Zorrah Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I am indeed saddened by the news. Dual speccing was lame in WoW too. I did it just to try it out, and I really only wound up switching specs like once or twice in that whole time I was dual specced anyway. Also, it's worse in this game. Due to the companion system, tanks and healers hold their own a lot better and are actually really effective. Have you ever tried playing a warrior in WoW with a priest following you around? Nothing can stop you. Even in the beta, nothing could stop that combo. Now, all sith Juggs, Sorcerers, Assassins, Operatives, Mercs and Powertechs ALL have that combo. Why would you need your DPS tree to farm. To top that off, so far, tanks and healers have more competative DPS than they did in Vanilla WoW (which was the last time dual specs actually were necessary). Even worse, it promotes Ninjas. I'm a true blue tank that may have his DPS spec, but never really switches to it because I think dual speccing is lame. Along comes a flash point, I happen to pick up another of my same advanced class. He's a DPS version of that class, but has a dual spec with a tank, because he's got schizophrenia. The tank piece that I've been waiting to drop, that may even be the sole reason I agreed to this particular instance in the first place drops, and he says, "Well, it's fair game for me to roll Need because I do have a tank spec and I might tank some day. Even though I suck as a tank, so I have to be overgeared to do it, and the only way to get overgeared for content like that is to steal from the hard working real tanks. Thanks for the Drop you've been trying to get all month, I'll put it to good use someday... Maybe" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zangaboing Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Let's copy WoW...but we'll be subtle...we'll introduce things that have proven to be popular over a long period of time to mask the fact that we are a blatant copy that has failed its task at copying. So its bad to add features that many people are asking for and will actualy help improve the wait times for flashpoints/operations? As well as give people the ability to enjoy both pve and pvp without having to respec 3-4 times a day? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayfax Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I am indeed saddened by the news. Dual speccing was lame in WoW too. I did it just to try it out, and I really only wound up switching specs like once or twice in that whole time I was dual specced anyway. Also, it's worse in this game. Due to the companion system, tanks and healers hold their own a lot better and are actually really effective. Have you ever tried playing a warrior in WoW with a priest following you around? Nothing can stop you. Even in the beta, nothing could stop that combo. Now, all sith Juggs, Sorcerers, Assassins, Operatives, Mercs and Powertechs ALL have that combo. Why would you need your DPS tree to farm. To top that off, so far, tanks and healers have more competative DPS than they did in Vanilla WoW (which was the last time dual specs actually were necessary). Even worse, it promotes Ninjas. I'm a true blue tank that may have his DPS spec, but never really switches to it because I think dual speccing is lame. Along comes a flash point, I happen to pick up another of my same advanced class. He's a DPS version of that class, but has a dual spec with a tank, because he's got schizophrenia. The tank piece that I've been waiting to drop, that may even be the sole reason I agreed to this particular instance in the first place drops, and he says, "Well, it's fair game for me to roll Need because I do have a tank spec and I might tank some day. Even though I suck as a tank, so I have to be overgeared to do it, and the only way to get overgeared for content like that is to steal from the hard working real tanks. Thanks for the Drop you've been trying to get all month, I'll put it to good use someday... Maybe" I agree -- I kinda liked it better when toons had a set, consistent role. That said, it does make life a helluva lot easier if you enjoy both PvP and PvE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darkcerb Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Inb4 anything wow did is the harbinger of the end times....oh far, far to late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I agree -- I kinda liked it better when toons had a set, consistent role. That said, it does make life a helluva lot easier if you enjoy both PvP and PvE. You still can only have 1 role at a time, even with dual specs. And you can already respec your character whenever you want with a trip to the fleet anyway. So nothing changes except it's more convenient now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I really wish this came out with release to make leveling and instancing easier, there were too many DPS and not enough tanks/healers while leveling. Oh well, at least they are moving in the right direction. Definately no to the AC change but they need to do something to make leveling the other AC more interesting. Leveling the exact same story/linear quests is not something I will ever do. Maybe if you reached a certain legacy level you could start the other AC out at level 20 or something. Just something ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Dual Spec is coming and it is only a matter of time. Pretty exciting. I for one am all for this idea, I'm just hoping people stop complaining that they can't change their advanced class. It just doesn't make sense whether there is a story or not involved, if you want to change to the other advanced class make a new guy! Daniel Erickson: We have no plans for switching advanced classes - which we see as fundamentally different class designs- but dual spec is in the works and coming soon. From this thread: http://www.swtor.com/blog/community-qa-feb-10th-2012 <-- read it You can make no logical argument to preclude AC changing bur allow dual spec'ing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) You can make no logical argument to preclude AC changing bur allow dual spec'ing. They play completely different core mechanics from what I've heard. We shouldn't be arguing over AC, we should be blaming Bioware for putting in advanced classes. They couldn't afford the voice acting so instead of making an additional 8 stories they decided to cram the classes together. Really big mistake. Edited February 11, 2012 by Touchbass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaxRendar Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 You can make no logical argument to preclude AC changing bur allow dual spec'ing. Well then... I'm glad that BioWare is "illogical" in the exact same way as myself (and many others) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 They play completely different core mechanics from what I've heard. We shouldn't be arguing over AC, we should be blaming Bioware for putting in advanced classes. They couldn't afford the voice acting so instead of making an additional 8 stories they decided to cram the classes together. Really big mistake. They share the same base attacks. A Sentinel and Guardian have ~half the same attacks. They can't be "different" mechanics, not really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyIommi Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Sales figures disagree. Sales figures also tell me 50 cent is the best thing in music ever. Yep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 You can make no logical argument to preclude AC changing bur allow dual spec'ing. You can already change your spec whenever you want, so nothing new's actually being added. It's just being made easier. No such comparison exists for ACs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Sales figures also tell me 50 cent is the best thing in music ever. Yep. Except that he doesn't even make the list of top ten albums, which sorta wrecks whatever point you were trying to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 You can already change your spec whenever you want, so nothing new's actually being added. It's just being made easier. If it already exists, it wouldn't need to be added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 If it already exists, it wouldn't need to be added. Come back when you figure out what this conversation is about, ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qonor Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I was just about to post asking if this game had plans to get dual-specs, and then I caught this post. Ha, General forums actually being useful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyIommi Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Except that he doesn't even make the list of top ten albums, which sorta wrecks whatever point you were trying to make. Oh really? He was just an example. Let's take the current all time best sellers music wise. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums I suppose someone would argue that Ac/Dc is really good music. Some people.. some people Oh look at that the bodyguard soundtrack... TOP QUALITY all of them... I will admit pink floyd is on their but the hard and fast rule that money is an indicator of quality is poor. Pushpin is not equal to poetry. Edited February 11, 2012 by TonyIommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creedon Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Let's copy WoW...but we'll be subtle...we'll introduce things that have proven to be popular over a long period of time to mask the fact that we are a blatant copy that has failed its task at copying. Yes.. Because WoW is the center of the universe and was the first 'real' MMORPG ever designed. You ARE the weakest link. Personally i think its a much needed requirement. Being able to have a PVE and PVP spec is a nice to have. Also for those that tank or heal, can easily change roles if required. Edited February 11, 2012 by Creedon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Touchbass Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 They share the same base attacks. A Sentinel and Guardian have ~half the same attacks. They can't be "different" mechanics, not really. I thought they were completely different in core mechanics. If that's the case then there should be one. Maybe that's why they didn't make a separate class then to begin with. Cheap move on Biowares part then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Come back when you figure out what this conversation is about, ok? It's ok just to say, "yeah, you're right" and move on. It won't hurt. I promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I thought they were completely different in core mechanics. If that's the case then there should be one. Maybe that's why they didn't make a separate class then to begin with. Cheap move on Biowares part then. They share the same abilities on tab, and have unique one on another. That's why it makes no sense to just stop at dual spec'ing. That best that folks have offered up, so far, is "WoW doesn't do it!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Oh really? He was just an example. Let's take the current all time best sellers music wise. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_albums I suppose someone would argue that Ac/Dc is really good music. Some people.. some people Oh look at that the bodyguard soundtrack... TOP QUALITY all of them... I will admit pink floyd is on their but the hard and fast rule that money is an indicator of quality is poor. Pushpin is not equal poetry. Again, we see someone confusing his own tastes with an objective view of something. Those sales figures DO mean that the general public, on average, considers those albums quality music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dayfax Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) You can already change your spec whenever you want, so nothing new's actually being added. I know. It's mostly a flavor thing, but constraints make things more interesting. If respec'ing is a gold sink that nobody does casually, then deciding to change your role -- say going from heals to DPS -- is tantamount to completely changing your very identity, because your spec is as much a part of who you are online as your avatar and character name. There are a lot of advantages to quick & easy spec changes in game (certain boss fights, PvP, tc), but some part of this makes me think that easier isn't always better. Especially in a game whose major selling point is having multiple alts. I guess part of what bothers me about this is that the major reason for implementing it is because WoW did, and that alone is a good enough reason. I dunno. Is it? Edited February 11, 2012 by Dayfax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyIommi Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 (edited) Again, we see someone confusing his own tastes with an objective view of something. Those sales figures DO mean that the general public, on average, considers those albums quality music. Interesting except that this conversation cannot have an objective view. Even if you wan't to argue that sales figures somehow mythically translate into an measure of quality (they don't btw you can ask van gogh about that) it is still not objective. You could say that because warcraft sold 50 million copies of X when it implemented Y then all those people were off the opinion that Y was a quality feature of the game. Not something you can prove like you could gravity or quantum physics. Also notice that the biggest rise in warcraft sales and subscriptions occured in TBC before dungeon finder before it was even thought about it. Edited February 11, 2012 by TonyIommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I know. It's mostly a flavor thing, but constraints make things more interesting. If respec'ing is a gold sink that nobody does casually, then deciding to change your role -- say going from heals to DPS -- is tantamount to completely changing your very identity, because your spec is as much a part of who you are online as your avatar and character name. There are a lot of advantages to quick & easy spec changes in game (certain boss fights, PvP, tc), but some part of this makes me think that easier isn't always better. In this case, the mentor adds nothing but inconvenience. My gameplay is not made better by needing to go there and then needing to redo my hotbars. If YOU feel that your identity is tied up in your spec, you are free to refuse to use the dual spec feature when it goes live. Nobody will force you to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts