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Sage or Shadow - Which has the more gentle learning curve?


Stoofa

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I've played both a Jedi Guardian and Sith Juggernaut. I've also given Sentinal a try and it is still a character in progress.

I've also played a little tropper as well - so far I've enjoyed everything.

 

So I decided to roll a Consular on a more populated server to my usual characters. Thought I might get away from some of the more "undesireables" by playing an a RP server. I'm now close to the magic level where I get to choose an advanced class.

Now I know the difference between Sage and Shadow, one being more ranged, the toher melee.

 

My question is - which of these classes has the more gentle learning curve? I don't mind having to learn a new play style, that is all fine by me.

But I hate it when you take on a character that required four hands and "perfect" timing for you to be of any use.

 

I like the idea of Sage, but I'm worried that it's going to be a relatively more complicated class to play and that will mean I lose interest. Guess I'm looking for either confirmation that Sage certainly is a quite steep learning curve or reassurance that Sage really isn't that bad and someone new to the class will soon get the idea of things.

 

Ta

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I have two consulars, one is a level 50 Shadow as I wrote in my signature, my other is a Level 14 Sage. Melee wise, Shadow is better - as that class you will not have a lot of ranged capabilities, they do exist, but are in no way as good as the sage. Best thing about the Shadow when using ranged attacks was getting upheaval, its great being able to have a chance to throw an extra rock at an enemy, and also the Shadow is best used from stealth technique in my own modest experience. I tried the three techniques we get, I in the end I chose that one. Then again as a Shadow I am a DPS, opting down that road, but of course you can tank Shadows too.

 

I am only at level 14 so far with my Sage, but I got a friend who plays a sage too at level 50, and his Sage specialised mostly in healing. As a healer it will tell you that you have either the option of a Healer, or DPS I think, I haven't yet decided where to eventually settle my points in this but so far the points I got so far have been "balanced" between the different skill branches. So More of a hybrid spec so far.

 

Basically, Sage - best for healing - range/Melee, Shadow - Stealth attacks - melee/Range

Edited by dronepilot
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I personally play a Kinetic Shadow, whereas my girlfriend chose a Seer Sage.

 

When it comes to the Shadow, the first 20-30 levels are somewhat boring due to the heavy usage of Double Strike and low amount of other skills worth using (which you start using once you get talents such as Particle Acceleration and Harnessed Shadows). Overall I wouldn't say the class is terribly hard. When it comes to PvE lvling, you will not have many problems if you make sensible choices in terms of gearing and companions (ie take Tharan if stuff gets somewhat challenging), use DPS skills which make sense (Double Strike, Project, Telekinetic Throw and Spinning Strike mostly) and use CC and interrupts where needed. When it comes to PvP, playing the class succesfully will require more different skills to be used (this is quite typical of PvP though compared to lvling), including some extra CC (Stun and Spinning Kick), using defensive and offensive cooldowns at the right time, taunts, guard.

 

Overall I'd say if you are worried about lvling, you could probably get by using less than 10 buttons during combat. When you get into harder or more competitive content such as hard mode flashpoints, PvP, etc. you will need more varried skill usage. I believe I use around 25 keybinds with my 31/0/10 Kinetic Spec atm, as well as some I click when needed. (Guard, buffs, etc.)

 

 

On the other hand my girlfriend hasn't had any major issues with her Seer Sage either. They get decent AoE, seemingly pretty good and not overly difficult single target DPS, some heals which aren't too radically new design (Lots which are quite similar to WoW's Priest class) and a fairly easy to grasp resource system. She does fine in both PvE and PvP as well.

 

So either way, I'd say pick what you'd like, neither class is exactly rocket science to play in PvP, though the more skills you can use at the right time the better you will be of course. (But with the pace at which skills are introduced as well as their obvious uses, this isn't terribly problematic either really)

Edited by SWB-NL
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Sage is more straight in leaning curve. there are still few things like interrupt you have to master for bosses, but it seems you already know how to interrupt and control.

 

Shadow is 3 times harder to play properly, not to say you have 3 different playstyles. Unfortunately, game doesn't always demand all abilities and you will encounter unbeatable monsters/packs from time to time. It happens about 3 times per storyline in boss fights. They are doable, but you will have to stop by and think about possibilities you didn't use earlier.

You need more exact positioning, stuns combos, stealth management etc. I do enjoy all this possibilities, but sometimes they demand too much of player control.

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Unfortunately, game doesn't always demand all abilities and you will encounter unbeatable monsters/packs from time to time. It happens about 3 times per storyline in boss fights. They are doable, but you will have to stop by and think about possibilities you didn't use earlier.

You need more exact positioning, stuns combos, stealth management etc. I do enjoy all this possibilities, but sometimes they demand too much of player control.

 

Having finished the storyline, I ran into zero missions or even mob groups which gave any issues. (Aside from the ship at the end of Act 1 which is bugged and causes multiple groups to aggro on you at once) The most popular complaints are from (ommitting potential storyline spoilers):

  • The end of the Act 1 boss, who does a long cast spell which instant kills you if you do not interrupt. Having played MMOs and RPGs for a while, it's pretty common sense to realize that a long cast is probably powerful and thus should be interrupted. The fight is otherwise trivial.
  • Attis Station. Puts groups of 1 elite and 2 strong enemies against you. Sapping the strongest one is again an obvious choice, as you should basically have been doing since level 20. After that, interrupting dangerous casts and taking down strong mobs with a healer companion isn't really very difficult.

 

It just depends what you find difficult and challenging really. To me, using crowd control, interrupting casts, not AoEing close to crowd controlled mobs and the like are simple common sense when playing an MMO, and with those the storyline missions are pretty easy. For the most part Sages who neglect to use the same type of skills run into similar problems in the storyline missions btw.

 

That said, for those who have never played MMOs before, never seeing any real use in those CC and interrupt skills until they run into a wall isn't exactly optimal design, I agree on that part.

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I have a shadow. A Kinect Shadow to be more precise. Am only level 29 thus far and 10 of those points are in balance but so far this thing rocks and I don't even have the good stuff unlocked yet.

 

I also don't agree with shadow being boring from 10-30. I love playing with it. Love Kinect throw and Project and use them all the time along with like 6 other abilities. If you want a boring class go play a Bounty Hunter merc. That will put you to sleep.

 

I also think ( right now) it is a fairly easy class to play with. I started as a Infill shadow and died a fair few times. Since the change up to Kinect I have died maybe once due to my own stupidty.

 

How hard it gets when you get the good stuff Unlocked, I don't really know but upon reading lots of it it seems simple enough to do while taking a while to master. Which is perfect for me.

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As a sage, In PvE you can get by with minor kiting skills and a "turret" style of ranged dps or heals. You will be pressured to use a tank companion, and Elites could give you trouble if you don't keep up Force Armor on your Comp.

 

In PvP I'd say it's one of the more difficult classes to be effective at, as when you are pressured by a melee class that would other wise destroy you, you need to be able to kite near perfectly and not waste any of your utility. If your smart you can top damage every time, if your not then you're essentially a free kill.

 

Of course i leveled 1-50 as TK/Balance so that is all from a DPS perspective.

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Both classes are going to require some pretty heads up play to be effective at. I'd say melee has a higher learning curve than ranged in most cases because there is another layer of strategy involved in keeping at close range.

 

If you are looking for ease of play stick with that Trooper and go Commando.

 

Grav Round>Grav Round>Grav Round>Grav Round>High Impact Bolt>Grav Round>Grav Round>Full Auto>Grav Round>Grav Round>Grav Round>Grav Round>High Impact Bolt>Grav Round>Grav Round>Full Auto>Grav Round>Grav Round>Grav Round>Grav Round>High Impact Bolt>Grav Round>Grav Round>Full Auto>Grav Round>Grav Round>Grav Round>Grav Round>High Impact Bolt>Grav Round>Grav Round>Full Auto>Grav Round>Grav Round>Grav Round>Grav Round>High Impact Bolt>Grav Round>Grav Round>Full Auto>

 

etc.............

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Both classes are going to require some pretty heads up play to be effective at. I'd say melee has a higher learning curve than ranged in most cases because there is another layer of strategy involved in keeping at close range.

 

If you are looking for ease of play stick with that Trooper and go Commando.

 

Grav Round>Grav Round>Grav Round>Grav Round>High Impact Bolt>Grav Round>Grav Round>Full Auto>Grav Round>Grav Round>Grav Round>Grav Round>High Impact Bolt>Grav Round>Grav Round>Full Auto>Grav Round>Grav Round>Grav Round>Grav Round>High Impact Bolt>Grav Round>Grav Round>Full Auto>Grav Round>Grav Round>Grav Round>Grav Round>High Impact Bolt>Grav Round>Grav Round>Full Auto>Grav Round>Grav Round>Grav Round>Grav Round>High Impact Bolt>Grav Round>Grav Round>Full Auto>

 

etc.............

 

Sounds like Commandos are the Arcane mages of SWTOR... hehe Arcane mage, good times

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Thank you all for taking the time to post.

I'll admit I'm non the wiser at the moment - I see advantages of both classes.

I'm coming to the end of my time on Tython, so I'll make the decision later tonight - maybe I'll just flip a coin :-)

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As of this posting, I have both a 50 Kinetic Shadow (that was Kinetic while leveling) and a 31 Balance Sage (that has been Balance the entire time) so I can only speak to the learning curves of the given specs. I also can speak about the learning curves only as they refer to learning the play of the class, rather than the mechanics and optimal rotation/priorities since I knew those simply going into the classes by dint of lots of reading and posting on the forums.

 

The Shadow was, definitely, the slower leveler. Whereas the Sage really started or was given most of the tools needed to play the class effectively out of the box or soon after, the Shadow didn't take off until its 30s, and, while I didn't level as either Inf or Balance, I know that this is largely true for all Shadows: their strongest tools are largely in the form of talents that are relatively deep into their trees. Sages are also more forgiving with their resources since they have a pool of 500 to start with rather than 100: as you first start, you'll often feel pretty Force starved as a Shadow until you figure everything out; as a Sage, even when you're screwing up for efficiency, you've got a nice long cushion of Force to keep you wailing on your enemies so that you can figure everything out.

 

Overall, I'd have to say that Sage is the easier class to learn as you go. Shadows are designed in a pretty wonky manner and, unless you've gotten that design into your head from the beginning, it means you're gonna have a sharper learning curve than that of the Sage.

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Here's another vote for Shadow being more complex (higher learning curve) than Sage. Just the reality that Shadows are a melee/ranged hybrid class lends a level of complexity. You have a whole group of melee skills (4m range), a whole group of "shorter" ranged skills (10m range), and the a few "long range" skills (30m range). So there is a lot of positional adjustments during fights in order to make most effective use of these various ranges of skills.

 

But a Sage, it is much simpler: engage an enemy from as far away as possible and try to nuke them down before they can get to you. (Maybe a slight oversimplification...but really, not that far off.)

 

I have a Shadow that just dinged 50 and I love it, by far my favorite class in the game...but the learning curve isn't the easiest.

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I'd just like to once again thank everyone for their input.

I made it to the Republic Fleet last night and after spending an eternity hovering over the two choices, I clicked and I now have a Synthweaving..........

 

 

 

 

 

........Sage.

 

I've made my choice and now I'll stick with it :)

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I've got lvl50 sage and lvl42 shadow.

 

I'd say sage is easier (at least balance and seer).

If you ever mastered a ranged class it'll be a breeze.

There is not much procs to watch for, most of them are intuitive ('I bet it proced by now, using it now...'). Missing procs and stuff is quite forgiving.

 

In PvP playing a sage class requires smart positioning or those snipers will make hell of your life. You only throw small, barely visible rocks, so it'll take a while for those marauders to see you if you stick to some kind of pillar.

 

My infiltration shadow now:

PvE is more challenging. It requires interrupting, respositioning for backstabs, smart usage of CC. You can't faceroll quest mobs using 2 buttons while watching tv (as you can as tanking shadow and any kind of sage).

 

PvP requires smart chosing your fights and targets, etc.

You've got plenty of toys and need to learn when to use them. It's harder to 'feel' the cooldowns, as there are some long ones.

There are more things to keybind as shadow.

Edited by Tfikki
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I'm working on DPS Sage and Shadow now as alts to a 50 trooper and the Sage is far easier from 10-35 so far.

 

Overall it does depends on what you want....I was looking for a Light Saber class but on the Sage it's just a decoration. Part of the ease of leveling is a DPS Sage gets their ideal partner (tank) first.

 

My Trooper can heal/DPS like the sage, so I was leaning towards the Shadow but was struggling with my Infiltration DPS spec (to much healing after every pull and couldn't solo any 2 man heroics). Last night I switched to the Kinetic Spec and ran a 2 man heroic solo (with the lizard in both DPS and Tank Stances) and was amazed at how face roll simple it was. Sorry I don't have more than an hour with this spec at lvl 20 but in reading the forums this does seem to be the recommended early leveling spec of choice due to the slow maturation of the infiltration spec.

 

Sage DPS you're pressing more buttons and switching targets more often to keep your tank companion up through boss fights compared to my limited Kinetic (tank) shadow spec experience. I was familiar with Priest and Mage as my mains in WoW so the sage play style is a similar caster style and low learning curve if you have a similar experience.

 

PvP the sage was far easier to pop in play with a less than optimal spec and experience but the Kinetic Shadow Spec looks very appealing at later PvP levels and some very good guides in the Shadow Forum to help.

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I have a Seer Sage, coming from a Trooper. I find the Sage really easy to play, as long as you remember to interrupt when needed. I am only level 15 so far (just started it a couple of days ago), so I can't say whether it gets harder later on... but I can solo most Heroic quests, so I must be doing OK LOL.
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