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Balance Juggernauts with other tanks


Baerik

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Presently don't have an assassin to compare with, but the discrepancy between Juggernaut tanks and Powertech tanks in terms of damage dealt/threat generated and overall mitigation is just straight up ridiculous.

 

The Powertechs, if specced correctly and have their 4 piece, of even just Tionese gear, get: 5% mitigation from Ion Gas Clyinder, 2% from their 4 piece, 2% from "Ion Screen" talent and 2% from the "Power Armor" Talent for a grand total of 11% full on mitigation. Combine that with their talent "Combust" which lowers the damage dealt to them by their attacker by 4% we now arrive at a 15% total.

 

Ion gas cylinder provides a 60% increase in their armor total, however they also have a talent to increase their armor by a further 16%.

 

Furthermore, the Ion Gas Cylinder provides a 15% passive chance for their shield to proc, and then they have 2 talents which increase their shield chance by a total of 12% for a combined total of 27%. They also have the talent "Ablative Upgrades" which increases their absorbtion total by 6%.

 

Juggernauts, however, do not have the same myriad of tools We get 6% reduced damage for being in Soresu and our Dark blood talent increases our Elemental and Internal damage reduction by 4%. So even if we do a fight that is just Elemental and Internal damage the most we get in pure reduction is 10% vs 15%. Jugg 4 piece increases the active shield we get from Force scream by 20% (20% of a low number, is still a pretty low number) considering the tooltip merely says "a moderate amount of damage" it's hard to give specifics but I've seen hits of about 2.5-3k go fully absorbed. We receive no armor bonus beyond Soresu putting us 16% behind Powertechs, and we gain 4% shield chance due to talents plus the passive 15% putting us 8% behind Powertechs on passive shield chance. Juggs also do not possess a talent to increase their absorbtion amount. We do receive a 6% passive defense and 6% active defense increase upon using retaliation, but since defense is a chance, whereas Damage reduction is guaranteed the two just really don't compare.

 

Now before anyone else posts and gets all uppity about how Jugg threat is fine... consider this, We pulled a champion mob, I was the only one attacking for the first 30 seconds, and then our Powertech started in, within 20-25 seconds of him starting his attack he had pulled threat... sorry but that is absolutely imbalanced and needs a fix. Juggs have 1 ability with +threat on a minute.

 

Please Bioware, do not be prudeish like Blizzard and maintain that you want PVP and PVE to be balanced together... it just doesn't work, one side will always suffer if you try and keep those two realms together. Shear all spells, give them one effect and one cooldown in pvp and then a different set in pve. This honestly doesn't even require much, but Backhand for PVE should be 30-45 seconds tops, and for PVE since we know there would be crocodile tears, it's probably best to keep it on the cd it's on.

 

However, I would argue that Juggernaut CC abilities pump up people's resolve bars wayyy too far in PVP to justify the cooldown associated with them. Force push incurs a 75% fill on the resolve bar, Backhand is about 60%, Force Choke is 75% and Fear is about 50%. 2 of those and boom the bar is full and now you have no control. Take a Sith Inquisitor for example, their "ground pound" knockback only fills the resolve bar 33%.

 

Our pushback is on a minute cooldown and incurs 75% their pushback is 33% and on a 20 second cooldown. The pure fact that they can knockback twice within such a short time frame and STILL not fill our resolve bar is stupid.

 

TL/DR: 1) Balance juggernauts to other tanks, either pump us up or knock them down, don't care which but something needs to happen.

2) Seperate PVE and PVP, that way if you need to rebalance an ability because you feel it's underperforming in PVE we won't spend 2-3 weeks with that newly buffed ability just destroying PVP, or vice versa.

3) Fix resolve building, it makes no sense for longer cooldown abilities to fill up resolve bars at a higher amount than lower cooldown abilities.

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I agree. I have two tanks. One is a jugg and the other is a bh. The bh is an order of magnitude easier to play toon. Seriously. The jugg is 31 and the bh is 29. Both are full points in their respective trees. The bh has way more stand in the midst of guys and absorbing hits than the jugg.

 

In terms of play style, I try to keep the jug mobile with force leaping and pushing. ie. avoid damage by leaping to new opponents, but eventually you get all mobs/players on you and you just can't stand the beating like the bh can.

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What needs to be fixed, first and foremost, is the PvP tank stats in general. In my opinion, their benefit pales in comparison to the benefits a DPS will get with their PvP stats.

 

I suggest this post by Taugrim on his site. Sure, you're not a Vanguard, but this link is how tank stats work - if you're going with actual tank sets in PvP, this might let you understand how the stats affect (or don't really affect) what happens to you.

 

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/19/understanding-swtors-avoidance-and-mitigation-mechanics-for-tanks-in-pvp/

 

I'm a BM-geared Tank Sin - and for the most part, I'd say a Jugg is pretty hardy in terms of survivability, but I've yet to play one personally.

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Actually well played Shadow/Assassin's from the limited knowledge I have are doing extremely well, it's more about CD management and popping the right stuff at the right time.

 

The differences between the other 2 are far and away different. The best example I have is Fabricator in Karagga's Palace on Nightmare mode. When tanking this boss, I would receive 4 stacks of the armor reduction debuff and healers were straining to keep me alive, the power tech could take up to 8 or 9 before it was a problem for healers and it stacks up to 10 and goes no further. I'm having to pop CDs at considerably lower times than the BH, it shouldn't be that large of a discrepancy. Granted each tank needs to be different... if they aren't then it's no fun, but the differences right now are detrimental to overall gameplay and enjoyment.

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