Dyvim Posted January 14, 2012 Author Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) ... My biggest qualm is that I wish these changes were here from the beggining, then I could be more used to them, it's so easy to fall in love with throwing rocks, even if some of the animations don't make sense. It's kind of like someone telling you that you cant't keep your childhoos pet because he costs too much money ;( I got into beta last summer. From the beginning of that time, there was post after post in the beta boards about project and throw and the disparity in the coolness factor between the sage and sorcerer ani's. Along with the other issues, such as the project delay, the lack of jedi feel, etc. The beta community REALLY made an effort to get these changed, and every build there were multiple threads on it. As soon as we were allowed to take screenshots and post them, I made a version of this thread late in beta, as well. There were ALOT of us that really had hoped BW would change these before launch. There was one change, chunk a clunker used to pull up the same object magically every time...it was fondly known as the septic tank of doom. So they changed it to pulling up a random item from a set list of items. TBH I preferred the septic tank, since the random items were even more distracting/annoying to me as thye popped up into the middle of my field of vision on screen and then spun around. And the random items were still ignorant of the environment. But even if that was added, Jedi skills are not and should not be based around throwing junk, IMO. Edited January 14, 2012 by Dyvim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdragonnn Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 effects are nice but how about they fix they damage instead !! funny sith iquis hits for 4k with lighntning and ticks for 800+ with force light but ours hit for 800-1200 nad ticks for 100-300 how about ballanceing out this stuff instead of worrying about how it looks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinnate Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Get off your high horse about being a real pvper. I bet you are not very good and that people who are far better players than you will ever be would like to see this change. u must be an oversensitive 10 year old that can't read, i never said dont make the changes, infact i agreed with the project lag need to be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatguypa Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 This is too important to fall off the front page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediRaffa Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Hey great read and nicely presented. The funny thing is I roled a Jedi Consular and I find myself wanting to use lightsaber attacks more than project/throw which is completely arse backwards to Jedi Knight class. After reading this thread, I was thinking, oh man, maybe I botched up my class selection by making my consular the tank (which is what I was intending). But then I realized after leveling and getting used to the abilities, I started to enjoy proj/throw more and (sorry to make this comparison) but reminded me and felt comfortably similiar to Pally Tanking in WoW. I used to be a great pally tank and I feel like I already got the hang of tanking with my consular. As for the ani's, I really dont mind them all that much. sure they could use more improving but at first glance, I dont think they are that terrible. Ofcourse, I have not experienced the cool ani's of these other classes yet as I havent leveled a toon yet. One final point I thought was worth mentioning. As you level and abilities increase in level, would it be that difficult to also adjust the ani to its level? So a level 1 project looks (ooooo) then level 2 looks like (ahhhhh) then leve 5 looks like (OMG that hurt!) Is that type of ani progression possible and would everyone think thats a good idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thatguypa Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Hey great read and nicely presented. The funny thing is I roled a Jedi Consular and I find myself wanting to use lightsaber attacks more than project/throw which is completely arse backwards to Jedi Knight class. After reading this thread, I was thinking, oh man, maybe I botched up my class selection by making my consular the tank (which is what I was intending). But then I realized after leveling and getting used to the abilities, I started to enjoy proj/throw more and (sorry to make this comparison) but reminded me and felt comfortably similiar to Pally Tanking in WoW. I used to be a great pally tank and I feel like I already got the hang of tanking with my consular. As for the ani's, I really dont mind them all that much. sure they could use more improving but at first glance, I dont think they are that terrible. Ofcourse, I have not experienced the cool ani's of these other classes yet as I havent leveled a toon yet. One final point I thought was worth mentioning. As you level and abilities increase in level, would it be that difficult to also adjust the ani to its level? So a level 1 project looks (ooooo) then level 2 looks like (ahhhhh) then leve 5 looks like (OMG that hurt!) Is that type of ani progression possible and would everyone think thats a good idea? For a second I thought I was on the Sage forums and you were talking about tanking with a sage. But honestly I think that simply changing the animations to more of "force energy" type skills would be much better overall. Easier for BW, which makes it more likely, is the main thing. Plus many of the things you pull out of the ground for Project make no sense in many environments. On a ship? Pull out a rock or a clay goblet. In a rocky canyon or icy area? Pull out a bunch of mechanical parts. It is just a bad skill all around. And Telekinetic Throw. I think even the people at BW must look at that skill and know that they screwed up when comparing it to lightning. Again, stick with the theme the OP suggested and make it a channeled wave of force energy. They could even throw in a cool feature where the color changes based on LS/DS alignment (this could, and should, be done for lightning too). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNightfall Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I agree that the animations need work and both look and feel clunky. Why do you feel that throwing an object is more dark side than cutting someone down with a lightsaber? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitexxsaber Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Project I actually like the animations but throw is pretty underwhelming , glitchy, and not at all fun to look at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utahtio Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Signed!! 100% agree, great suggestions! Fix the lagged animations, it really can hinder our combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utahtio Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) *Double Post* Edited January 18, 2012 by Utahtio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuadDamage Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 My name is QuadDamage, and I endorse this message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dyvim Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 I agree that the animations need work and both look and feel clunky. Why do you feel that throwing an object is more dark side than cutting someone down with a lightsaber? Well, I guess its an opinion thing, but I can give two quick examples...Yoda of course says that the jedi use the force for knowledge and defense. Two, very few jedi throw anything in the movies, whereas every single sith does...typically jedi absorb and/or deflect/reflect. Its like the difference between hard martial arts (tae kwon do, etc.) where you are aggressively throwing punches and kicks, versus some of the soft martial arts (aikido, etc.) where you take the aggressors energy and redirect it, using it against him. Its a philosophy. And truly, the difference between light and dark force users is all about philosophy. Remember in AotC when Yoda confronts Dooku. The first thing Dooku does is throw two different objects at Yoda, then drop the ceiling on him. Yoda deflects the objects, then tells Dooku something like "I sense the darkside in you"...Throwing objects is a classic darkside trait, ever since we saw Vader do it on Bespin. It smacks of anger and a temper tantrum, throwing things at people. But different people see it different ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seven_deadlies Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Just figured I'd pop this up again. I'm pretty sure they've been referred to already, but it's worth repeating. ( ) Her first hit seems sustained and slows him down. That to me looks like channeling TK Throw. Her second hit is just about hurting him. That to me looks like Project. Now... Make me look like that in game, and I'll be happy! =) Edited January 18, 2012 by seven_deadlies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hettiran Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I agree, I haven't liked any of the Consular animations. Saber strike is hit with stick, double strike is hit with stick twice, TK Throw is hit with lots of pebbles, and Project is hit with rock. Force wave, in comparison, is a good animation. I have to get my new skills before I can comment on any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phyroxis Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Looks cool, I like the idea and would love to see it implemented. Highly doubt they'll do it though, even though the anis already exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anasazzi Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 up this message Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StainedLotus Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I completely agree and here is my idea for project : http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=Pjffq5v2CHM. Go to 44 secs and Vader does a move called force bullet. This is what project should look like only blue. Also watch the entire video just to see Vader do ****** things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincyre Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I have to agree with the OP 100% here. I love playing my inf. shadow, but something about chucking rocks around just doesn't -feel- like I'm using the force. I mean, duh, I AM using it to throw a rock, but...I have to rely on junk lying around, when we could easily use a staple force move, force push/blast? Project is just awkward and fugly, as is telekinetic throw. C'mon devs, throw us bluesides a bone here for once? Err, I mean... *waves hand* You will give us more animation options for project and telekinetic throw, as the OP suggested. Give us force blasts, not debris chuckin'! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noshift Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 another upvote here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoDiE Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) Great post OP. Support this as you are not in effect asking for a buff. Edited January 19, 2012 by BoDiE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vincyre Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 bump for great justice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drengir Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I agree that some work has to be done with these! I dont mind project per say, I actually kinda like how we tear stuff up from the ground and throws it at them. And it being a darker side thing isn't really a problem since you can be either dark side or light side in swtor. With your logic they need to change the SI's ani's because some SI's might be playing as a light side character But, the big But! Is that I so agree on the whole telekinetic throw. I think it is just sad that SI gets an amazing attack where they literally cook us with awesome looking lightning, while we fling a few *********** (excuse my french) pebbles at them! When I use telekinetic throw (which is Often, since it is The core ability of my DPS sage) i basically feel like a kid throwing sand at my nemesis in the sandbox, while just waiting to get slammed in the face by his shovel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letsjet Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I HATE the rocks, especially in a spaceport. I'm changing classes b/c of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanos Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) 100% enthusiastic bump for this thread. Thorough, concise and constructive analysis. My enthusiasm isn't based so much on the animations as such but rather on missalignment between Sorcerers and Sages, although I am certainly not a fun of pebbles. I love project animation though, especially when I pull an Astrodriod from the ground <3. My issue is the fact that shock deals instant damage upon cast whereas project waits for the animation to finish to deal damage. On my sorc shock even sometimes deals damage without the animation being shown at all, especially if i try to chain my skills. What the above means is I cannot rely on my project to interrupt a cap on time in a WZ whereas an Imp Sorc can. Quick fix for starters? Make project deal damage instantly upon cast, like shock does, and then let the animation play out. If evidence needs to be put forward (due to so many posts generated daily I haven't got the time to check has there already been any posted) I can fraps animations for Shock and Project on my lvl 50 sage and lvl 16 sorc. Just a general reminder if by chance this post reaches the eyes of a dev: all mirror skills should behave the same, no matter the difference in animation Edited January 20, 2012 by alanos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noleader Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I don't mind the damage delay in project since I actually turn it into a bonus for my Shadow. Casting buffed project and following it up with Force Breach .4 seconds later is nice for burst damage and you can catch a lot of healers by surprise. That being said I do wish the spells I use so often had more flash to them to go along with the elegent lightsaber attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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