Give me a legitimate reason to NOT have a LFD tool.

[Drasill]

They already said that if/when they implement a cross-server LFG for both PvE and PvP it would prioritize matching people on the same server. Maybe they could add a "same-server only" check box and the people that want that can wait an extra 1-2 hours like they seem to want.

[Varghjerta]

You Anti-LFD-People don't get it right? You are a minority and therefore you don't even have a choice in the matter. Your voice is worthless. EA doesn't hear you - they don't try or want to listen.

 

EA is hearing the majority of the playerbase though; the casuals. That's where the money is at. And the casuals want convenience, accessibility and an effective usage of their own time.

 

Therefore, from a financial standpoint (which is the only one that EA and therefore Bioware cares about) the implementation of a Cross-Server-LFG tool would be a good idea. And it will be implemented - whether you like it or not.

 

Actually the casually card have been totally destroyed these days

 

From being from a time constraint player (I think 5-10 hours been mentioned a week)

 

Casual is these days can be someone that can play 30 hours a week but never accomplish anything.

So that gives the answer what are you in that?

 

Myself i am a time constraint players doing at the tops 10 hours a week thanks to wife kids second education but i still doesnt like the x-server LFD

Edited February 13, 2012 by Varghjerta

[ispanolfw]

You Anti-LFD-People don't get it right? You are a minority and therefore you don't even have a choice in the matter. Your voice is worthless. EA doesn't hear you - they don't try or want to listen.

 

EA is hearing the majority of the playerbase though; the casuals. That's where the money is at. And the casuals want convenience, accessibility and an effective usage of their own time.

 

Therefore, from a financial standpoint (which is the only one that EA and therefore Bioware cares about) the implementation of a Cross-Server-LFG tool would be a good idea. And it will be implemented - whether you like it or not.

 

You just pointed out a major flaw in the world! Good job!

 

I play this game because I like it. I play this game because it hasn't, by my opinion, De-evolved to something mindlessly boring yet. I play ANY game because I like it, if it changes to where I do not, I stop. But that therein is the problem, games I can enjoy are vanishing due to people wanting stuff easier and wanting things now. As some call it, the entitlement generation. So you bet we're going to fight it. I cannot force myself to like a tool that does all the work for me, gives me no sense, however small it may or may not be, of accomplishment. You however are different, and that's fine, but not matter how many of you there are, or how little, saying the other side's voice is worthless is not going to win you any votes.

[Amiracle]

Granted I used an absurd example to make a point.

 

My point is obviously just because you click on something labelled 'Community' it doesn't mean there is a community here at all. To me community is really at the server level in a MMO. In my experience here, my server has zero community. There are no events, chat is non-existent, hell there isn't even any guild drama . That may be due to lower pop. I don't know.

 

Your experiences may differ, but mine are such that community in the MMO sense of the word has not developed on my server.

 

 

Community doesn't stop at the server just because you say so....lol

 

How would a cross server tool promote more events on your server?

 

How would a cross server tool promote people talking on your server?

 

Guild drama.....How do you know? Just because they aren't talking in general it doesn't exist?

 

And who wants guild drama?

[ImperialSun]

They already said that if/when they implement a cross-server LFG for both PvE and PvP it would prioritize matching people on the same server. Maybe they could add a "same-server only" check box and the people that want that can wait an extra 10-15 mins like they seem to want.

 

Fixed for you

 

You're welcome.

 

Driz

[PjPablo]

And? It still applies. You want a game you can enjoy your way, Random Joe wants a game he can enjoy his way, I want a game I can enjoy my way. If the "majority" gets their way, and it hinders the way I like to play, my enjoyment is lessened. Yes, this applies to both sides, but it seems one side tends to ignore it more than the other.

 

And before someone comes up with the bright idea to say there are other games you can go play. The lazy, we want it now generation, or honestly whatever you wish to call it, are making those games become few and far between, if any at all. Companies want money, and will appeal to the majority. My enjoyment does not change to fit what you enjoy, it doesn't work that way. So regardless, it will be punishing people. I can't force myself to enjoy, for example, clicking a button and being teleported to the dungeon. Just as much as you can't force yourself to enjoy looking for people and making your way to said dungeon.

 

But isn't that what people are told when they say the story is too much a focus and there should be more gameplay enhancements? Or when the 'hardcore' player says the game is too easy and there should be changes? Guess what they are told. They are typically told they are in the minority and/or some form of "This isn't the game for you".

 

You must understand how impossible it is for a game to be all things to all players. There are going to be aspects of a game that some do not like. A developer, in order to be as successful as they can, are going to focus on catering to the majority. That's just the way it is and the way it has to be if the game is to thrive. Now the majority can create tyranny, yes. But that is in situations where you have very little options such as the governing of a country. This a game. You have options. You can choose to play it or not based on the direction it is going. There is no 'tyranny' here.

[ferroz]

1. xsvr LFD dilutes server identity.

Unsupported claim.

 

Among other things, this presupposes that there is one; you haven't demonstrated that. Nor have you demonstrated how xserver lfg dilutes it.

 

Even if you show that your claim is true, you also need to show that this is an objectively bad thing.

 

2. xsvr LFD allows for more anonymity and increases peoples propensity for bad behaviour.

No, I'm already 100% anonymous once I log on. It can't make me more anonymous.

 

3. xsvr LFD will impact on those who do not wish to use it.

Unsupported claim.

 

Why is this an objectively bad thing?

 

If these people are a minority, and it hurts them but helps the majority, then it would be a subjectively bad thing for the people who don't like it, but an objectively good thing for the game.

 

If these people are the majority, then I'm skeptical of your claim that it would actually negatively impact them; especially the idea that it would harm them more than it would help the people who want to use it.

 

4.xsvr LFD is detrimental to community atmosphere.

Not an objective reason.

 

There you go, four real, valid concerns...

You didn't actually support any of them enough to make 1, let alone 4.

 

I'd love to see you do the same that doesnt just consist of "I want"

Why is more than that needed?

 

Server pops are the REAL issue you guys are experiencing, low server pops are not a result of LFD being ommitted.

xserver lfg is one of the posible fixes for the server pop issue. Edited February 13, 2012 by ferroz

[Vulgarr]

it's certainly easier than actually presenting a valid counterargument, eh?

thats the pro LFD motto.

 

i have said my opinion and posted my experiences with wows LFD system. bioware can do with it what they wish if they ever decide to check this thread. im still waiting to read a valid argument of why TOR needs one.

[PjPablo]

Community doesn't stop at the server just because you say so....lol

 

How would a cross server tool promote more events on your server?

 

How would a cross server tool promote people talking on your server?

 

Guild drama.....How do you know? Just because they aren't talking in general it doesn't exist?

 

And who wants guild drama?

 

I didn't say it did. Its just that servers vary so much it hard to have a homogenous community for the game as a whole.

 

X-server LFD isn't a panacea for the community issue. Never said it was. It is a tool for one thing. Getting quick groups and for that it does it's job well.

 

Community is created by people, not functionality. The reason I mention the lack of community is in response to the common phrase 'LFD ruins communities". In my case, even though LFD doesn't ruin communities in my experience, there is nothing to ruin.

 

As far as guild drama....see the little winky eye......

[ispanolfw]

Are you forced to use it? No you are not. You can continue to make groups the same way you always have.

 

Now, if you find that your 'friends' are no longer available because they are using the new tool doesn't that mean two things? 1) they weren't really 'friends' and 2) The tool works and people like it.

 

I don't buy the argument that isn't optional because everyone will use it so you will have to as well. All that tells me is it was a great addition since so many adopted it.

 

That's because you only look at it from one viewpoint. Yes it's optional, you don't have to use it. Yes finding a group without it can, usually, still be done. But the problem is that people who are in the middle. They don't mind doing it either way. But when the tool comes, it makes it much more difficult to do "manually" because the people using the tool are now gone from the pool. So many, if not all in the middle will merge to that side only since it's easier, not out of any necessarily like of it. and that drops the pool even more. So now the people who dislike it either have to use it, or spend FAR more time than before getting a group.

 

So it ruins enjoyment of the game for SOMEONE if it's implemented, but someone else if not. The problem here is that people have no real numbers on who the majority is, and even if we did, the majority does not make it right.

[Amiracle]

Unsupported claim.

 

Among other things, this presupposes that there is one; you haven't demonstrated that. Nor have you demonstrated how xserver lfg dilutes it.

 

Even if you show that your claim is true, you also need to show that this is an objectively bad thing.

 

No, I'm already 100% anonymous once I log on. It can't make me more anonymous.

 

Unsupported claim.

 

 

Not an objective reason.

 

You didn't actually support any of them enough to make 1, let alone 4.

 

Why is more than that needed?

 

xserver lfg is one of the posible fixes for the server pop issue.

 

 

Please elaborate on the last statement.

[Kaelshi]

1. xsvr LFD dilutes server identity.

2. xsvr LFD allows for more anonymity and increases peoples propensity for bad behaviour.

3. xsvr LFD will impact on those who do not wish to use it.

4.xsvr LFD is detrimental to community atmosphere.

 

There you go, four real, valid concerns...

 

I'd love to see you do the same that doesnt just consist of "I want" or "just because" or "server pops are low"...

 

Server pops are the REAL issue you guys are experiencing, low server pops are not a result of LFD being ommitted.

 

Driz

 

You can't prove any of this.

 

1. Dilutes server identity? Explain that before you suggest it's true

 

2. increases peoples propensity for bad behavior - you have absolutely no way to prove that people are acting any differently than they normally would, especially people on a different server you never met before - how do you know they dont ALWAYS act that way? You don't.

 

3. How? If you don't wish to use it - then don't use it. Are you suggesting it will be harder for you to find a group? You have no way to prove this, this is just something you think.

 

4. You could only say this if anything else you said was true - which you have no way to prove as true or even demonstrate to be true. This could only be from your own personal experience - and since proving 3 would mean you dont use LFD, you wouldnt even have the experience of 1/2.

 

Your whole post is concerns of yours - concerns that have no way of being proven.

 

The most you can say is that lots of people have experienced bad behavior from ppl on LFD - fine, that does not mean those people are acting like jerks because they are on an LFD run - you have no way to know if they would always be acting that way.

 

Your "Fears" of what will happen are not facts of any sort and are not likely to be a huge factor in whether an LFD is implemented or not.

[Introvertus]

1. xsvr LFD dilutes server identity.

2. xsvr LFD allows for more anonymity and increases peoples propensity for bad behaviour.

3. xsvr LFD will impact on those who do not wish to use it.

4.xsvr LFD is detrimental to community atmosphere.

 

There you go, four real, valid concerns...

 

I'd love to see you do the same that doesnt just consist of "I want" or "just because" or "server pops are low"...

 

Server pops are the REAL issue you guys are experiencing, low server pops are not a result of LFD being ommitted.

 

Driz

 

To be fair, most of these "valid concerns" are unprovable. The rest of them are problems that are created and fixed by LFG.

 

So yeah, I'll go through that point by point giving you an answer that doesnt just consist of "i want" or whatever.

 

1. Prove it.

2. Xserver LFG will allow for more anonymity. Same server LFG will not. Many people are campaigning for same server LFG, but that's irrelevant.

Please explain to me, what "bad behavior" are you on about? It's more anonymity to do what exactly?

 

AFAIK, this is probably what you mean. Next to each problem is a control method that should be put in place

1. Ninja looting - only allow class based needing. Yeah, okay, occasionally the same class will be adamant that he needs something more than you, but what exactly will you do if he's on your server, name and shame him because he wanted an item that you wanted? Get real please.

2. verbal griefing - see the ignore button? You dont have to listen to someone who insults you, but for the sake of doing a dungeon, it won't kill you to group with them if you can keep them ignored.

3. Leaving after joining. A problem created... and solved by LFG.

4. Not being social - so not being social is now classed as bad behaviour? Oh sorry, i didn't realise these forums were ran by the social police.

5. People acting stupid, mass pulling or just griefing in general - votekick them? Or leave and reque?

 

So it's anonymity to do one of the five above things without someone crying in global about how you ruined his run.

 

3. The absense of it is affecting those who wish for it to be in the game, and most of them are unsubbing, leading to more absense of players and more people who will be forever LFG. This is one of those points where those who want it win and those who don't lose. Sorry - but majority is majority, and at the end of the day, Bioware would rather have the subs from the majority.

 

4. It's not really is it, and the above 3 points give reasons for that. This isnt really a fourth reason, just a blind assertion.

 

Try again please.

[ImperialSun]

Unsupported claim.

 

Among other things, this presupposes that there is one; you haven't demonstrated that. Nor have you demonstrated how xserver lfg dilutes it.

 

Even if you show that your claim is true, you also need to show that this is an objectively bad thing.

 

No, I'm already 100% anonymous once I log on. It can't make me more anonymous.

 

Unsupported claim.

 

 

Not an objective reason.

 

You didn't actually support any of them enough to make 1, let alone 4.

 

Why is more than that needed?

 

xserver lfg is one of the posible fixes for the server pop issue.

 

So...true to form...you have just gone "No" "No it isnt" "No your wrong" etc etc without providing ANY evidence of your own to qualify what you are saying?

 

So what? Your opinion is just worth more than mine? Ok...

 

Like I said, you can provide no supported claims to promote the use of LFD other than "Your wrong" and "just because I say so"....

 

You have just proven that no reason or concern will ever be good enough...even when it is.

 

I cannot provide evidence to support my claims just you cannot...so we are back to "just because I want it and am better than you" or "my anecedotes trump your anecdotes"...

 

Good one...you certainly convinced me

 

Driz

 

Driz

[ferroz]

im still waiting to read a valid argument of why TOR needs one.

In general, that's a strawman argument. I'm pretty sure that most folks are saying that they want one, not that it's needed.

 

I'll leave it up to one of the folks who actually thinks it's needed to answer.

[ImperialSun]

You can't prove any of this.

 

1. Dilutes server identity? Explain that before you suggest it's true

 

2. increases peoples propensity for bad behavior - you have absolutely no way to prove that people are acting any differently than they normally would, especially people on a different server you never met before - how do you know they dont ALWAYS act that way? You don't.

 

3. How? If you don't wish to use it - then don't use it. Are you suggesting it will be harder for you to find a group? You have no way to prove this, this is just something you think.

 

4. You could only say this if anything else you said was true - which you have no way to prove as true or even demonstrate to be true. This could only be from your own personal experience - and since proving 3 would mean you dont use LFD, you wouldnt even have the experience of 1/2.

 

Your whole post is concerns of yours - concerns that have no way of being proven.

 

The most you can say is that lots of people have experienced bad behavior from ppl on LFD - fine, that does not mean those people are acting like jerks because they are on an LFD run - you have no way to know if they would always be acting that way.

 

Your "Fears" of what will happen are not facts of any sort and are not likely to be a huge factor in whether an LFD is implemented or not.

 

You can't substantiate the contrary either can you?

 

Didnt think so...

 

Driz

[ispanolfw]

But isn't that what people are told when they say the story is too much a focus and there should be more gameplay enhancements? Or when the 'hardcore' player says the game is too easy and there should be changes? Guess what they are told. They are typically told they are in the minority and/or some form of "This isn't the game for you".

 

You must understand how impossible it is for a game to be all things to all players. There are going to be aspects of a game that some do not like. A developer, in order to be as successful as they can, are going to focus on catering to the majority. That's just the way it is and the way it has to be if the game is to thrive. Now the majority can create tyranny, yes. But that is in situations where you have very little options such as the governing of a country. This a game. You have options. You can choose to play it or not based on the direction it is going. There is no 'tyranny' here.

 

Except it is in a way. I stated how too. The games I find enjoyable are dwindling due to that "majority" I'm not allowed to have fun the way I like to? I find a game I like and people come in and want it changed, the company sees this as an opportunity to score money and changes it? How can you not see this?

 

I play a game, I ask for NO changes aside from bug fixes and possibly balance tweaks depending on the type of game. I don't go in and whine that this game needs something that that other game has, or that I don't like doing it this way, change it. I play it for what it is. I play FFXIV because I like it more than I dislike it. I play SWTOR because I like it as it is, more than I dislike it as well. I play EVE online because I love the concept and it's the game I can always go back to... but even that seems to be changing. All of these games are actually being, what I call, "dumbed down" As it stands I still like them more than not, but if that changes I lose yet another game I can play for enjoyment.

[PjPablo]

So now the people who dislike it either have to use it, or spend FAR more time than before getting a group.

 

That just tells me the tool was needed and successful due to how many adopted its use. If the fear is that it will be 'too popular' doesn't that alone tell you something?

[Pythoris]

Don't we already have a LFD tool in the game?

 

I remember seeing one...

[Amiracle]

I didn't say it did. Its just that servers vary so much it hard to have a homogenous community for the game as a whole.

 

X-server LFD isn't a panacea for the community issue. Never said it was. It is a tool for one thing. Getting quick groups and for that it does it's job well.

 

Community is created by people, not functionality. The reason I mention the lack of community is in response to the common phrase 'LFD ruins communities". In my case, even though LFD doesn't ruin communities in my experience, there is nothing to ruin.

 

As far as guild drama....see the little winky eye......

 

 

"To me community is really at the server level in a MMO"

 

Ya, you didn't post that.

[ImperialSun]

To be fair, most of these "valid concerns" are unprovable. The rest of them are problems that are created and fixed by LFG.

 

So yeah, I'll go through that point by point giving you an answer that doesnt just consist of "i want" or whatever.

 

1. Prove it.

2. Xserver LFG will allow for more anonymity. Same server LFG will not. Many people are campaigning for same server LFG, but that's irrelevant.

Please explain to me, what "bad behavior" are you on about? It's more anonymity to do what exactly?

 

AFAIK, this is probably what you mean. Next to each problem is a control method that should be put in place

1. Ninja looting - only allow class based needing. Yeah, okay, occasionally the same class will be adamant that he needs something more than you, but what exactly will you do if he's on your server, name and shame him because he wanted an item that you wanted? Get real please.

2. verbal griefing - see the ignore button? You dont have to listen to someone who insults you, but for the sake of doing a dungeon, it won't kill you to group with them if you can keep them ignored.

3. Leaving after joining. A problem created... and solved by LFG.

4. Not being social - so not being social is now classed as bad behaviour? Oh sorry, i didn't realise these forums were ran by the social police.

5. People acting stupid, mass pulling or just griefing in general - votekick them? Or leave and reque?

 

So it's anonymity to do one of the five above things without someone crying in global about how you ruined his run.

 

3. The absense of it is affecting those who wish for it to be in the game, and most of them are unsubbing, leading to more absense of players and more people who will be forever LFG. This is one of those points where those who want it win and those who don't lose. Sorry - but majority is majority, and at the end of the day, Bioware would rather have the subs from the majority.

 

4. It's not really is it, and the above 3 points give reasons for that. This isnt really a fourth reason, just a blind assertion.

 

Try again please.

 

Prove they are not the case? Prove they have not manifested themselves in other games that have a xsvr LFD....

 

Driz

[EvilTrollGuy]

thats the pro LFD motto.

 

i have said my opinion and posted my experiences with wows LFD system. bioware can do with it what they wish if they ever decide to check this thread. im still waiting to read a valid argument of why TOR needs one.

 

Depends. Is it easy for BW to merge servers? - and not just merging, but they'd also have to constantly be up-to-date with the server population in every region.

 

Then there's also the argument that some people plays at different hours of the day. Even high populated servers will be light on players on various times of the day. Those peple, however, are in the minority.

[PjPablo]

"To me community is really at the server level in a MMO"

 

Ya, you didn't post that.

 

It is. Can there be a general community game wide? Kinda.

 

If that is all you can reply to in my response then I think that proves something. Thanks.

[Pwnberries]

lfd tool hurts the community as a whole. It removes reputation and accountability... once that's gone out the window you get people trolling and griefing people on purpose in LFD groups.

 

It happened in WoW and ruined realm communities. If it happens here it will have the same effect.

 

There are tons of bugs and other things that coders could be working on.

 

Find some friends to play with to progress through pve content. If you cant make any in game and dont have any IRL maybe you should be asking yourselves why ... and stop posting this nonsense here.

 

Have a great day!

[Kaelshi]

Prove they are not the case? Prove they have not manifested themselves in other games that have a xsvr LFD....

 

Driz

 

 

this is the dumbest post so far in this thread by you.

 

You're complaining about all the problems that could come from it and thats why it should not be implemented but instead of having any basis for your claims other than your personal experiences which don't even prove your specific claims, he is suppose to prove that your claims are untrue?

 

That is so stupid man, really....reallllly dumb.