. Except Sith, who of course are above the Imperial Military, they would only get authority over Sith in emergency situations, and even then that's up to the Sith if he plays along or not. Edited February 14, 2012 by AngelousWang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanorDM Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 but it would have been nice to have finer attention paid to these details. Hate to say it, but you could stand to take your own advice... Or at least read the link you provided. If so you'd see that the title Grand Moff predates Palpatine by about 20,000 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PulseRazor Posted February 15, 2012 Author Share Posted February 15, 2012 Thank you, I understand now, I was under the impression that the title was made up for Tarkin, which I believe I read somewhere in the Dark Lord Trilogy. Your clarification is appreciated, but some could have explained it with less pith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparklecat Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Basically a Moff is the military governor of a sector of space (or a few) and a Grand Moff governs the most Important sectors of space. In rank they are equivalent to Fleet Admirals/Grand Generals but they have control of all military forces within their territory even on the same rank. Except Sith, who of course are above the Imperial Military, they would only get authority over Sith in emergency situations, and even then that's up to the Sith if he plays along or not. You certain that's how it works? I've been wondering about who outranks whom because (Ilum spoilers): You see Grand Moff whatever yelling at Darth Malgus on Ilum who seems to just... accept it. They both acted like it was entirely proper for each other and themselves to behave in such a fashion. Confused me quite a bit, especially when he followed it up by yelling at my warrior and then 'I'm sorry, my lord'ing when she choked him for it. Even if Malgus is just really weird for a Sith, it seems odd that the Grand Moff would expect to be able to get away with such behaviour in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartanik Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) The Title Grand Moff as I understood it was invented by Emperor Palpatine, Tarkin was the first to hold the title. I wonder if Bioware considered this before placing a 'Grand Moff' in their game during the OR era. I doubt inconsistancies like this will change because of the voice acting scripts, but it would have been nice to have finer attention paid to these details. Great game though. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Grand_Moff You realize that palpatine modeled his empire on The sith empires of old?! he didnt invent the title of Moff. I sugest you watch the timeline videos they explain this quite nicely. And no where in that text says palpatine invented the title..... tarkin was the first gran moff of THE GALATIC EMPIRE not the first Moff ever. here http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/timeline awesome to watch too bad they wont update the thing Edited February 15, 2012 by Spartanik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girdeux Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) The Title Grand Moff as I understood it was invented by Emperor Palpatine, Tarkin was the first to hold the title. I wonder if Bioware considered this before placing a 'Grand Moff' in their game during the OR era. I doubt inconsistancies like this will change because of the voice acting scripts, but it would have been nice to have finer attention paid to these details. Great game though. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Grand_Moff Its just EU to movie inconsistencies, alot of them are in the game. Bioware is just trying to make the game look as close to the movies as possible...Even when its stated the Grand Moff Title never existed before Palpatines empire, troopers in TOR looking very close to clonetrooper armor etc. Edited February 15, 2012 by Girdeux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrong_turn Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 They way to look at it is, Palpatine may have created the position of Grand Moff for his Empire, but he didn't create the title Grand Moff. That had been in use well before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanorDM Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 .Even when its stated the Grand Moff Title never existed before Palpatines empire Where exactly does it state that? Because if you read the link the OP posted, you'd see that according to the EU lore, the title Grand Moff existed for between 20,000 to 25,000 years BBY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girdeux Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Where exactly does it state that? Because if you read the link the OP posted, you'd see that according to the EU lore, the title Grand Moff existed for between 20,000 to 25,000 years BBY. Thats in the EU lore, where alot of writer tries to jam stuff in places it shouldnt be. Im also assuming the OP is talking about movie-continuity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurkz Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Thats in the EU lore, where alot of writer tries to jam stuff in places it shouldnt be. Im also assuming the OP is talking about movie-continuity. Where in movie continuity does it state that Palpatine created the Grand Moff title just for Tarkin? Not in the movies I've watched. He's just... Grand Moff Tarkin and that's that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VanorDM Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Where in movie continuity does it state that Palpatine created the Grand Moff title just for Tarkin? I'll have to echo this, because no where in any movie does it say anything about how Palp created the title, let alone just for Tarkin. If you are going to throw out the EU lore, then you'll have to provide a quote from the movie to back up your statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelousWang Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) You certain that's how it works? I've been wondering about who outranks whom because (Ilum spoilers): You see Grand Moff whatever yelling at Darth Malgus on Ilum who seems to just... accept it. They both acted like it was entirely proper for each other and themselves to behave in such a fashion. Confused me quite a bit, especially when he followed it up by yelling at my warrior and then 'I'm sorry, my lord'ing when she choked him for it. Even if Malgus is just really weird for a Sith, it seems odd that the Grand Moff would expect to be able to get away with such behaviour in general. The Sith are above the Imperial Military. But so are Moff's, they aren't under direct Sith authority (below the Dark Council anyway) so they can kind of get away with talking to Sith like equals, if the Sith will put up with it. Your Sith was good example of Sith that would not, Malgus on the other hand does. Dark Lord/Sith Emperor | Dark Lord's Apprentice/Emperors Wrath/Voice of the Emperor (anyone else working for the Emperor directly) | Dark Council ............................................... | ............................................. | | | Darths Keeper Minister of War | | | Lords Imperial Intelligence Grand Moff | | | Overseers/Trainers/Inquisitors | Moffs | | | Sith | Planetary Governor | | | Acolytes | | |................................................|.............................................| | Imperial Military | Civilians given political titles. | Nobles/Powerful force user producing Bloodlines. | Citizens | Slaves Sith only answer to each other and the Dark Council up. They can kill Moff's, Imperial Agents and even the Grand Moff, however they must be careful of doing this without reasonable cause as the Dark Council may have issue with doing this which can lead to repercussions. They cannot give orders to Moff's or Imperial Agents without Dark Council Authority, however they can order Planetary Governors about (and kill them too). They are free to kill and order about any Sith lower than themselves and Imperials for any reason. They can kill each other on the same rank with impunity too (provided it does not upset the order). They may only kill higher Ranked Sith and up to take their place. Acolytes can order and kill lesser Imperials only. They are not even allowed to kill each other without permission (except under orders or within Naga Sadow tomb). Moff is a political title (Governor of a sector of space) granted to exceptional high ranking Military personal, they have complete authority over Imperials within their space. They cannot kill Sith or Imperial Agents without Dark Council authority. Moff's do not answer to Sith under the Dark Council directly so do not have to obey them, but they do have to show them the proper respect or risk their wrath. Grand Moff is the Governor of the main/most important sectors of space, but is just a Moff in every other way really. "Grand" is just to point out he is better than his priers. (As the Empire is all about Ego). Planetary Governors have complete authority over Imperials on their planets (most Planetary Governors tend to be Sith anyway). If they are not Sith then have no power over Sith. Imperial Intelligence have complete authority over other Imperials, however they must be careful not to overstep their position on this as it may lead to repercussions from the Dark Council or other Sith. They cannot kill Sith or Moff's without Dark Council authority. (As Imperials they must still show respect to all Sith, as lack of respect is a valid reason for Sith killing them) Moffs/Admirals/Generals/Ship Captains - Emergency Authority - occasionally if the situation calls for it Sith and Imperial Agents can be ordered about by the commanding officer of a ship/space station/ground base. However this is in completely emergency situations only (if Republic forces invaded a Imperial ship and it had Sith on-board the Captain would be allowed to command the Sith to stop the invasion). Edited February 15, 2012 by AngelousWang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beiken Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I think you might wanna bump up Minister of War as he is above Grand Moffs in rank according to Grand Moff Kilran when you talk to his holo in The Black Talon, he goes something like "Y helo thar, I am Grand Moff Kilran, second only to the Minister of War" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelousWang Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) I think you might wanna bump up Minister of War as he is above Grand Moffs in rank according to Grand Moff Kilran when you talk to his holo in The Black Talon, he goes something like "Y helo thar, I am Grand Moff Kilran, second only to the Minister of War" Well that's confusing, because a "Lord" was able to give the Minister of War his "marching orders". Which makes him seem like he is lesser than Lords, and Moff are not under Darth control (as the Grand Moff reminds Malgus), let alone Lord. Though I suppose that Lord may have been acting on Dark Council Authority, which basically overrides all Rank (except the Emperor and his direct minions). Edited February 15, 2012 by AngelousWang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyriaFrost Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Well that's confusing, because a "Lord" was able to give the Minister of War his "marching orders". Which makes him seem like he is lesser than Lords, and Moff are not under Darth control (as the Grand Moff reminds Malgus), let alone Lord. Though I suppose that Lord may have been acting on Dark Council Authority, which basically overrides all Rank (except the Emperor and his direct minions). Well, I'm pretty sure the Empire's pecking order kind of goes: Emperor > Dark Council/Emperor's Direct Flunkies > Darth > Lord > Non-Sith Military (any rank) > everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparklecat Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Well that's confusing, because a "Lord" was able to give the Minister of War his "marching orders". Which makes him seem like he is lesser than Lords, and Moff are not under Darth control (as the Grand Moff reminds Malgus), let alone Lord. Though I suppose that Lord may have been acting on Dark Council Authority, which basically overrides all Rank (except the Emperor and his direct minions). Yeah, you certainly see examples of Sith who aren't even Darths yet, but can act directly with the Emperor's authority in a couple class storylines I can think of. Also, thanks, your explanation helped clear things up quite a bit. So the Grand Moff basically just relied too much on his official rank and forgot that Sith still are, in fact, dangerous people you don't want to disrespect, because they'll always have a privileged status and be able to get away with more in the Empire? Especially one that's (sith warrior spoilers) the Emperor's Wrath and thus does actually outrank him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePawel Posted February 17, 2012 Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) Spoiler Code: Dark Lord/Sith Emperor | Dark Lord's Apprentice/Emperors Wrath/Voice of the Emperor (anyone else working for the Emperor directly) | Dark Council ............................................... | ............................................. | | | Darths Keeper Minister of War | | | Lords Imperial Intelligence Grand Moff | | | Overseers/Trainers/Inquisitors | Moffs | | | Sith | Planetary Governor | | | Acolytes | | |................................................|.............................................| | Imperial Military | Civilians given political titles. | Nobles/Powerful force user producing Bloodlines. | Citizens | SlavesSith only answer to each other and the Dark Council up. They can kill Moff's, Imperial Agents and even the Grand Moff, however they must be careful of doing this without reasonable cause as the Dark Council may have issue with doing this which can lead to repercussions. They cannot give orders to Moff's or Imperial Agents without Dark Council Authority, however they can order Planetary Governors about (and kill them too). They are free to kill and order about any Sith lower than themselves and Imperials for any reason. They can kill each other on the same rank with impunity too (provided it does not upset the order). They may only kill higher Ranked Sith and up to take their place. Acolytes can order and kill lesser Imperials only. They are not even allowed to kill each other without permission (except under orders or within Naga Sadow tomb). Moff is a political title (Governor of a sector of space) granted to exceptional high ranking Military personal, they have complete authority over Imperials within their space. They cannot kill Sith or Imperial Agents without Dark Council authority. Moff's do not answer to Sith under the Dark Council directly so do not have to obey them, but they do have to show them the proper respect or risk their wrath. Grand Moff is the Governor of the main/most important sectors of space, but is just a Moff in every other way really. "Grand" is just to point out he is better than his priers. (As the Empire is all about Ego). Planetary Governors have complete authority over Imperials on their planets (most Planetary Governors tend to be Sith anyway). If they are not Sith then have no power over Sith. Imperial Intelligence have complete authority over other Imperials, however they must be careful not to overstep their position on this as it may lead to repercussions from the Dark Council or other Sith. They cannot kill Sith or Moff's without Dark Council authority. (As Imperials they must still show respect to all Sith, as lack of respect is a valid reason for Sith killing them) Moffs/Admirals/Generals/Ship Captains - Emergency Authority - occasionally if the situation calls for it Sith and Imperial Agents can be ordered about by the commanding officer of a ship/space station/ground base. However this is in completely emergency situations only (if Republic forces invaded a Imperial ship and it had Sith on-board the Captain would be allowed to command the Sith to stop the invasion). You forgot "Minister of Intelligence". He is above Keeper. Edit: I am new here, so forgive my bad quoting-technique, and spoiler tags. Edited February 17, 2012 by ThePawel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Romana Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Grand Moff was the title given to the Regional Governors of Oversectors. These sectors, also called Priority Sectors, were locations that were of special interest to the Emperor. These included the Imperial capital of Coruscant and the Death Star. The system was used by a number of governments: Odile Vaiken was the first Grand Moff of the Sith Empire, while Wilhuff Tarkin was the first Grand Moff of the Galactic Empire, and held authority over multiple Priority Sectors. And... The title of Grand Moff, now inseparably identified with the Empire, was neither Palpatine’s nor Tarkin's invention, though both can be credited with resurrecting the title for Imperial use. In fact, the title dates back to the Expansionist Period (ca. 25,000–20,000 BBY), when the Republic frequently encountered many small satrapies and mini-empires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Romana Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) (I apologise for the double post) You certain that's how it works? I've been wondering about who outranks whom because (Ilum spoilers): You see Grand Moff whatever yelling at Darth Malgus on Ilum who seems to just... accept it. They both acted like it was entirely proper for each other and themselves to behave in such a fashion. Confused me quite a bit, especially when he followed it up by yelling at my warrior and then 'I'm sorry, my lord'ing when she choked him for it. Even if Malgus is just really weird for a Sith, it seems odd that the Grand Moff would expect to be able to get away with such behaviour in general. Do remember that Grand Moff Tarken spoke down to Darth Vader, despite him outranking Tarken. Dark Lord/Sith Emperor | Dark Lord's Apprentice/Emperors Wrath/Voice of the Emperor (anyone else working for the Emperor directly) | Dark Council You know that the Dark Council isn't ranked bellow the Emperor's Wrath and certainly not the Emperor's apprentice. These are just the Sith who answer directly to the Emperor, whilst everyone else in the Empire ultimately answers to the Dark Council. Edited February 20, 2012 by Darth_Romana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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