Request to Change Project and Throw, with suggestions and examples…

[inseeisyou]

I like animations atm (not so much as lightnings ofc...) I hate only speed of project animation, Shock is just OP compared to project now...

But nice ideas, would like to see how it could look like ingame!

 

Yeah, see my sig.

 

Don't care about the animations so much, actually somewhat enjoy them, but anything that will bring Project in line with Shock I am all for. If we have to get some sort of Telekinetic push to make it so, then so be.

 

I for one would just be happy with the damage being done at the beginning of the animation.

[Anasazzi]

OK, sith sorcerer animations are FAAAAAR more cooler than ours. There is such a coolness gap between the mirror classes that it's just not fair. This is beyond class mechanics, it's the amount of satisfaction one has with their character/game.

 

After a few PvP games I had last night with the other team being mostly sith sorcerers, I am seriously considering rerolling to the sith side now just for their incredibly cool animations. I'm not exaggerating.

 

Either make telekinetic throw cooler, or introduce character migration to opposite faction, or give the characters the ability to change their ability animations in accordance with their dark/light side standing, that would be the best in my opinion.

[Nahela]

or give the characters the ability to change their ability animations in accordance with their dark/light side standing, that would be the best in my opinion.

 

That would be fantastic.

 

The issue I have with Project isn't in the animation, it's amusing, it's in the absolutely hideous amount of delay compared to the Inquisitor's mirror ability. There's just no reason for that.

[Anasazzi]

The only problem with it would be that if they were to actually introduce that incredible option, everybody would choose lightning animations because the other is soooooo bad in comparison. Everybody would go dark for the animations obviously..

 

So in any case, they just have to make a cooler light side animation.

[Dyvim]

OK, sith sorcerer animations are FAAAAAR more cooler than ours. There is such a coolness gap between the mirror classes that it's just not fair. This is beyond class mechanics, it's the amount of satisfaction one has with their character/game.

 

After a few PvP games I had last night with the other team being mostly sith sorcerers, I am seriously considering rerolling to the sith side now just for their incredibly cool animations. I'm not exaggerating.

 

Either make telekinetic throw cooler, or introduce character migration to opposite faction, or give the characters the ability to change their ability animations in accordance with their dark/light side standing, that would be the best in my opinion.

 

That is truly an excellent idea...why not have your light/dark faction impact your ability animations. That has the potential to be brilliant, if done right, and would go a long way to reinforcing the concept that your choices matter in the game, since they would affect the very nature and appearance of your abilities as a force user.

 

But for it to work, the abilities need to be TRUE mirrors of each other AND the lightside animations have to be "cooler", more jedi like, and get away from the fred flintstone chunk a rock theme that BW has married themselves to, so inexplicably. But there are problems with the idea...I dont think they would go for it because of the importance of facton identification in pvp...although you never know, since lightsaber color is now tied to your light/dark faction.

 

Anyway, its intriguing to think about. But as you say, in any case, these animations need work, which is the point of the whole thread.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I think it would be interesting to combine project and forcequake animations into a new forcequake. You have two little cyclones next to you while you are "quaking" but I think it would be just as cool to have the objects come up and fly into the kill zone during the channeling. On a couple of conditions...one that they become environmentally appropriate...that way fans of chunk a clunker would still get to see their beloved animation, and it would make a little more sense, and make for an incredbile forcequake.

Edited January 12, 2012 by Dyvim

[jedi-outcast]

I fully support the OP's concept to move away from debris tossing abilities and move towards environmentally neutral force-energy type animations.

 

If you are going to hurl environmental objects, then those objects ought to come straight from the environment you are currently in, or else it should not be done at all. Jedi are not conjurers, they are manipulators. It surprises me that conceptually these animations have made it this far through game development as there is no logical defense against the immersion breakers they are.

 

Check out the telekinetic powers from DC Online's mentalist for an example of how this was done right. In that game, if you were standing next to a bus you could literally hoist it up into the air with your mind and hurl it at your opponent.

 

And to the poster who brought forth the imagery of peppering an enemy with a stream of pebbles (TK Throw) while standing next to other players who are firing off blasters and other futuristic weaponry, well it's just so true. We brought pebbles to a gunfight. What's the point?

[aritha]

I want the tumult animation in pvp. No more no less. That is just my dream.

[Dyvim]

I fully support the OP's concept to move away from debris tossing abilities and move towards environmentally neutral force-energy type animations.

 

If you are going to hurl environmental objects, then those objects ought to come straight from the environment you are currently in, or else it should not be done at all. Jedi are not conjurers, they are manipulators. It surprises me that conceptually these animations have made it this far through game development as there is no logical defense against the immersion breakers they are....

 

Very well said. They "cheated" with the animations by having stuff magically appear. The elder star wars games, like DF2:Jedi Knight, did it better because the debris to throw was included as part of the level design. That is when it works, and looks cool, on the DARKSIDE of course...lol. But obviously those games are much simpler than this one, so they cheated. The cheat doesnt work. That and they are obsessed with rocks...

[Anasazzi]

This topic should NOT drop below the first page imo.

 

WE WANT A RESPONSE!

[Adam_C]

I agree. I feel pretty ashamed throwing a pebble storm at a Sith Sorcerer that's blasting me with arcs of lightning.

[Kozor]

At least Telekinetic Sages get some cool animations, Shadow-only animations are downright terrible. FEEL THE POWER OF YELLOW!

[Jackbooten]

Funfact: The animation that the OP is proposing, at least for Project, is already in the game whenever you blow up an Explosive Crate as a Jedi, or when you blow up the little welding points on the door after the robot in Eternity Vault (this is where I noticed it, since you're out of combat and do it over and over). It looks exactly like what you have in mind, and has an animation timer very similar to Shock's.

 

I propose those animations be switched for Project's, at the very least. TK Throw can stay as is until they find the time to rework it, but this change of animation for Project hold a much more mechanically relevant reasoning.

 

Lulz@Bioware for missing the point entirely.

[Mkhail]

Where is Force Breach in all of these discussions? So many people are so passionate about the Project and TT animations, but hardly any mention of how truly awful Force Breach is.

 

Personally I like the Project animation. The impact of the boulder slamming into an enemy is just so satisfying; especially when Upheaval kicks in. TT is pretty bad though. It looks like it would be more annoying than painful. And Force Breach is barely even noticeable. And when I do see it, it just makes me mad at how stupid it looks.

 

Also, Double Strike (and Thrash for Sin) sucks. The animation needs to change as you spam it. It should build into a more dramatic flourish as you use it.

 

I like the OPs ideas on the changes, even for Project. I don't really get the argument that throwing objects goes against Jedi canon though. Maybe you don't see it happen often in the movies, but that doesn't mean its in the Jedi rule book that they can't do it. I understand that's how you interpret it, but I don't think its a set rule.

 

And you guys seriously need to calm down lol. It's just a difference of opinion.

[Dyvim]

Where is Force Breach in all of these discussions? So many people are so passionate about the Project and TT animations, but hardly any mention of how truly awful Force Breach is.

 

Personally I like the Project animation. The impact of the boulder slamming into an enemy is just so satisfying; especially when Upheaval kicks in. TT is pretty bad though. It looks like it would be more annoying than painful. And Force Breach is barely even noticeable. And when I do see it, it just makes me mad at how stupid it looks.

 

Also, Double Strike (and Thrash for Sin) sucks. The animation needs to change as you spam it. It should build into a more dramatic flourish as you use it.

 

I like the OPs ideas on the changes, even for Project. I don't really get the argument that throwing objects goes against Jedi canon though. Maybe you don't see it happen often in the movies, but that doesn't mean its in the Jedi rule book that they can't do it. I understand that's how you interpret it, but I don't think its a set rule.

 

And you guys seriously need to calm down lol. It's just a difference of opinion.

 

Well, Im not saying they can't do it. What I am saying, is that given you see darkside/sith do it the most, it is not something that I would expect to see the jedi force casting class BASED on...throw and project are the bedrock skills of sage and to a lesser extent shadow.

 

They are used throughout the life of the class and are involved in numerous talents...So can jedi do it, yes. Do they typically do it...no. Yoda threw somethingback that was thrown at him. Anakin, well Anakin is a special case. So, is it the kind of signature, jedi only, you see it and think JEDI move that the class should be based on...no. Simply no. Especially since it has been a darkside trait in the classic, signature jedi knight games. BW can do better. They are obsessed with rocks and junk. It is inelegant at best. Sith get to melt people with lightning...jedi throw junk? Droid parts? rocks? pebbles? really? You see that and think JEDI? I don't. I think generic fantasy shaman.

 

Its just like the jedi cc lift versus the sith cc...the sith cc whirls the victim around in a zephyr, with lightning coursing through it. One look at that and you go, yeah, that would immoblize me and take me out of the fight as you are spinning around helplessly. The jedi cc just lifts you in the air...so what, i could still shoot you or whatever...at least lift them in the air and turn them upside down and shake them or something...lol

 

And I completely agree with your assessments of breach, etc.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Dyvim

[Dyvim]

Funfact: The animation that the OP is proposing, at least for Project, is already in the game whenever you blow up an Explosive Crate as a Jedi, or when you blow up the little welding points on the door after the robot in Eternity Vault (this is where I noticed it, since you're out of combat and do it over and over). It looks exactly like what you have in mind, and has an animation timer very similar to Shock's.

 

I propose those animations be switched for Project's, at the very least. TK Throw can stay as is until they find the time to rework it, but this change of animation for Project hold a much more mechanically relevant reasoning.

 

Lulz@Bioware for missing the point entirely.

 

This is brilliant. I think I actually have some screenshots of that skill/animation, if not I can get 'em....it would need to be beefed up a little, just a little I think, but certainly it would work and is a one handed, jab type animation, as I recall...I'll have to look on my other comp and post em if I have em.

 

TYVM

Edited January 14, 2012 by Dyvim

[Ashanor]

Agreed. Project and Throw are HORRIBLE animations. They are the absolute worst thing about the Sage and even to a lesser extent the Shadow. I think these animations are actually part of the reason there are less sages on a percentage basis than there are sorcerers. It's not like you can stop using them eventually either. Shadow is stuck with project forever (especially infiltration spec) and Sage is stuck using both for the most part.

 

Please change them. Make them look cool. Throwing debris and tossing pebbles is NOT cool. My suggestion for project is the same as the OP suggestion. A quick force push like animation with a small burst of light on the person being attacked. My suggestion for throw is a wave of force swirling through the air (think a solar flare of force energy). I think these would fit the class better than the current animations. Make it so Bioware!

[Dyvim]

OK, here are a few shots of the current "force activate an explosive container" animation. I like it because it is quick, one handed, and jedi-ish. So in other words, the toon animation is great, the actual particle effect for the "force" kinetic effect or projectile could use a small amt of tweaking. That way, if you beefed it up a bit, you could still leave the current, milder version in place for container exploding, and it truly wouldnt matter and there would be no confusion. But I could even go with it as is and be infinitely happier than what we have with chunk a clunker now....The toon animation for this effect kind of reminds me of an Iron Man-like repulsor blast, and if you think of what jedi do with force kinetic attacks, it really does fit the same kind of idea....Stark's hand repulsors were meant as flight stabilizers but their force could also be used as a projectile blast to knock targets on their butt, etc. So it is a non-lethal, defensive kind of weapon.

 

It is kind of a mild version of Disturbance in that it shoots a small quantum of force with a force like trailing effect behind it. I think you could beef this up a bit, and it would be very nice. And of course everyone has seen this, or can view it readily at your nearest batch of npcs that are dumb enough to stand next to an explosive container...lol

 

Screenies:

 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/651/forceproject.jpg/ Great Toon animation...

 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/408/forceproject1.jpg/ The projectile effect itself needs a little more uumph, but is instant, and superior to shock since you really can see where it is coming from...someone mentioned earlier that people were un happy that shock looked alot like the inquisitor stun-style cc. There is no way this we could confused with the consular stun...

 

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/507/forceproject2.jpg/ Again, the projectile effect isnt the best right now, it is fairly tame, but it is still cool and a great place to start from considering the toon animation is already there....

 

BTW, the whispy solar flare type animation for Throw is a really cool idea by the above poster, Ashanor. If you didnt go with pulsed force kinetic waves during the channeling, that would definitely be a cool alternative. Thanks folks, pls keep the ideas coming.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Dyvim

[Thatguypa]

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. I really like the way the sage plays. My friends and I knew we wanted to be republic, because being the lower population faction on a pvp server is always better for queue times and world pvp, but the animations for Telekinetic Throw and Project were what kept me from rolling this class in the first place.

 

I rolled Scoundrel heals, but after a while realized I really didnt like the class and rerolled to Sage. I am trying to look past these animations for the time and hope that they change in the future. The OP's suggestions are amazing. I would absolutely enjoy playing much more if I was looking at animations like the ones suggested over the ones in the game.

 

Also, on a side note, how did nobody at Bioware bring up the fact that Consulars still throw rocks and clay pots and crap when they are on star ships? Where do these rocks come from? Where did this clay goblet/cup come from?

[Anasazzi]

I cannot agree with you more. I love the class but the satisfaction I would get from the class would increase exponentially if we had cooler animations.. Right now I frown when I use telekinetic throw and project.. They're not cool.. they're funny and just out of place.

[Jackbooten]

I can't emphasize how much I want this change to occur. And I also don't believe for a second that it will. This is exactly the kind of stupid, ridiculous oversight design choice that MMO development teams are known for. Everything is there to make this simple change that would profoundly affect the class, and yet, they probably will never make it.

 

Unless Bioware wants to be the first MMO company to actually listen for a change? Let's wait and see.

[iinnate]

honestly real pvpers don't care about how pretty the animation is. BUT THE PROJECT ANIMATION LAG MUST BE FIXED.

withe the 3 second project animation lag :

1. you cannot insta hit cappers, and u always lose in mirror nuke match

2. it does not track stealth units once its fired (people use vanish ability with 4% life left on me all the time and my rock just glitchout midair after initiated)

3. delayed trigger to secondary talents/abilities

4. there is no real advantage to que up burst with project, since sage dot breaks all mez effect all the time, the real advantage of project is not practical

 

the different kind of object u can pull up is cool BUT THE ABILITY IT SELF IS COMPLETELY GIMPED IN PVP compare to inquisitor shock. is bioware refusing to change it cuz they dont want those fancy animaton to goto waste? or do they seriously believe the perceived advantage in project lag is practical? im so frustrated with this lag that im about to quit the game

[BladeStrike]

I rolled Consular to help balance faction numbers. I chose a Consular mainly to help the game and yet I get punished for it with mediocre animations (and story ). I guess I should have been more selfish and played it as a single player game...

 

"Reroll Inquisitor!" I shouldn't have to, plus I'm 50 now (I gave it a chance but it slowly ate away at me). Its not right that one of the mirror classes had so much more effort put into it than the other. You could say visuals don't matter...to you...but then you see that Project actually works differently than its mirror ability. How did that happen...

Edited January 14, 2012 by BladeStrike

[Bankingclan]

I like these ideas, but Im not quite in love with them yet.

I think your theory for the project animation could use some work, personallly not my cup of tea, however I truly understand the ludicrously of pulling asteroids through the floors of starships (what if they managed to make it situational? - i.e. you throw metal in a ship, rocks on a tythonian ridge etc. Also, if the damage occured before the animation was complete to make it instant, that would be a huge bonus.) I like the ideas of throw more. I was thinking something like a more powerful looking version of the mage's cone of cold (right name?) in wow, but at a longer range and channeled. Maybe some debris could still be seen in there too. On the other hand, I am currently very happy with telekinetic throw's animation.

 

My biggest qualm is that I wish these changes were here from the beggining, then I could be more used to them, it's so easy to fall in love with throwing rocks, even if some of the animations don't make sense. It's kind of like someone telling you that you cant't keep your childhoos pet because he costs too much money ;(

[Anasazzi]

I don't think there has been another topic where 99% of the posts agree with OP and want the change to occur.

 

wink wink at devs

[Thatguypa]

honestly real pvpers don't care about how pretty the animation is. BUT THE PROJECT ANIMATION LAG MUST BE FIXED.

withe the 3 second project animation lag :

1. you cannot insta hit cappers, and u always lose in mirror nuke match

2. it does not track stealth units once its fired (people use vanish ability with 4% life left on me all the time and my rock just glitchout midair after initiated)

3. delayed trigger to secondary talents/abilities

4. there is no real advantage to que up burst with project, since sage dot breaks all mez effect all the time, the real advantage of project is not practical

 

the different kind of object u can pull up is cool BUT THE ABILITY IT SELF IS COMPLETELY GIMPED IN PVP compare to inquisitor shock. is bioware refusing to change it cuz they dont want those fancy animaton to goto waste? or do they seriously believe the perceived advantage in project lag is practical? im so frustrated with this lag that im about to quit the game

 

Get off your high horse about being a real pvper. I bet you are not very good and that people who are far better players than you will ever be would like to see this change.