Boring Static World of SWTOR

[brentonj]

How you can possibly get bored in Skyrim after 2 weeks and claim to love SWTOR after 2 weeks is beyond me.

 

SWTOR fanbois are cute.

 

Agreed. That comment disgusted me.

[ShaftyMcShaft]

How you can possibly get bored in Skyrim after 2 weeks and claim to love SWTOR after 2 weeks is beyond me.

 

SWTOR fanbois are cute.

 

Same thing with people who "hate WoW but love SWTOR" when SWTOR is exactly a WoW clone but in each facet of its gameplay, not implemented quite as well. It's like saying you hate mexican food but love Taco Bell. Taco Bell is just a cruddier version of mexican food.

[Droidlife]

Ya don't know if you got the memo, but in the 21st century, MMO's suck big time! They're a cash cow, a quick way to make some money, not an experience. And LOL at all the GW2 and ArcheAge comments as if they'll be the savior, yeah keep thinking that way, and watch both devs do something horribly, HORRIBLY wrong and screw everything up like every. other. developer. has done this generation. A good (Theme park + sandbox) mmo will never exist, it's just a dream, like world peace. So get it out of your little heads and accept the genre for what it is!

 

Some of you are just so naive and have your head up in the clouds it's nauseating, how many times have you been spurred and burned yet look so hopeful to the next newest thing showing hints of promise

 

Qft, yet still I have hope that someone will get it.

You dont have to go all in with one concept, you can have a mix of both.

I mean, games like farmville has to tell some devs that not EVERYTHING in an mmo needs to revolve around you being a combatant.

 

Chalk this disaster up to simply, incompetence. It's that simple. It is not about more development and more polish and fixing the combat. It's about BW not getting it at the core level, blinded by their "innovation" as they were. They must have seen the flaws fairly early on in development, but pushed on anyway hoping that the VO and cutscenes would carry the damned thing.

 

Yet, the friggin ship droid is still there. The companions go on and on and on with the same "immersive" and "funny" comments. Over and over.

 

This tells us that the leadership in the BW Austin camp does not know how mmo's work. What their function is.

 

I'm playing Rift atm. Slept on that game until now. The quality between this and Rift is just worlds apart. It boggles my mind how BW could throw this IP straight into the bin with all the strange descisions they made, given the astronomical budget and the long development.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Droidlife

[Cerion]

Haven't played Skyrim eh?

 

While I concede Skyrim has more life than most games....it's NOT an MMO. The design considerations are completely different. There exist ZERO MMOs with Skyrim's level of activity....ever wonder WHY that is? Ever consider that maybe devs would like to implement that, but for various reasons can't implement this in an MMO?

[Cerion]

Look at this video of ArcheAge's open world. That looks alive to me. Grass, trees, weather, clouds floating by, day and night cycles, herds of animals. Massive world with swimming and flying and no loading screens.

 

Now that's mostly a sandbox game, but so what? Take a world that looks that alive, and put in a Star Wars theme park. YES PLS.

 

When you see that...and then you see what BW put in SWTOR, you have to ask...did you guys even try? What did you do with that $300 mil?

 

I've been following ArcheAge for a while now, and will probably play it if it ever is released in the US (I've heard 2 years minimum). Until then, we'll have to wait. But from that video, you can see the same level of static NPCs that are present in all MMOs, the same 'grouping' of landscape MOBs roaming sort of aimlessly. I don't see anything that you can specifically point to that suggests a game more alive. Have they creatively edited it to show large masses of players doing things together? Yes. But you're not falling for that marketing hype, are you? Surely you see through the veil they're presenting you?

[AitConvarion]

So a guy goes to his mechanic, says, " My engine keeps making this weird noise..."

 

Mechanic grabs a phillips head screwdriver and punctures the man's eardrums.

 

Problem resolved.

 

Awesome!!!!!

[Cerion]

Universally the game has been criticized for the dull and lifeless planets.

 

By players and industry critics alike. They're absolutely game-killing.

 

As far as the server populations decreasing, just look it up. Better yet, go onto your Fleet...

 

 

Yeah, universally criticized in the echo chambers you frequent perhaps.

 

As for in-game, subjective analysis...that's a fool's errand. If the game has 1.5 million casual players who only play a few hours a week, then yeah maybe the one location has fewer players than another. That is not evidence of population decreasing. The MOST you can say is that players are playing less frequently. That is the only conclusion you can draw from this evidence.

 

And let me add that playing less frequently doesn't mean the game is dying either.

[AitConvarion]

I've been following ArcheAge for a while now, and will probably play it if it ever is released in the US (I've heard 2 years minimum). Until then, we'll have to wait. But from that video, you can see the same level of static NPCs that are present in all MMOs, the same 'grouping' of landscape MOBs roaming sort of aimlessly. I don't see anything that you can specifically point to that suggests a game more alive. Have they creatively edited it to show large masses of players doing things together? Yes. But you're not falling for that marketing hype, are you? Surely you see through the veil they're presenting you?

 

They are talking about you doing a repub quest that involves you killing some door npcs and getting into a empire base. They call it storming the base....well currently you walk up to the base kill 4 mobs(or walk up and there are 4 bodies on the ground) and you go inside... thats dead or static.

 

Now to make it more alive the developers set it so when you get close a squadron of fighters swoop in and blow and huge hole in the side of the base killing the 4 guards. But then 50 imps come running out blasters firing. Then a large group of republic commando decloak and begen duking it out and to get through you have to kill 3 key leading imps.

 

You tell me which is more alive.

[Logisitcs]

They are talking about you doing a repub quest that involves you killing some door npcs and getting into a empire base. They call it storming the base....well currently you walk up to the base kill 4 mobs(or walk up and there are 4 bodies on the ground) and you go inside... thats dead or static.

 

Now to make it more alive the developers set it so when you get close a squadron of fighters swoop in and blow and huge hole in the side of the base killing the 4 guards. But then 50 imps come running out blasters firing. Then a large group of republic commando decloak and begen duking it out and to get through you have to kill 3 key leading imps.

 

You tell me which is more alive.

 

You should link your source cause it looks like your talking out of your *** and making it up.

 

But in the case it is true, game with those graphics having 50+ NPCs running all over the place all at once is going to have great fps! Not to mention that's an open world so no doubt that's gonna affect other players not even close to the action! Skyrim had something like too, they're still patching to fix it

 

Stop exaggerating, we know ArcheAge is gonna be a sandbox and have zergs of features but right now you're speaking nonsense that no mmo can accomplish

[TotalKitty]

While I concede Skyrim has more life than most games....it's NOT an MMO. The design considerations are completely different. There exist ZERO MMOs with Skyrim's level of activity....ever wonder WHY that is? Ever consider that maybe devs would like to implement that, but for various reasons can't implement this in an MMO?

 

TORtanic is no MMO either when we look at the state of it. TORtanic is like a single-player RPG.. Just like Skyrim!

[otakuon]

You know, a lot of this has to do with how creative and imaginative the actual player is. How much we are able to break down our own walls of "non-immersion" and just go with it. I guess, being an RPer, this is something I do as a matter of course. I mean, when you take a step back, all we do in ANY electronic game is push pixels around on a screen which, quite frankly, is laughable in the grand scheme of things. But, for us video game players, we know how to make it seem more "real" and less abstract.

 

I dunno...I guess from having played so many MMOs for the past decade that I have gotten to the point where any world that has NPCs and wildlife and random conversations between NPCs is better then what we USED to have. I mean, I can remember when worlds would be completely lifeless except for a few static mobs unless there were other players present.

 

And remember, as a player in an MMO, part of creating a "life-like" world rests on our shoulders. Again, as an RPer, we do things like just come up to random people and talk to them "in character". I know that may seem "nerdy" to some of you, but hey, you are already playing a computer game which makes you "nerdy" by default. Might as well just go with it...

Edited February 16, 2012 by otakuon

[otakuon]

Because this one provides constructive criticism and it's just hate-filled drivel.

[Cerion]

TORtanic is no MMO either when we look at the state of it. TORtanic is like a single-player RPG.. Just like Skyrim!

 

 

You realize that's not even cute, right? I mean as in juvenile.

 

And you can pretend in your small mind that SWTOR isn't an MMO, but it is. Designing content for an MMO (other than by armchair software developers) is far different than creating it for a Single Player RPG.

 

And since you seem to lack an understanding of the difference: An MMO is a game in which you're connected online with other players; a single-player game, you are not. I hope that clears things up for you.

[ShaftyMcShaft]

You know, a lot of this has to do with how creative and imaginative the actual player is. How much we are able to break down our own walls of "non-immersion" and just go with it. I guess, being an RPer, this is something I do as a matter of course. I mean, when you take a step back, all we do in ANY electronic game is push pixels around on a screen which, quite frankly, is laughable in the grand scheme of things. But, for us video game players, we know how to make it seem more "real" and less abstract.

 

I dunno...I guess from having played so many MMOs for the past decade that I have gotten to the point where any world that has NPCs and wildlife and random conversations between NPCs is better then what we USED to have. I mean, I can remember when worlds would be completely lifeless except for a few static mobs unless there were other players present.

 

And remember, as a player in an MMO, part of creating a "life-like" world rests on our shoulders. Again, as an RPer, we do things like just come up to random people and talk to them "in character". I know that may seem "nerdy" to some of you, but hey, you are already playing a computer game which makes you "nerdy" by default. Might as well just go with it...

 

I get what you're saying, but SWTOR makes it really hard for you. Hard to RP Han and Greedo in the cantina when the game won't let you sit in a chair.

 

As much as I hate doing it...here's the WoW comparison.

 

Compare Stormwind or Orgrimmar to the Fleets in SWTOR. It might be too much to expect them to populate every town with NPCs and "dynamic" stuff, but these are the fleets. This is where you spend an awful lot of time. In Stormwind you've got houses and shops and inns and a castle and a cathedral, and a graveyard and lakes and people walking around selling stuff, or having conversations you can eavesdrop on. In fleet you've got...a big circle, with a bunch of desks. Uniform grey metal landscape...hard to tell which section you're in without looking at the map. And how convenient that every vendor of each type is all in a uniform row. They couldn't even at least give the capitols a bit of life and uniqueness?

 

Just saying, first time you stepped out of the airlock into the fleet, did you stop and say "Wow...THIS is Star Wars!!"

Edited February 16, 2012 by ShaftyMcShaft

[jonobiwan]

I agree there is some static feel but no more than any other mmo IMO. Could it be better? Maybe. Is it horrible and game breaking? Not IMO.

[Cerion]

Compare Stormwind or Orgrimmar to the Fleets in SWTOR. It might be too much to expect them to populate every town with NPCs and "dynamic" stuff, but these are the fleets. This is where you spend an awful lot of time. In Stormwind you've got houses and shops and inns and a castle and a cathedral, and a graveyard and lakes and people walking around selling stuff, or having conversations you can eavesdrop on. In fleet you've got...a big circle, with a bunch of desks. Uniform grey metal landscape...hard to tell which section you're in without looking at the map. And how convenient that every vendor of each type is all in a uniform row. They couldn't even at least give the capitols a bit of life and uniqueness?

 

I can only imagine the uproar had BW spread the vendors out, put them in different areas. People would have been pissed about how unorganized and inconvenient it is to find a particular vendor.

 

Now I realize this was just one illustrative example you've offered. My understanding is that BW had originally intended Coruscant and Drummond Kaas to be the capitals, but there were complaints in Beta, so that the stations were converted/added to be the hubs.

 

Which gets to my point that no matter what BW does, there are people determined to hate on it, for whatever reason.

 

Just saying, first time you stepped out of the airlock into the fleet, did you stop and say "Wow...THIS is Star Wars!!"

 

As a matter of fact, Yes. I did say Wow, this really feels like Star Wars. And I've been saying it ever since. BioWare understands the Star Wars paradigm/universe no matter what else you might say about them.

[Dranzen]

Universally the game has been criticized for the dull and lifeless planets.

 

By players and industry critics alike. They're absolutely game-killing.

 

As far as the server populations decreasing, just look it up. Better yet, go onto your Fleet...

 

 

Not game breaking.

 

And my server still has queues at peek times in the evening, so I have no idea what you're referring to with regards to a decreasing population. In fact most of the servers are either at Standard or Heavy at this moment.

[Baromega]

Anyone confused as to what OP means by a lifeless world, watch the Guild Wars 2 Divinity's Reach videos on youtube. The town is feels alive; NPCs are walking in and out of town, through the districts, having conversations with one another (a lot of which are voiced). Star Wars, with all of its story, fails to expand on any of it once you hit 50.

[otakuon]

I get what you're saying, but SWTOR makes it really hard for you. Hard to RP Han and Greedo in the cantina when the game won't let you sit in a chair.

 

As much as I hate doing it...here's the WoW comparison.

 

Compare Stormwind or Orgrimmar to the Fleets in SWTOR. It might be too much to expect them to populate every town with NPCs and "dynamic" stuff, but these are the fleets. This is where you spend an awful lot of time. In Stormwind you've got houses and shops and inns and a castle and a cathedral, and a graveyard and lakes and people walking around selling stuff, or having conversations you can eavesdrop on. In fleet you've got...a big circle, with a bunch of desks. Uniform grey metal landscape...hard to tell which section you're in without looking at the map. And how convenient that every vendor of each type is all in a uniform row. They couldn't even at least give the capitols a bit of life and uniqueness?

 

Just saying, first time you stepped out of the airlock into the fleet, did you stop and say "Wow...THIS is Star Wars!!"

 

But how much of that has to do with the setting? I mean, Star Wars is not a High Fantasy setting and is a Space Opera Setting, so the environment is going to be completely different. Despite this, the Capital worlds do have quite a bit of variation to them with different "districts". The fleet is really meant as a jumping off point for group gameplay (flashpoints and operations).

 

Which to me, is good, because, quite frankly, I am getting sick of the High Fantasy setting in video games. It's becoming TOO cliched...

Edited February 16, 2012 by otakuon

[ShaftyMcShaft]

But how much of that has to do with the setting? I mean, Star Wars is not a High Fantasy setting and is a Space Opera Setting, so the environment is going to be completely different.

 

Which to me, is good, because, quite frankly, I am getting sick of the High Fantasy setting in video games. It's becoming TOO cliched...

 

It has nothing to do with the setting. The main republic area, where you find your advanced class trainer and have the portals to launch flashpoints and get daily/weekly quests could have been Coruscant, teeming with busy citizens going about their days. Trainers could have been in interesting places, doing things. Like, in Fleet now you know the Biochem trainer is the biochem trainer because there's a plant on his desk. Couldn't he have been in an arboretum, or a hydroponics lab? Maybe the Jedi Knight trainer could have been in a dojo-like building with jedi sparing and training around him instead of a dude...standing.

 

See what I'm getting at? You have the entire Star Wars universe to draw on, and fleet is a circle with desks. It could be the Galactic DMV and you wouldn't notice a difference.

Edited February 16, 2012 by ShaftyMcShaft

[Mangzane]

the Galactic DMV

 

 

* Shudders*

[Lord_Itharius]

I can't believe I'm saying this, but SWTOR makes me think back fondly on WoW holiday events.

[otakuon]

It has nothing to do with the setting. The main republic area, where you find your advanced class trainer and have the portals to launch flashpoints and get daily/weekly quests could have been Coruscant, teeming with busy citizens going about their days. Trainers could have been in interesting places, doing things. Like, in Fleet now you know the Biochem trainer is the biochem trainer because there's a plant on his desk. Couldn't he have been in an arboretum, or a hydroponics lab? Maybe the Jedi Knight trainer could have been in a dojo-like building with jedi sparing and training around him instead of a dude...standing.

 

See what I'm getting at? You have the entire Star Wars universe to draw on, and fleet is a circle with desks. It could be the Galactic DMV and you wouldn't notice a difference.

 

But again (as I added to my earlier post), you have the Capital Planets for that sort of "environment". Plus, there are plenty of Jedi to be found training on Tython.

 

I think the way the fleet was set up was to allow quick and easy access to popular vendors with a minimal amount of "fluff". It was a choice of functionality over style.

 

Whether you agree with that or not is a matter of personal choice. For me, the fleet serves its purpose and I really wouldn't take much time to "smell the roses" even if it had any.

[Cerion]

Anyone confused as to what OP means by a lifeless world, watch the Guild Wars 2 Divinity's Reach videos on youtube. The town is feels alive; NPCs are walking in and out of town, through the districts, having conversations with one another (a lot of which are voiced). Star Wars, with all of its story, fails to expand on any of it once you hit 50.

 

Did watch it, and had a hard time getting passed the lame hand-held fan cam footage. Barring that, it looked HUGE, and lifeless. Even one of the commenters on youtube said for a city that large, the need more guards, lol.

 

I see some guys walking around. Again I point out the same things you find in SWTOR. Go to Belsavis. Guards walking around with droids. Fighters in dog fights flying over head on Balmorra. I don't see how either one is more alive than the other.

[otakuon]

Did watch it, and had a hard time getting passed the lame hand-held fan cam footage. Barring that, it looked HUGE, and lifeless. Even one of the commenters on youtube said for a city that large, the need more guards, lol.

 

I see some guys walking around. Again I point out the same things you find in SWTOR. Go to Belsavis. Guards walking around with droids. Fighters in dog fights flying over head on Balmorra. I don't see how either one is more alive than the other.

 

Yeap. I watched the video too. I don't really see GW's world as being anymore "Life like" then TOR...seems like the same thing we are used to with most MMOs.

 

Again, the only types of RPG that I see as being "life-like" in the same vein as the OP is referring to are ones like Skyrim, and I just don't see how that would translate to an MMO when the whole game environment is centered around a single player. There are performance considerations that must be taken into account with an MMO. And even in Skyrim, the "mobs" there stay put until you come into a certain "aggro" range.

Edited February 16, 2012 by otakuon