Gunslinger's in PvP you must be joking

[Killalott]

Surge nerfing= -10% of critical's magnitude = not +6000 dmg with 670+ expertise = need more surge via armoring mod ehehehe Edited February 10, 2012 by Killalott

[Selout]

Surge nerfing= -10% of critical's magnitude = not +6000 dmg with 670+ expertise = need more surge via armoring mod ehehehe

 

Lol, if you really have 670+ expertise, then you aren't getting crit by a gunslinger for 6000+ or you're doing something wrong.

[Killalott]

Lol, if you really have 670+ expertise, then you aren't getting crit by a gunslinger for 6000+ or you're doing something wrong.

 

i talk theoretically after surge nerf, atm i can score over 6000 dmg but not always and not vs heavy armor/high expertise pg.

[Torcer]

I feel a bit bad for Gunslingers – I have no idea why BioWare put Tanks in PvP and then designated Gunslingers as the only class that Tanks can actually Tank. There’s a reason why almost every Warzone these days is some Combination of Sorcs and Pyroteks/Mercs. It’s pretty clear that the Rock/Paper/Scissor that Bioware intended with its Melee/Ranged/Force/Tech attack system failed as implemented – Melee and Ranged are at a clear disadvantage to Force/Tech. Itemizing Resists on PvP gear in order to mitigate Force/Tech’s overwhelming damage advantage is a potential fix.

[Efir]

I wish there were more Gunslingers in PVP, they suck solo; but if you assist them with guard or heals, they can obliterate the other team.

 

This is the best post in this thread.

 

I play slinger, if i am supported, we rip the opposition a new one. If you play slinger or sniper, you have to have to play as a team. Trying to solo is a waste of pixels!

[Kane_Mkvenner]

Ditto. Tried sharpshooter through into the mid 40's and finally tested dirty fighting, then sabo. Funny thing is, I switched to get more mobility. Instead I find nothing more amusing than running into the middle of the action, hitting cover, hunker down, defensive screen, scrambling field, and burning everything around me.

 

Yea mobility is great with sab build. I forgot about hunker down, but yea pop all those and you're basically a stonewall for a few seconds give or take. Xs freighter flyby is another good way to have people flee like rats when the knockback is down as well.

[Kyrandis]

mmmm buffs. I personally enjoy the class. Tbh its a lot more mobile then people think(atleast as Marksman[Left tree]).

 

But the problem is why play a pure DPS class when you can play a hybrid healer- put out slightly less damage for the ability to LoS and heal without having to break combat.

 

The best warzone atleast for me is Voidstar, with huttball second, and aldzergaan last. In huttball we can't carry the ball as well as others. But atleast we can control mid and act as roadblocks.

[cedarghost]

I'm not saying that the class is seriously underpowered by any means but they pale in comparsion to most other classes.

 

They were intended to be a high dmg range dps class, but they got none of the tools any other class dedicated to dps has.

 

Unlike the scoundrel/operative they have no heals, vanish or run speed escape basically no way to escape multiple targets focus fire and with weak armor and almost NO defensive skills one stun is the end of them.

 

I'm not saying that they can't be a deadly or viable BG force but only when everyone pretty much ignores them.

 

All of their dmg rolls off weapon and kinetic which means it's absorbed by armor, they have only 1 armor debuff at 20% and there dirty fighting talent rely's on low dmg dots to bypass armor and requires setup time they don't have.

 

The margin for error and reaction time needed is higher then any other class and giving a range class one stun that requires 4 meter range is a joke. Otherwise their forced to rely on flash grenade to save their lives and when there highest dps build is dirty fighting and dot aoe's the targets, this is just silly.

 

It just seems like this class was not given very much attention in consideration to pvp and lacks the synergy most other classes have.

 

"Unlike the scoundrel/operative they have no heals, vanish or run speed escape basically no way to escape multiple targets focus fire and with weak armor and almost NO defensive skills one stun is the end of them." Yes, we do. We have dodge and defensive screen, also my gs is so talented at kicking you in the nards that he gets a run speed increase afterwards..... 0.o But seriously, ANY class that gets focus-fired is toast. It's just a question of how quickly the toast gets burned...

 

"I'm not saying that the class is seriously underpowered by any means but they pale in comparsion to most other classes." I don't think we are underpowered, just harder to play. You have quite a few tools in your tool box, but you have to know when to use them and use them ALL....

 

Seriously, I like to play my GS, because it holds my constant attention when I pvp. If I use all my tools I usually top the charts. I come out on top in 1 vs. 1 a little better than 50% of the time, or I run away....lol. I very rarely can kill a good healer. That is how it should be, imo. If I don't use the tools I was given, I am usually toast. I don't want a class I can bind half my attacks to one side of the keyboard and half to the other side then roll my face back and forth across the keyboard and come out on top in a fight.

Edited February 10, 2012 by cedarghost

[LenrocNewDawn]

My lvl 30 gunslinger that is a joke alt is my most vicious class. I can get 300k damage in a warzone, while eating an apple. I've done that, snipers and gunslingers are so easy to play. Sure if i get mobbed there is little I can do to stop people. But I can do even less on my 50 sentinel. It isn't even comparable. I can hit a person for around 9k easy like clockwork, as long as I time it right.

 

I suppose a lot of people don't know how to play, but I barely play my smuggler but when I do warzones I absolutely lay waste. I wish I felt so powerful on my jedi, that is the one thing I hate the most. I feel more like a jedi on my slinger than I do my sentinel.

 

Now that's how you TROLL at a professional level. Good job, sir!

[ducksmyth]

ANY class that gets focus-fired is toast. It's just a question of how quickly the toast gets burned...

 

Other classes have vanishes or sprints.

If you dont have these you have heavy armor.

If you dont have vanish, sprint or heavy armor you are a sniper.

 

Who do you focus down for free kills?

[AstralProjection]

I've heard snipers/slings complain about this so often when they start out, but once they get decent pvp gear they start blowing up the charts every warzone and feel like the most powerful persons in the world.

 

It's just REALLY gear dependant.

 

( ALSO: Scoundrels are boring <-- rank 40, dont play it anymore )

 

This. Aside from being melee DPS Sentinel is very similar to gunslinger in terms of how it balances with the other class.

 

We scale VERY well with gear - you go from feeling sub par to feeling like a damage machine as your gear improves.

 

We are far more effective with someone healing us - Sentinels have a few more "tanky" abilities than gunslingers, but they need it a little more since they're in melee and not behind cover, and both improve drastically if a healer gives you a little love.

 

I love having a good Gunslinger on my team.

[Crowleyz]

They are quite awesome, just gotta know how to play them.

[VoidJustice]

The margin for error and reaction time needed is higher then any other class and giving a range class one stun that requires 4 meter range is a joke. Otherwise their forced to rely on flash grenade to save their lives and when there highest dps build is dirty fighting and dot aoe's the targets, this is just silly.

 

ROTFL

 

Roll a Jedi Knight bro...

[Guapos]

"I'm not saying that the class is seriously underpowered by any means but they pale in comparsion to most other classes." I don't think we are underpowered, just harder to play. You have quite a few tools in your tool box, but you have to know when to use them and use them ALL....

 

Seriously, I like to play my GS, because it holds my constant attention when I pvp. If I use all my tools I usually top the charts. I come out on top in 1 vs. 1 a little better than 50% of the time, or I run away....lol. I very rarely can kill a good healer. That is how it should be, imo. If I don't use the tools I was given, I am usually toast. I don't want a class I can bind half my attacks to one side of the keyboard and half to the other side then roll my face back and forth across the keyboard and come out on top in a fight.

 

I agree with this. Gunslinger (SS) is a difficult class to play, requiring a lot of instant cast abilities to be used in quick succession to maximise dps and energy efficiency. Ensuring u fire Trickshot in the short window following Charged Burst/Aimed shots. Ensuring u fire off energy efficient abilities like Cheap Shot when ur target is incapacitated. Needing to exit and enter cover to make Charged Burst instant cast. Plus a lot of abilities requiring you to enter cover first. Though true to some extent for all classes, in my experience setting up your power tray and keybinds is particularly important for a gunslinger. If all this is done right, I think burst from this class combined with its ample CC arsenal makes it as formidable as any other class in warzone PVP.

 

 

However, I'll admit that I do find its lack of any gap closing abilities, makes its usefulness in Huttball limited, where force speed, force leaps and pulls are gold. So I wouldnt want too many slingers in a huttball match - but the same applies to many other advanced classes.

[Formulka]

They are quite awesome, just gotta know how to play them.

 

we are indeed awesome and fun to play, GS just has a little steep learning curve

 

i was once in a game where there were 4 of us (yeah this exists and it was almost unfair to the other team of sorcs and mercs as we could pop anyone that closed in that 35m range in like 2 seconds flat (it was a huttball and we camped the platform on the mid)

felt like a firing squad, although should they have any tank that could jump us it would be lights out

// to clarify i dont feel like severly underpowered but we need some more reliable escape mechanism either few seconds of invisibility or increased speed burst to reposition easier (repositioning is our most dangerous moment as we lack even our small defensive bonuses we have on the move)

Edited February 10, 2012 by Formulka

[goskins]

People claiming gunslingers are fine that are sub 50 and sub 50 valor really shouldn't even bother posting.

 

Some things to consider:

I'm valor 58+, 550+ exp, full champ on helm of gruash as a slinger.

My aimed shot (2.5 cast time) does equal dmg to a tracer missle with a 1 second higher cast time (and none of the perks, like armor shred) and a cooldown, and less dmg than a force lightning.

 

Guy claiming to crit 4k with a new 50, without exp is lying off his ***. I crit ~2k against other medium/heavy armored people and 2.5k on light.

 

Any mobility with sabo/DF hybrids take 50+ energy to get off a single combo.

 

 

I can play my slinger well and am always carry my own on WZ, but if i were a sage with similar gear I would dominate not just carry my own.

[Killalott]

People claiming gunslingers are fine that are sub 50 and sub 50 valor really shouldn't even bother posting.

 

Some things to consider:

I'm valor 58+, 550+ exp, full champ on helm of gruash as a slinger.

My aimed shot (2.5 cast time) does equal dmg to a tracer missle with a 1 second higher cast time (and none of the perks, like armor shred) and a cooldown, and less dmg than a force lightning.

 

Guy claiming to crit 4k with a new 50, without exp is lying off his ***. I crit ~2k against other medium/heavy armored people and 2.5k on light.

 

Any mobility with sabo/DF hybrids take 50+ energy to get off a single combo.

 

 

I can play my slinger well and am always carry my own on WZ, but if i were a sage with similar gear I would dominate not just carry my own.

 

right, and more: 2,5 cast time is a basic time, i never cast it for more than 1,1-1,5 seconds: illegal mods + sharpshooter skill three (charged burst crit leave 1 second to aimed shot) decrease cast time to 1,1....

Edited February 10, 2012 by Killalott

[Guapos]

People claiming gunslingers are fine that are sub 50 and sub 50 valor really shouldn't even bother posting.

 

Some things to consider:

I'm valor 58+, 550+ exp, full champ on helm of gruash as a slinger.

My aimed shot (2.5 cast time) does equal dmg to a tracer missle with a 1 second higher cast time (and none of the perks, like armor shred) and a cooldown, and less dmg than a force lightning.

 

right, and more: 2,5 cast time is a basic time, i never cast it for more than 1,1-1,5 seconds: illegal mods + sharpshooter skill three (charged burst crit leave 1 second to aimed shot) decrease cast time to 1,1....

 

^ This.

 

Yes I wouldn't fire Aimed shot if the "Quick Aim" buff hasn't procced - reducing the activation time to 1.5 seconds. The loss of dps is very noticable. With my usual rotation using Smugglers Luck, Charged Burst, Speed Shot, and Rapid Fire, I find that Quick Aim is up just about 100% of the time I'm ready to fire Aimed Shot. If you're not doing this, then you aren't leveraging your burst potential.

 

The only exception is when I'm more interested in the Knock Back from Aimed Shot, when dps isn't so critical.

 

 

P.S.: Since its important to you goskins, I'm Valor 60+, and fully champion geared.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Guapos

[RattyRattail]

One rule about being a sniper... we don't talk about snipers.

[RattyRattail]

A good Marauder/Sentinel is the one thing that gives me headaches as a sniper.

[genesiser]

I enjoy my gunslinger in pvp until I fight a tank. Nothing like seeing my aimed shot go from hitting for ~2200 non crit down to 1300. I see so many shields, it makes me sad.

[Formulka]

I enjoy my gunslinger in pvp until I fight a tank. Nothing like seeing my aimed shot go from hitting for ~2200 non crit down to 1300. I see so many shields, it makes me sad.

 

^this is true, as supposedly the hardest hitting class, the magnitude of mitigation of our attacks is a little out of place

[Cluttered]

^this is true, as supposedly the hardest hitting class, the magnitude of mitigation of our attacks is a little out of place

 

Be careful saying that....You'll have DPS Mercs and Troopers coming out of the woodwork saying "who said you are supposed to be the hardest hitting DPS class"....While conveniently ignoring their heavy armor, greater mobility and heal.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Cluttered

[jayfourc]

Get some gear, switch to Dirty Fighting. Profit. Okay, not that simple, but hope the comments below can keep some of you gunslingers progressing a bit before completely giving up on all the fun I am having in PVP.

 

Disclaimer – I have not played the Saboteur tree because I’ve had so much fun and success with DF since hitting 50.

 

This is the build I use on Wyatt Earp - Corellian Run:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#700bZbIZGbbkrrhdhR.1

 

I'm valor 59, BM by next week, full champ gear on left, champ offhand, t2 pve mainhand, champ/rakata mix on the right. After 500 expertise you start hitting diminishing returns when selecting pvp gear versus equivalent pve gear, so the rakata subs make a lot of sense for me (our 4 piece bonus is kind of lame). Implants/earpiece typically sacrifices less of your primary stat for expertise. Relics only sacrifice endurance for expertise, so if you're starting out in PVP, I recommend getting those first.

 

Play-style and goals vary a bit depending on wz, but as a nasty DPS with heavy ranged spike damage and aoe dots, my priority is to help focus down healers/solo non-tanks/objective denial.

 

Yes, Dirty Fighting is heavy ranged spike damage. I haven't taken the time to read this entire thread because it's surprisingly long given how few gunslingers there are, but I've seen a couple of posts about how our DoTs get downplayed b/c of cleanse abilities so I want to address that first.

 

DoTs to kill - Our DoTs don't kill. Hemorrhaging Blast + DoTs + Wounding Shots kill. Our damage output is backloaded and depends on a very specific rotation, unlike sharpshooter, which opens up high, but can run into a lot of mitigation. Bleed damage is internal -> DF is tank killer/melts everything else. I usually won’t even try to use the above rotation for anyone under 6K HP because it would be wasting energy and dmg potential. Full potential in a ranged opening with a distracted opponent (healer trying to heal, tank/dps on our healers): Crit relic->hemo->shrap->vital->sabo->wounding->speedshot->quickdraw. Of course ideal almost never happens. It's up to you to use the your CDs properly in different situations (example - cutting off your wounding shots cast to interrupt a heal cast, or not wasting your energy on an enemy low enough for your teammates to kill).

 

DoTs as objective denier - Our DoTs are tiny. The only time I throw DoTs around individually is if I am outnumbered while protecting an objective. The extra seconds that your ticks buy your team can be critical. Defending a 1 v 4 on CW side point? Easy. Just DoT away, do as much dmg as you can and fly back with your DoTs still denying them the cap. If your defensive CDs are up, you can get in 2 cycles of this easily solo – plenty of time for help to get there.

 

Energy - unfortunately this is the highest energy use of all 3 trees meaning your consistency is severely handicapped if you don't have the gear. Once you get 35% crit and a crit relic, Fighting Spirit starts to pay off. Bravado from Sabo tree helps too, and if you have the PVE 2 piece bonus, the extra instant 10 energy every once in a while to get you to a higher recharge rate is not shabby. Judicious use of Cool Head is also needed. I try to save it for 1 v 1 or big fights where I throw out an XS. There will always be situations where spamming your basic attack is all you can do, or running away and recup.

 

Survivability/utility - between hunker down, pulse det, dirty kick, flashbang, leg shot, bubble, dodge trinket, and a ranged instant interrupt, we actually have a lot of survivability and utility if used correctly. This doesn’t mean you should run at other players gleefully cackling. Knowing your opponent and what they can do, as well as what to stay out of – I won’t expound on this as that’s a basic for any class based PVP. As DF you also have a lot more mobility than SS, but you still do have to go into cover sometimes to throw in a Sabo or speed shot or use your Hunker.

 

Skill points – To get the most out of DF, you need hemo. Most of the tree just logically flows, but I’ll point out a couple of choices I made that depend more on playstyle. I take Feelin’ Woozy for the slow to help with kiting/chasing or making larger fights more frustrating for melee. Dirty trickster sounds great, but it never worked when I specced into it, so I don’t. Per the above, Fighting Spirit is a must. I take Hold Your Ground instead of Quick Getaway because of the extra utility of more Pulse Detonators and the fact that situations where I get CC’d usually means I’ll die regardless (love the chain stuns). I debated between Sharpshooter and Independent Anarchy and have settled on IA. I just feel that the accuracy that Sharpshooter gives you can be acquired by gear a lot more easily than 15% increased dmg from Sabo and ALL AOEs. Getting a +3K crit on 3 out of 4 slow fools from my XS is a wonderful feeling. IA also makes adding that Sabo charge to my kill rotation worth the energy cost.

 

If you read all that, thanks and apologies for being wordy. I didn’t think I would respond to this thread but after reading a few posts I felt compelled to defend/promote gunslingers and DF in particular. In short, we are great if geared up and awesome if geared up and played well. Unfortunately the PVP in this game is designed so that playing well without gear is almost impossible – I feel sorry for anybody I run into in a WZ with less than 16K HP (clear indicator of not enough expertise gear). It’s an instant win unless they get heals. Sure, it might take me a little longer than a scoundrel scrapper, but I can sit back and pick them out of the crowd without risking my neck as much and move quickly to other targets.

 

Lastly, public service request for PVP:

 

PLEASE rebuff constantly. Don’t waste time looking to see if your teammates are need it. Just click the button while running around. I find it amazing how often I have to ask people to rebuff – 5% boost to your stats seems like a no-brainer.

[Keldaur]

 

Guy claiming to crit 4k with a new 50, without exp is lying off his ***. I crit ~2k against other medium/heavy armored people and 2.5k on light.

 

Any mobility with sabo/DF hybrids take 50+ energy to get off a single combo.

 

 

I can play my slinger well and am always carry my own on WZ, but if i were a sage with similar gear I would dominate not just carry my own.

 

He is lying, but so you are.

 

I got full champion some battlemaster. I crit for 4k on medium armor users, around 3k on heavy, and if i pop cd's i can get a 5,5k crit on light armor (got a 6,7k as my record today, followed by a 4,4k trickshot, of course on a sorc).

 

Problem isn't damage, you should use your class to use aimed always with 1.5s cast time, it's how the damage is dealt, some avoidance on the other team and we are ****ed up.

 

To be honest imho Deadeye/Imperial assassin should be 3/3 points (like most classes specs who only spend 2-3 points for their crit damage) and right beside it should be a talent to make our trickshot unavoidable, so we would get some assured damage instead of RNG fest, and a tool to use on right moments. Or go with the retarded 5/5 deadeye/imperial assassin but giving a 50% crit damage as it should per point spent.