Vulgarr Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 No, the guy who ninja'd the ony mount ran pug raids pretty much every night, and he never had any significant problem getting people to join him. Same goes for the other couple of people who abused masterlooter to nab items. They just ran their own raids, and joined guilds, with no problems. There were some guys on my server in EQ were scum, but they stayed in some of the top guilds on the server. Both Comps and EV had some real pieces of work (I had them train me, and KS a named on a number of occasions); they were the top 2 guilds on the server until Sol Invictus stole the march on them and beat them into Time during PoP; they stayed in the top 3 guilds until right before I left the game (where EV broke back up into the old elitists and vagrants as separate guilds). No, there isn't any of that. No, I've seen WAY too many people run character assassination attempts on people to trust anyone spamming general chat about how X did Y terrible deed.if it didnt do any good, then why on earth would people attempt to assassinate someones character? you proved my argument for me. and a bogus assassination attempt is easy to figure out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcerb Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 has community been mentioned? Yes, by you and has countless arguments against that been made? yes. how about you catch up on the thread first eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferroz Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Lack of LFD tools means everyone will stand on the fleet and level 10 to 50 in one spot.. enough said.fixed that for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinge Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 SWTOR is too far gone to worry about community, so LFD is the logical next step down the road it set out along some time ago. Personally I think it's a shame and probably won't be playing much longer as a result, but I can't really blame the devs for doing it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcerb Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) It's simple: would you rather do the same endgame content over and over with random strangers or with friends who will chat and joke around? Just like your town has people you would never associate with it also has people who's company you genuinely enjoy and who make average experiences more fun. The idea of community is that the time you spend in MMOland has the same social aspects as roaming the real world with friends. That's what a guild is for. Do you start up conversation's at bus stops? take down phone numbers there? Edited February 13, 2012 by darkcerb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senatsu Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 that's a reason for you to not use one, not a reason for it not to be added to the game. Let's say 70% of the server will use it at launch. 30% of them knows exactly what it is, 20% wanted to just try out this new and strange feature, 20% used it because most of their friends are in the 50%. That ups the numbers to 70%, leaving the people against LFD with a MASSIVELY reduced server playerbase. What other option do they have besides jumping into the bandwagon and do it themselves? They can refuse to use it, and be left in the mud, or they can join with the other people and stay on the same gear level (please don't think this is exclusively about gear acquisition). Now you have 100% of the playerbase using it. I really hope you understand why it's not optional. It's an indirectly forced system, you can't refute that in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgarr Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Yes, by you and has countless arguments against that been made? yes. how about you catch up on the thread first eh?i wouldnt say 3 or 4 countless. and those 3 or 4 wasnt even very good arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plexima Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 LFD tools means everyone will stand on the fleet and level 10 to 50 in one spot.. enough said. As if that's not happening right now already. The only thing that will change with a LFD tool is the quality of life for people unguilded, or in small/inactive guilds. The argument for not having a LFD tool is equal to arguing against 3rd party addons...in reality, the only effect they bring to the community is improving player quality of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretiq Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Today, I took to the streets. I went on a server stated as Low (being especially low during that time of day since most people were working), but I had to see for myself how horrible you guys must have it. Your arguments are complete, utter, illogically, blatantly obvious filled with bollocks, so much so I can still feel some after shock from discovering that you guys are talking ******** about the time it takes to find a group. I went on the fleet, trying to find a group for Hammer Station and guess what? It took me 3 minutes of whispering 7 people to get a group ready. 3. Freaking. Minutes. If you have a hard time finding groups on your server: go to the who list, find people of equal level (or whatever is necessary to do the FP) and whisper them. Ask them kindly, like: "Hey. Are you a tank, if so, would you be interested in doing Hammer Station?" "Hey. My group needs a healer for Hammer Station, do you wish to come?" "Hey. I have a group going for Hammer Station, wanna come and DPS?" I got 1 tank, 2 healers and 1 DPS that turned me down, and they were polite about it. One of them even went: "Sorry, I'm about to head out now. But, I can add you to my friends list and we can team up when I get back? Shouldn't take more than 3-4 hours until I'm home again :)" Going around spamming "/1 LFG for Hammer Station, I'm DPS", without putting any more effort into it will of course leaving you to wait a loooong time. Put some time into it, and how much time? 3. Freaking. Minutes. Stop being lazy folks. That is all. I'm ashamed that we have the same avatar right now. Leave Shae alone. Why on earth would I want to talk to random people and look through a /who list when a fully automated grouping system can do just that for me? In a faster and more convenient manner moreso? I can just go to whatever planet I'm leveling on at that time, do my quests, craft, chat or whatever. All while I'm in the queue. How is that bad? Please stop using electricity. Stop using your telephone. Stop using your car. Stop using everything that saves you time - I seriously don't care. Go ahead and live in the stone age. But don't force others to do the same thing just because you like doing stuff your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iceperson Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Yes, by you and has countless arguments against that been made? yes. how about you catch up on the thread first eh? sorry, i'm choosing to ignore those responses just like the people who ignore the community argument against LFD. so, let's talk about community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcerb Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Now you have 100% of the playerbase using it. I really hope you understand why it's not optional. It's an indirectly forced system, you can't refute that in any way. So the majority using a feature means it's unpopular? what about the current system why isn't it used? is it because people don't want to? Or because a wizard did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niyenna Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 That's what a guild is for. And how does your guild grow? Do you start up conversation's at bus stops? take down phone numbers there? No I do that at the bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgarr Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 That's what a guild is for. Do you start up conversation's at bus stops? take down phone numbers there?i only do when me and the hobos have to take down a few dragons. otherwise i ninja thier old crow and half smoked gpcs for my companion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcerb Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 sorry, i'm choosing to ignore those responses just like the people who ignore the community argument against LFD. so, let's talk about community. Go ahead, talk define community on a server wide basis and why swtor currently has it, then explain why a lfg system would destroy it. Just saying "community" is not an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthKhaos Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Logically if you don't need the tool now you have a sound method of getting groups that you're happy with. If that method is endangered with a cross server tool then it is only because people prefer to use it over your method. So your argument becomes "Have fun my way or the high way, there can be no optional lfg tool" And if it surprises you that people argue against that. Then I don't know what to tell you. Keeping in mind that my belief and indeed experience of community in mmo's is found and developed within guilds if at all. I swore I explained this already. Let me quote myself and save you the trouble of looking for it. A fully automated cross server LFG tool that acts just like WoW will not be used because it is better. It'll be used because it's the path of least resistance. Because no matter how much gamers claim they want better, how much they claim they want challenge, how much they claim they are "hardcore" they'll always look for the cheat, exploit and the easy way out. Take Ilum for instance. They will kill trade and look for the easiest way to get valor then complain that they're bored. that World PvP is dead, that there's no challenge. Yet they avoid it like the plague. What I find interesting is you all claim you want to find parties easier and yet you wish not to entertain a server only option. Every game is different. Some people come here because they're bored or disgruntled about how things were done in another game. So why do you expect a server only LFG to fail off the bat? Let me ask this. If a server only LFG Tool allows everyone to find parties easier EVEN on low population server/facrions will that be cool with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcerb Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 i only do when me and the hobos have to take down a few dragons. otherwise i ninja thier old crow and half smoked gpcs for my companion. Did you not see his comparison to the real world, is this one of those your side can do it but pro-lfg isn't allowed, honestly you need to keep me up to date on your forum rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbanite Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) x-realm LFD's are a great way to get gear.. Just switch it on and wait.. Then need on everything for the run. They are a crap way to get to know anyone on your server They are great for reducing the social contact you may have with others and building relationships. They are good at turning an MMO into a lobby game Edited February 13, 2012 by corbanite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocNessMonster Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 LFD tools means everyone will stand on the fleet and level 10 to 50 in one spot.. enough said. Anyone who likes to PVP pretty much already does do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcerb Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Let me ask this. If a server only LFG Tool allows everyone to find parties easier EVEN on low population server/facrions will that be cool with you? Because I don't agree that cross server lfg is the end times incarnate and believe = a larger pool of players = more groups. I'm not very good at math but that seems sound to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senatsu Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) I'm ashamed that we have the same avatar right now. Leave Shae alone. Why on earth would I want to talk to random people and look through a /who list when a fully automated grouping system can do just that for me? In a faster and more convenient manner moreso? I can just go to whatever planet I'm leveling on at that time, do my quests, craft, chat or whatever. All while I'm in the queue. How is that bad? Please stop using electricity. Stop using your telephone. Stop using your car. Stop using everything that saves you time - I seriously don't care. Go ahead and live in the stone age. But don't force others to do the same thing just because you like doing stuff your way. I have no idea who Shae is, but I just picked it because it looked decent. Why do you want to sit in a queue from anywhere between 10 seconds and 1 hour, instead of spending a few minutes sending out a whisper every now and then to get people for the group? You don't need to talk at all besides those whispers and maybe a little "Hai thar" when they enter the group. That's it. Since you guys appear to be very anti-social I added that "You don't need to talk" bit just for you. You're welcome. Edited February 13, 2012 by Senatsu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulgarr Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Go ahead, talk define community on a server wide basis and why swtor currently has it, then explain why a lfg system would destroy it. Just saying "community" is not an argument. let me define a word that many do not understand because other games have sucked it completely out of their game and people have forgotten the meaning: com·mu·ni·ty [kuh-myoo-ni-tee] noun, plural -ties. 1. a social group of any size whose members reside in a specific locality, share government, and often have a common cultural and historical heritage. 2. a locality inhabited by such a group. 3. a social, religious, occupational, or other group sharing common characteristics or interests and perceived or perceiving itself as distinct in some respect from the larger society within which it exists (usually preceded by the ): the business community; the community of scholars. 4. a group of associated nations sharing common interests or a common heritage: the community of Western Europe. Back before the LFD finder came into existence, playing MMO's required you to interact with people on your home server. To actually do anything (other than solo quest) you had to establish a rapport (connection) with individuals in your COMMUNITY (this may be hard to understand still for some of you, but the community i refer to here is YOUR SERVER COMMUNITY), you had to join a guild or make a large number of friends and add them to your friends list. For those of us that work long hours and have limited game time we had to find a guild and friends that were active during our normal play times. Did this take effort? Yes. Was it impossible to find people that played the same time as me? No. Did I find this mythical guild and have friends on my friends list that played the same times as me? Yes. Did it take work? Absolutely. Once we established a camaraderie in game with like minded people from our server community we filled our guilds and friends lists so we could do the things we wanted to do when we wanted to do them with people we trusted. Sometimes though, we needed to invite strangers into our groups, or we had to just form a party completely from trade chat filled with people you were not familiar with. If we came across a stranger that wasn't performing up to standards we would do everything in our power to help them play better and, if time permitted, helped them get the gear they needed to perform better and give constructive criticism. This garnered more in game friends. When we met someone that was a griefer we would inform the server community through trade/global/general chat of the offenders name and what the offender did to warrant an ignore. This, in turn, would make it harder for griefers to get groups and they would end up having to play nice or switch servers. Once you said "so-and-so ninja looted such-and-such" in chat, most people would go ahead and /ignore that person to prevent having to suffer their griefing in future groups. This is the community we speak of. One in which strangers help other strangers while making a friend at the same time. To become a close knit community. With the implementation of the LFD cross server tool we have the following to look forward to: Obnoxious criticism: Tank enters group, tells healer "you really suck dude. i refuse to pull until you leave the group". at which time the healer of course refuses and the group falls apart. back in que for another 20 minutes for the dps while the griefer tank gets insta ques to continue griefing. Excessive griefing: Heavy Armor wearer ninjas every piece of armor by rolling need including cloth, people training their party members, and people just being all around rude and obnoxious with ignorant statements about people in the group. Vote to kick exploits: In group with 3 guild mates, do a whole dungeon up to the last boss, but their guildy needs the same item as you off the last boss. You get booted and they invite their guildy, or they just constantly boot the 4th player for lulz and cause that 4th player another 20 minute wait on another que. There will be many people that will que and get a group and expect to be carried because either their gear doesnt meet the requirements, underskilled, they don't know the fights or just lazy and expect the group to carry them. There will be no repercussions for peoples actions, so the same rudeness we see from the safety of anonymous internet trolls will run rampant in the game. /ignore will mean nothing, and our only real power to police our own community will be taken away. Because they have that LFD button and can group anytime they want with people they will never see again. It will also make it almost impossible to meet new people on your home server, because no one will want to pug a group on your home server because why do that when all you have do is click a button and wait. This is but a few things i experienced in wow with LFD. TL/DR: this is exactly what im talking about. you are the people that LFD is for, because its too hard to put a bit of effort into something simple like reading a post or forming a group. i posted this yesterday but some people apparently havent seen it due to it being buried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mitralon Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I would say a good start would be to add this functionality for max level players as they currently have very little to do. It hold more interest in the higher level game experience for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gridge Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 It's not necessary at all. I've never had a problem finding a group in this game, or any other that I've played (and I've played numerous MMO's). It shouldn't be a problem at all to use chat, unless one is completely lacking in social skills (or has such a stupid character name that no one wants to be seen with you). Not everything needs to be handed to a player on a silver platter. Do a little work yourself. We don't need every aspect of a game continually dumbed-down due to whiners and the unbelievably lazy. If not having a LFD tool is enough to make a person leave then good-riddance, you were destined to return to WoW anyway and the devs shouldn't waste time trying to please you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niyenna Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Because I don't agree that cross server lfg is the end times incarnate and believe = a larger pool of players = more groups. I'm not very good at math but that seems sound to me. By that logic they should remove tanking and healing from the game since their necessity causes fewer groups to be formed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerrard_Ennui Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 There is no legitimate reason to not have an LFG system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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